Topic: Toyota's EV future

[rrocket]

EVs will lose money initially. Any new product/service loses money initially. It is built into the business model. Large companies have the financial tools to manage this and do this ALL the time when they introduce new products/services or even open new factories etc.

But they are less enthusiastic doing so for products that reach or interest a very small demographic.

Currently, EVs are 1%er vehicles due to their high price and home ownership requirement.

[Guy]

1 percenters? Come on Ron, 66.5% of Canadians live in an owner occupiers home.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/198969/home-ownership-rate-in-canada-since-2003/

High price? Yes a Taycan is expensive like most Porsche’s but there are plenty of used Bolts, Leaf’s that can be had for well under $30K.

No, there are not for everyone but to say you need to be in the 1% group to own one…   

BTW in 2019 one needed to be worth $6.3M to be considered a 1 percenter in Canada. With all the EV’s I see around here, there are far more millionaires than I ever thought. 

https://genymoney.ca/top-1-percent-net-worth-in-canada/#:~:text=That%20means%20according%20to%202019,Canadians%20have%20at%20least%20%246%2C300%2C000.&text=The%20cut%2Doff%20for%20the,this%20would%20be%20about%20%247%2C300%2C000.

I guess hyperboles are more sexy than facts..

[CSH]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/average-new-car-price-in-canada-now-tops-66k-1.6484764#:~:text=The%20Price%20Index%20Report%20of,cent%20increase%20over%20June%202022.


According to this average sale price is 66K
That gets into your base, long range Y and 3.So 4 cars. No wonder they are everwhere.

1% is for the S and X

[valuator]

1 percenters? Come on Ron, 66.5% of Canadians live in an owner occupiers home.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/198969/home-ownership-rate-in-canada-since-2003/

High price? Yes a Taycan is expensive like most Porsche’s but there are plenty of used Bolts, Leaf’s that can be had for well under $30K.

No, there are not for everyone but to say you need to be in the 1% group to own one…   

BTW in 2019 one needed to be worth $6.3M to be considered a 1 percenter in Canada. With all the EV’s I see around here, there are far more millionaires than I ever thought. 

https://genymoney.ca/top-1-percent-net-worth-in-canada/#:~:text=That%20means%20according%20to%202019,Canadians%20have%20at%20least%20%246%2C300%2C000.&text=The%20cut%2Doff%20for%20the,this%20would%20be%20about%20%247%2C300%2C000.

I guess hyperboles are more sexy than facts..

The wealth of most of those 66.5% living in owner-occupied homes is tied up in just that, home equity.  It's not like that's cash just sitting around, assuming you need a place to live.

A crazy proportion of Canadians are living one paycheque away from a tough financial spot...

Pointing to the average transaction price of new car is completely misleading, because a huge swath of the population can't afford a new car, period.  Let alone the average price of one.  The average Canadian is scouring Facebook marketplace, looking for something under $15k that has some life left in it. ...

[CSH]

While 66 seem to be a bit over the top 50+ is more realistic. 84/96m loans are extremely common

[PJungnitsch]

A crazy proportion of Canadians are living one paycheque away from a tough financial spot...

Pointing to the average transaction price of new car is completely misleading, because a huge swath of the population can't afford a new car, period.  Let alone the average price of one.  The average Canadian is scouring Facebook marketplace, looking for something under $15k that has some life left in it. ...

Not in Alberta, at least. Always amazed at how many driveways here sport a fancy new truck or SUV

The lots here are groaning with the weight of pickups in the $70,000 - $100,000 range, and plenty of SUV's are in that price area too

[WP v3.32]

the Upsidedown Major thread is due for a revival! !   Where is that buy that worked at Dodge... I miss his stories

[PJungnitsch]

While 66 seem to be a bit over the top 50+ is more realistic. 84/96m loans are extremely common

Local VW dealer sent me a 'sale' email offer for 96 months at 8.79% Ouch!

[valuator]

While 66 seem to be a bit over the top 50+ is more realistic. 84/96m loans are extremely common

Local VW dealer sent me a 'sale' email offer for 96 months at 8.79% Ouch!

Nothing quite like paying $24k in interest to buy a $60k vehicle 

[Woodrow]

A crazy proportion of Canadians are living one paycheque away from a tough financial spot...

Pointing to the average transaction price of new car is completely misleading, because a huge swath of the population can't afford a new car, period.  Let alone the average price of one.  The average Canadian is scouring Facebook marketplace, looking for something under $15k that has some life left in it. ...

Not in Alberta, at least. Always amazed at how many driveways here sport a fancy new truck or SUV

The lots here are groaning with the weight of pickups in the $70,000 - $100,000 range, and plenty of SUV's are in that price area too

Most of those people cannot afford those cars - they're purchased with debt.

The average cost of a new car is beyond the affordability of most people.

Many haven't clued in yet but standard of living in this country is going WAY DOWN.

[WP v3.32]

A crazy proportion of Canadians are living one paycheque away from a tough financial spot...

Pointing to the average transaction price of new car is completely misleading, because a huge swath of the population can't afford a new car, period.  Let alone the average price of one.  The average Canadian is scouring Facebook marketplace, looking for something under $15k that has some life left in it. ...

Not in Alberta, at least. Always amazed at how many driveways here sport a fancy new truck or SUV

The lots here are groaning with the weight of pickups in the $70,000 - $100,000 range, and plenty of SUV's are in that price area too

Most of those people cannot afford those cars - they're purchased with debt.

The average cost of a new car is beyond the affordability of most people.

Many haven't clued in yet but standard of living in this country is going WAY DOWN.

 Yes crisis coming and it wont be pretty.   The default rates on mortgages  and bad car loans  will be be drastic in the next 24 months. Then what will be the fix? Stimulus package to bail the big guys, print more money = worsened inflation.....

