Topic: The car market is turning.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Suburbans and Tahoes with the diesel engines sell the fastest off dealer lots!!

GM’s full-size SUVs are unique for their segment in offering a diesel engine option, and sales figures for the 2024 Chevy Tahoe and 2024 Chevy Suburban show it’s the vehicles that cradle the 3.0L I6 LM2 turbodiesel Duramax engine that are the fastest-turning on dealership lots.

This means that Chevy Tahoe and Chevy Suburban units that are motivated by the turbodiesel engine are the ones that spend the shortest amount of time on the lot before being purchased.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/04/heres-the-fastest-turning-chevy-tahoe-suburban-engine-on-dealer-lots/

And the new LZ0 diesel engine with more hp and torque for the 2025 model year:

GM plans to continue offering a diesel engine for both the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban into the 2025 model year. However, the 2025 Chevy Tahoe and 2025 Chevy Suburban will get the 3.0L I6 LZ0 turbodiesel Duramax engine instead of the current LM2, boosting horses by 10 percent to 305 horsepower and torque by 7.6 percent to 495 pound-feet. The LZ0 was originally debuted on the Chevy Silverado 1500.

I mentioned it before, but a good buddy of mine bought a Silverado Trail Boss with the L70 diesel.  On a recent highway trip, he averaged 7.5L/100km.  For comparison, that's what I do with my 4-cylinder CX-5.  Insane! 

he's also had three check engine lights for emissions related stuff in the two months that he's owned it.  He says he'll enjoy it while he has warranty coverage, then dump it after. 

[HeliDriver]

Just got back from the States and noted that diesel and gas were pretty much the same price everywhere. Makes the diesel SUVs even more of a no-brainer down there.

I don’t pay too much attention up here, but seems like diesel is usually around $0.20 more per liter. I still want the diesel, but sure makes it harder to justify.

[ktm525]

Just got back from the States and noted that diesel and gas were pretty much the same price everywhere. Makes the diesel SUVs even more of a no-brainer down there.

I don’t pay too much attention up here, but seems like diesel is usually around $0.20 more per liter. I still want the diesel, but sure makes it harder to justify.

Currently we are around $0.05 diff the last time I checked so not bad.

What is the difference in maintaining prices?

[bridgecity]

For a good part of the winter there was a $0.40/L difference.

[ktm525]

For a good part of the winter there was a $0.40/L difference.

One needs an overhead farm fuel tank and buy when diffs are tight!

[warp]

Diesel is more expensive than gasoline during winters because the refinery process to extract diesel runs along with heating oil for which there is demand in winter. That is not the case in summer so that part of fractional distillation in refineries can run exclusively for diesel during the summer, hence greater supply and lower summer prices. In Ontario at least, right now, prices are the same, about 165/liter for both.

[warp]

Suburbans and Tahoes with the diesel engines sell the fastest off dealer lots!!

GM’s full-size SUVs are unique for their segment in offering a diesel engine option, and sales figures for the 2024 Chevy Tahoe and 2024 Chevy Suburban show it’s the vehicles that cradle the 3.0L I6 LM2 turbodiesel Duramax engine that are the fastest-turning on dealership lots.

This means that Chevy Tahoe and Chevy Suburban units that are motivated by the turbodiesel engine are the ones that spend the shortest amount of time on the lot before being purchased.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/04/heres-the-fastest-turning-chevy-tahoe-suburban-engine-on-dealer-lots/

And the new LZ0 diesel engine with more hp and torque for the 2025 model year:

GM plans to continue offering a diesel engine for both the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban into the 2025 model year. However, the 2025 Chevy Tahoe and 2025 Chevy Suburban will get the 3.0L I6 LZ0 turbodiesel Duramax engine instead of the current LM2, boosting horses by 10 percent to 305 horsepower and torque by 7.6 percent to 495 pound-feet. The LZ0 was originally debuted on the Chevy Silverado 1500.

I mentioned it before, but a good buddy of mine bought a Silverado Trail Boss with the L70 diesel.  On a recent highway trip, he averaged 7.5L/100km.  For comparison, that's what I do with my 4-cylinder CX-5.  Insane! 

he's also had three check engine lights for emissions related stuff in the two months that he's owned it.  He says he'll enjoy it while he has warranty coverage, then dump it after.

