Topic: Tranny drain and fill on Fiat 500

[Slow_lane]

We have a 2015 Fiat 500C that we want to keep for a long time. It has 83,000 kms. I want to bring it in for a oil change, coolant flush and a change of tranny fluid.

The trouble is the transmission has no pan and is not really built to be serviced. It is "Lifetime" fluid. Lifetime means it is good until the tranny fails  . From what I have found out there is a drain plug and a hole to refill tranny somewhere in the upper back. It seems in draining you can only get about half the the fluid out. I am pretty sure that even changing half the fluid might help things but it is not prefect. One guy I found on internet did his drain and fill 3 times. He said the fluid was black in 1st 2 drains. I am getting this done at my local indy shop. Having it done 3 times is expensive both in labour and in the tranny fluid.

I am not having tranny issues. So should I just get 1 drain and fill and leave it at that. Knowing that 50% of the old stuff will be mixed with the new stuff.

Pretty nervous about this. My mechanic is great but not sure if he can figure out this Fiat 500. I have not talked to him about it yet. He might have some great advice for me as well.

[EV Dan]

Even one drain and fill will likely benefit a tranny, based on my experience with the Hyundai RWD 8 spd unit. Did it late in its life and it started shifting noticeably smoother which lasted for another 2 years.
I guess the trick there is to set the level right which takes a special procedure and equipment. Many on youtube just drain-measure-fill which works for as long as fluid temps are the same.
What fluid do you plan on using and what does the manual suggest?

[Slow_lane]

I have read in a few spots that Valvoline Max Life ATF is fine to use and it is a lot cheaper than OEM.

I have also read somewhere about having to purchase a special dipstick to confirm proper level.

[marcus_go]

Single drain and fill is common. Hondas have been like that for quite a while, and I am sure there are other manufacturers that have a similar service procedure. Having said that, if you want a more complete fluid change you are going to have to do it more than just one time. You could just do a drain and fill over the next few oil changes. That would likely exchange a lot of the fluid out.

[EV Dan]

I have read in a few spots that Valvoline Max Life ATF is fine to use and it is a lot cheaper than OEM.

I have also read somewhere about having to purchase a special dipstick to confirm proper level.

Used it in an old Hyundai 4 speed one with good results. The jug has a long list of trannies it's supposed to work for. Cheap at walmart.

A dipstick would make things so much easier provided there is one for your particular car.

[JohnnyMac]

Why does only half the fluid drain out?  Is the plug above the half way point of the pan?  Can you put a tube in there and suck more of the fluid out? 

If not, I would just do half the fluid this year and just do it again the next year and then every few after that.

[rrocket]

Why does only half the fluid drain out?  Is the plug above the half way point of the pan?

Much of the fluid will be inside of the torque converter, lines, cooler, etc

[EV Dan]

I have read in a few spots that Valvoline Max Life ATF is fine to use and it is a lot cheaper than OEM.

I have also read somewhere about having to purchase a special dipstick to confirm proper level.

Used it in an old Hyundai 4 speed one with good results. The jug has a long list of trannies it's supposed to work for. Cheap at walmart.

A dipstick would make things so much easier provided there is one for your particular car.

So I watched a utube of a guy changing ATF in this (I guess) Fiat. Pretty straightforward. Like most modern sealed slush boxes, it has a drain plug with a plastic overflow tube in it which is used to set the fluid level. No extra dipsticks requited. Any mechanic who's done it before should be able to set the level, regardless of what makes and models they are familiar with.
This can even be DIY'd but the whole car needs to be lifted up and be level front to back and side to side. Two sets of ramps might do the trick. Getting to the fill hole is a b!tch though 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGGzt-sD_dA

[Slow_lane]

I have read in a few spots that Valvoline Max Life ATF is fine to use and it is a lot cheaper than OEM.

I have also read somewhere about having to purchase a special dipstick to confirm proper level.

Used it in an old Hyundai 4 speed one with good results. The jug has a long list of trannies it's supposed to work for. Cheap at walmart.

A dipstick would make things so much easier provided there is one for your particular car.