[ArticSteve]

This EV thing is quite amusing.  Current batteries are manufactured with minerals and refining processes that are horrendous to the environment in a large scale, not not mention child slave labour in Africa and political prisoner labour in China, all that completely ignored by purchasers.  We know who you are. 

These current EV batteries a junk.  When that changes EVs will take off.  Why not?

Biden wants 50% of all passenger cars sold in the US to be EV by 2030 on lithium.  That 6 1/2 years away.  Just lent Ford 9 Billion for 2 battery plants.  So it's moving forward, but wrong tech.

[Seafoam]

A crazy proportion of Canadians are living one paycheque away from a tough financial spot...

Pointing to the average transaction price of new car is completely misleading, because a huge swath of the population can't afford a new car, period.  Let alone the average price of one.  The average Canadian is scouring Facebook marketplace, looking for something under $15k that has some life left in it. ...

Not in Alberta, at least. Always amazed at how many driveways here sport a fancy new truck or SUV

The lots here are groaning with the weight of pickups in the $70,000 - $100,000 range, and plenty of SUV's are in that price area too

Most of those people cannot afford those cars - they're purchased with debt.

The average cost of a new car is beyond the affordability of most people.

Many haven't clued in yet but standard of living in this country is going WAY DOWN.

 Yes crisis coming and it wont be pretty.   The default rates on mortgages  and bad car loans  will be be drastic in the next 24 months. Then what will be the fix? Stimulus package to bail the big guys, print more money = worsened inflation.....

Yes , and meanwhile  my wife just received her first bribe cheque from the feds for  the carbon tax.

[rrocket]

High price? Yes a Taycan is expensive like most Porsche’s but there are plenty of used Bolts, Leaf’s that can be had for well under $30K.

We're talking about new cars. And there are no "cheap" EVs.

And yes, people own houses. But they need to have that disposable income to buy an EV in addition to owning a home. You really think that's 66 percent of consumers? I don't.

Fine..I'll switch it to 5%er. Which, in Canada, is $130k income. Which is what you'd need to be making to buy a new EV without doing financial gymnastics.

Again...I know your head is in the sand about this (a little) but EVs are not affordable to many. And I know "affordability" is the top complaint in virtually every poll about people who were "interested" in an EV but bought something else.

There's a reason Civics, Corollas and Elantras are the best selling cars in Canada....

[Guy]

High price? Yes a Taycan is expensive like most Porsche’s but there are plenty of used Bolts, Leaf’s that can be had for well under $30K.

We're talking about new cars. And there are no "cheap" EVs.

There's a reason Civics, Corollas and Elantras are the best selling cars in Canada....

Yup, and the Bolt is in #4 spot YTD in Canada. Probably the Model 3 is the real #4 but Tesla does’nt report market specific numbers.

https://driving.ca/column/driving-by-numbers/canadas-best-selling-cars-trucks-suvs-2023

[rrocket]

High price? Yes a Taycan is expensive like most Porsche’s but there are plenty of used Bolts, Leaf’s that can be had for well under $30K.

We're talking about new cars. And there are no "cheap" EVs.

There's a reason Civics, Corollas and Elantras are the best selling cars in Canada....

Yup, and the Bolt is in #4 spot YTD in Canada. Probably the Model 3 is the real #4 but Tesla does’nt report market specific numbers.

https://driving.ca/column/driving-by-numbers/canadas-best-selling-cars-trucks-suvs-2023

Wonder what percentage of those Bolts were sold in Quebec?

Interesting the Bolt isn't even in the Top 25 of sales in the USA.

Which has me thinking the success here is tied to tasty Quebec bribes?

[Guy]

Most of Bolts are sold in Quebec, no argument.

The US customers don’t like small cars, no wonder the Bolt don’t do well there.

Look at the C&D figures for first 6 months of 2023. Model Y is in 4 spot overall, after 3 pick up. Selling more than CRV’s or Rav4’s!

Model 3 in 11th spot overall, number 2 spot for cars behind the Camry.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/

[rrocket]

Most of Bolts are sold in Quebec, no argument.

The US customers don’t like small cars, no wonder the Bolt don’t do well there.

Look at the C&D figures for first 6 months of 2023. Model Y is in 4 spot overall, after 3 pick up. Selling more than CRV’s or Rav4’s!

Model 3 in 11th spot overall, number 2 spot for cars behind the Camry.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/

Again...all tied to bribes.

In some jurisdictions, you can get a Y for $20k in the US. In those same jurisdictions, it's cheaper to buy a Prius Prime than the hybrid model.

EVs need bribes to sell. Data has borne this out. In Ontario sales tanked 60 percent when bribes went away.

[revalations]

Lol at the model Y selling more than Rav4’s and CRV’s…….two crossovers that happen to be extremely hard to find on dealers lots, there’s waiting lists for the RAV4 2 years out! 

Hard to stay in top sales charts with no inventory to sell!

[revalations]

Most of Bolts are sold in Quebec, no argument.

The US customers don’t like small cars, no wonder the Bolt don’t do well there.

Look at the C&D figures for first 6 months of 2023. Model Y is in 4 spot overall, after 3 pick up. Selling more than CRV’s or Rav4’s!

Model 3 in 11th spot overall, number 2 spot for cars behind the Camry.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/

Again...all tied to bribes.

In some jurisdictions, you can get a Y for $20k in the US. In those same jurisdictions, it's cheaper to buy a Prius Prime than the hybrid model.

EVs need bribes to sell. Data has borne this out. In Ontario sales tanked 60 percent when bribes went away.

We had bribes in BC too. No PST on EV’s, that’s a 12% savings. Hard to ignore on a expensive list vehicle. Not sure if that bribe is still in effect.