Fuel economy is undoubtedly great with the diesels, but reliability is a question mark. Those check engine lights are a recurring feature with the LM2 engines as well with a friend who owns one says that he shuts down the engine and restarts and it mostly goes away, sometimes he has to do a start/stop twice!! Also, as far as I know, emission control equipment is not covered by the powertrain warranty which is typically longer than the bumper to bumper warranty of 3/4 years & 60,000/80,000 km. So my reading is that if there are emission issues beyond the bumper to bumper warranty, you are on your own.

The much discussed oil pump belt in these engines is another grey area. With the LZ0 it is supposed to be good for 320,000 km, but good for 320,000 km is not the same as covered by a warranty. Also, it could be defined as a wear item and so may not be covered by any warranty!! At best it will be covered by the bumper to bumper warranty, so either 3 0r 4 years and 60K/80K kilometers. That's awfully low to be facing a potential multi thousand dollar repair bill.

[ktm525]

Do they still require horse ? Is that a significant cost?

[warp]

Do they still require horse ? Is that a significant cost?

You mean DEF fluid? That's not expensive, at Canadian Tire it's about $25 for ~10 liters, DEF tank capacity is about 20 liters on these engines and under normal use it should last till your next service i.e. at least 10,000 km.

[WP v3.32]

Do they still require horse ? Is that a significant cost?

You mean DEF fluid? That's not expensive, at Canadian Tire it's about $25 for ~10 liters, DEF tank capacity is about 20 liters on these engines and under normal use it should last till your next service i.e. at least 10,000 km.

 I think it's more about the complexity of the system and the chances of components breaking.  When those DEF system came out I decided to stay away from diesel and I'm glad I did after owning 3.   Unless they are super reliable or  you need one for constants towing, I don't see the use for diesel anymore.  Hybrid is the new diesel.

[JohnnyMac]

If you guys are talking about that 6 cylinder diesel that is/was in the GM trucks, I actually just met with a woods worker who had one for a bit.  He said it was absolutely amazing fuel economy, but the endless amount of issues was so bad that the last time it left him stranded and he took it to the dealer he just asked how much he'd get on trade in for a regular gas 1500 Silverado.  He told me that others in his family have them and they all have issues.  One of the big ones that he said happens a lot is if you do a short drive with it, typically it won't start right after.  So if you just jumped into your truck to run to the store, and it's only down the street, you'd either have to keep the truck running, or risk it not turning back on when you come out of the house.

At this point in time, I don't think any modern diesel vehicles make much sense if you plan on keeping them past their warranty, and even then the amount of issues might push you to giving up on the vehicle.  Which is a shame because older diesels were so reliable, efficient, and could pile on the miles.

[WP v3.32]

If you guys are talking about that 6 cylinder diesel that is/was in the GM trucks, I actually just met with a woods worker who had one for a bit.  He said it was absolutely amazing fuel economy, but the endless amount of issues was so bad that the last time it left him stranded and he took it to the dealer he just asked how much he'd get on trade in for a regular gas 1500 Silverado.  He told me that others in his family have them and they all have issues.  One of the big ones that he said happens a lot is if you do a short drive with it, typically it won't start right after.  So if you just jumped into your truck to run to the store, and it's only down the street, you'd either have to keep the truck running, or risk it not turning back on when you come out of the house.

At this point in time, I don't think any modern diesel vehicles make much sense if you plan on keeping them past their warranty, and even then the amount of issues might push you to giving up on the vehicle.  Which is a shame because older diesels were so reliable, efficient, and could pile on the miles.

inline 6 mini duramax?   I know someone that just bought a used one.   

[PJungnitsch]

Which is a shame because older diesels were so reliable, efficient, and could pile on the miles.