So I watched a utube of a guy changing ATF in this (I guess) Fiat. Pretty straightforward. Like most modern sealed slush boxes, it has a drain plug with a plastic overflow tube in it which is used to set the fluid level. No extra dipsticks requited. Any mechanic who's done it before should be able to set the level, regardless of what makes and models they are familiar with.
This can even be DIY'd but the whole car needs to be lifted up and be level front to back and side to side. Two sets of ramps might do the trick. Getting to the fill hole is a b!tch though 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGGzt-sD_dA

Well that was encouraging. I thought the overflow tube would allow excess fluid to come out until prefect level is reached. It seems logical that that is the purpose of it being there. But then later in video it shows the guy removing battery (and more) just to access fill point. Then goes on to show that OEM dipstick is required to check level. He also says required levels vary based on temperature of fluid. Yikes!!!

Anyways I will talk to my indi about this and see what he thinks. I sure hope he feels confident about being able to do this.

After the feedback I am pretty sure what I have decided to do.  I will get this done once (changing out about 50% of fluid) and then maybe next year do another change.  It will be interesting to see what fluid coming out looks like. Maybe I will buy enough Valvoline Max Life ATF to do both changes.

[EV Dan]

Well that was encouraging. I thought the overflow tube would allow excess fluid to come out until prefect level is reached. It seems logical that that is the purpose of it being there. But then later in video it shows the guy removing battery (and more) just to access fill point. Then goes on to show that OEM dipstick is required to check level. He also says required levels vary based on temperature of fluid. Yikes!!!

The "dipstick" is completely unnecessary in this case. The overflow tube is there to drain excess of fluid, usually on a running engine and after the tranny is put through gears, the car obviously up in the air. Every mfg will specify a certain ATF temp at which the level should be set via this tube. Most mechanics don't bother with extra equipment and just plug the drain when the level feels about right. 

[Slow_lane]

Just popped into Chrysler / Fiat dealer and talked to service rep about tranny fluid change. He says that instead of drain and fill, they have a machine that can suck most or all of the fluid out with a tube and then refill it.

The cost was $500 plus tax. He claimed it takes 8 liters of ATF at $45 a pop. My research shows that the Fiat on take 6.2 liters.

It would be nice to get a complete fluid change vs partial but I am not sure if I am confident in what I am being told.

[EV Dan]

Just popped into Chrysler / Fiat dealer and talked to service rep about tranny fluid change. He says that instead of drain and fill, they have a machine that can suck most or all of the fluid out with a tube and then refill it.

The cost was $500 plus tax. He claimed it takes 8 liters of ATF at $45 a pop. My research shows that the Fiat on take 6.2 liters.

It would be nice to get a complete fluid change vs partial but I am not sure if I am confident in what I am being told.

Depends on what they are really going to do. From your description it sound like they will sucks out as much fluid as they can with a tube (half the volume?) and fill it through the same hole.
For $500 service I'd expect to find this kind of machine involved:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyIBbPvxCwc
(rainman ray's)

[Arthur Dent]

I did something similar on an Rx-7 years ago. Just need a suction pump to get it out. There are cheap manual ones like this.


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w54156?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwk96lBhDHARIsAEKO4xbZtCQ4mQYiEm9XrEWuMMsZnYqw6t4diX9FZyyvHaxf9Z2un7du7ZQaAkn-EALw_wcB

[rrocket]

Just popped into Chrysler / Fiat dealer and talked to service rep about tranny fluid change. He says that instead of drain and fill, they have a machine that can suck most or all of the fluid out with a tube and then refill it.

Yep, have seen these in use.

Machine has one side for new fluid, one side for clean.

Sucks it out and replenished it. Typically done while car is running so transmission is pumping the fluid too. If car is equipped with tranny cooler, they'll often disconnect one of the connections and plug into there.

Something like this

https://youtu.be/qJKFcCgKpUE

[rrocket]

. Just need a suction pump to get it out. There are cheap manual ones like this.

You aren't getting the fluid out of the torque converter, lines, cooler, etc with that.

 Out of the pan though?  Absolutely.

[Slow_lane]

Initially the service rep seemed a little perplexed by the request. I was surprised by that. He went in back to talk to parts/service guys and came back with answer. He claims virtually all fluid will be extracted.

I was really just fishing for information. But was somewhat considering letting them do it just because I would expect them to be more familiar with process.