Well, sorta. The inline 6 Cummins in the Dodges was always good AFAIK, the Italian Ecodiesels have been terrible, the V8 GM Izuzu Duramax was pretty good, and Fords attempts ranged from good to absolutely awful

Even the good ones could get really expensive. I had a co-worker who loved his Duramax until about 200,000 when it cost him an arm and 2 legs. Everything associated with a diesel seems to be horribly expensive

[JohnnyMac]

If you guys are talking about that 6 cylinder diesel that is/was in the GM trucks, I actually just met with a woods worker who had one for a bit.  He said it was absolutely amazing fuel economy, but the endless amount of issues was so bad that the last time it left him stranded and he took it to the dealer he just asked how much he'd get on trade in for a regular gas 1500 Silverado.  He told me that others in his family have them and they all have issues.  One of the big ones that he said happens a lot is if you do a short drive with it, typically it won't start right after.  So if you just jumped into your truck to run to the store, and it's only down the street, you'd either have to keep the truck running, or risk it not turning back on when you come out of the house.

At this point in time, I don't think any modern diesel vehicles make much sense if you plan on keeping them past their warranty, and even then the amount of issues might push you to giving up on the vehicle.  Which is a shame because older diesels were so reliable, efficient, and could pile on the miles.

inline 6 mini duramax?   I know someone that just bought a used one.

That's the one.  I've heard horror stories about the Ram 6 cylinder diesel engine and now the GM, but I've yet to meet anyone who had the Ford 6 cylinder diesel in their F150.  Unlikely it's any better.

[revalations]

The few people I know with the 3.0 duramax love them. They did have the extended cranking issues which were resolved. Can’t remember if it was software related or mechanical. I’ve also seen the “oil belt” after 150,000 miles and there was next to nothing for wear on it. A few YT videos out there showing this. What I have seen/heard about is timing chain stretch, throw a cam/crank correlation code and that can a some serious $$ to fix. Many think it’s the ridiculously thin oil GM recommends for this engine causing premature chain failures.

Myself I really miss my big diesel. Towing with a gas engine just doesn’t come close. I don’t miss the thought of a big repair bill though.

[OliverD]

Myself I really miss my big diesel. Towing with a gas engine just doesn’t come close. I don’t miss the thought of a big repair bill though.

Is that really still the case these days though? It seems that even in the HD trucks the gas engines are becoming more common, particularly the Ram 6.4 and the Ford 7.3. I'm sure for the biggest loads the diesel is still the way to go but I would think that these new gas engines cover more towing use cases than before.

[Fobroader]

Do they still require horse ? Is that a significant cost?

You mean DEF fluid? That's not expensive, at Canadian Tire it's about $25 for ~10 liters, DEF tank capacity is about 20 liters on these engines and under normal use it should last till your next service i.e. at least 10,000 km.

 I think it's more about the complexity of the system and the chances of components breaking.  When those DEF system came out I decided to stay away from diesel and I'm glad I did after owning 3.   Unless they are super reliable or  you need one for constants towing, I don't see the use for diesel anymore.  Hybrid is the new diesel.

Anything new needs to be deleted, after the cold snap this winter and the amount of problems with DEF freezing, nope, no thanks. Pull all that emissions garbage out and maybe, but stock, naaahhh, not worth the headaches.

[ktm525]

The few people I know with the 3.0 duramax love them. They did have the extended cranking issues which were resolved. Can’t remember if it was software related or mechanical. I’ve also seen the “oil belt” after 150,000 miles and there was next to nothing for wear on it. A few YT videos out there showing this. What I have seen/heard about is timing chain stretch, throw a cam/crank correlation code and that can a some serious $$ to fix. Many think it’s the ridiculously thin oil GM recommends for this engine causing premature chain failures.

Myself I really miss my big diesel. Towing with a gas engine just doesn’t come close. I don’t miss the thought of a big repair bill though.

Big derestricted diesels opened my eyes. Could tow all day at 75 MPH without breaking a sweat. This rig towing that trailer put down better fuel economy numbers  than my empty Ridgeline 

[Fobroader]

Nothing pulls like a well tuned big diesel, I've been in a few and even with a big 5th wheel/skid steer, they are still shockingly fast.

[bye]

Nothing pulls like a well tuned big diesel, I've been in a few and even with a big 5th wheel/skid steer, they are still shockingly fast.

Had a rented F150 Lightning last year to tow 7500 lb trailer, nothing pulls like 580 HP + and instant torque.