But ....
- I do not really trust dealers. IE: they may claim a complete change when in reality it is only 50%. Or worse say they did it and do nothing at all. 
- They are super expensive.
- The exaggerated the amount of fluid required. 8 liters vs 6.2. You would think they should know that.
- With an indi mechanic I am hoping I could use Valvoline max that is $44 for 5 liters at Walmart. That is 5 liters for the cost of 1 at dealer!

Wanted to discuss with my indi yesterday but he was busy preparing for vacation shutdown and not back till 07 August.

I really want to get this done at some point to help with the longevity of our little Fiat.

[rrocket]

Initially the service rep seemed a little perplexed by the request. I was surprised by that. He went in back to talk to parts/service guys and came back with answer. He claims virtually all fluid will be extracted.

I was really just fishing for information. But was somewhat considering letting them do it just because I would expect them to be more familiar with process.

But ....
- I do not really trust dealers. IE: they may claim a complete change when in reality it is only 50%. Or worse say they did it and do nothing at all. 
- They are super expensive.
- The exaggerated the amount of fluid required. 8 liters vs 6.2. You would think they should know that.
- With an indi mechanic I am hoping I could use Valvoline max that is $44 for 5 liters at Walmart. That is 5 liters for the cost of 1 at dealer!

Wanted to discuss with my indi yesterday but he was busy preparing for vacation shutdown and not back till 07 August.

I really want to get this done at some point to help with the longevity of our little Fiat.

It's POSSIBLE the dealer is clueless if the transmission had "lifetime" fluid in it.

Most people wouldn't get this done if that's the case.

Also...PM sent.

[Slow_lane]

Just and update

I am finally getting around to doing this transmission fluid dump and fill. Reviewed with my indi yesterday. He confirmed that the standpipe tube on drain plug will allow fluid to drain off to proper level with car running and warmed up. He is not even going to use the difficult to access fill hole that is located way down beside fire wall. He is simply going to fill from bottom. He will put in a little more than came out and ensure some drains off and then put in smaller plug.

Hard to find example of this being done but below is a refill procedure done on a Mini. The Mini's plug also has a tube. The tube of plug is referred to as a riser or a standpipe.

The refill Procedure is shown at about 11:50 of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5CNDQZmKlg&t=728s

Due to be done on 11 June. Based on condition of fluid he will determine how many times he thinks this procedure should be done as it each dump only get 3 liters of fluid out.

[Slow_lane]

Well the drain and fill was done. It was and interesting (and stressful experience).

1st Drain and Fill

When the first drain and fill was done the fluid was a very dark brown. That convinced me (and my mechanic) that another drain and fill would be needed as we were changing out just 3 of 6.6 liters. My indi shop ended up refilling the tranny from the top hole. They did not fill from bottom and rely on"Stand Tube" to set proper level. I am not sure why they opted to do it this way. So they were setting level purely by pouring back in the same amount that came out.

This made me concerned. Could they have spilled some when draining? Could they have drained warm fluid and put in cold fluid? Then the cold fluid will expand to a higher level. I just did not feel comfortable at all about this.

2nd Drain and Fill

After the first drain and fill I found this information in Fiat repair Manual.

MoparŪ AW1 when new is red in color. The fluid is dyed red so it can be identified from other fluids used in the vehicle such as engine oil or antifreeze. The red color is not permanent and is not an indicator of fluid condition. As the vehicle is driven, the ATF will begin to look darker in color and may eventually become brown. This is normal. MoparŪ AW1 also has a unique odor that may change with age. Consequently, odor and color cannot be used to indicate the fluid condition or the need for a fluid change.

So the dark brown color of fluid drained may mean nothing. So based on this I decided that I would have a 2nd drain and fill done and stop there. After doing it twice my fluid would be about 70% new. At 87,000 kms it was good enough for me.

To make sure the fluid level was correct I bought a dipstick. This way the level could be correctly validated and I would rest easier. I think my mechanic was happy to have it as well.

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08YYLVTB7?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

So that is that. The tranny feels good. I used to feel a very slight bump when coming to a stop when tranny went back into 1st gear. That is gone and overall I find the shifts are smoother. Very happy.

So at next oil change will be a coolant change and maybe an brake fluid flush.

[PJungnitsch]

Interesting they sell dipsticks for that type of thing on Amazon, would not have thought to look!