Author Topic: The car market is turning.  (Read 98271 times)

Offline Allen

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #660 on: December 23, 2023, 09:15:09 am »
VMR calculates $19.5K wholesale for a 2017 3.5i Premium

Offline ktm525

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #661 on: December 23, 2023, 11:01:27 am »
VMR calculates $19.5K wholesale for a 2017 3.5i Premium

Is this as is or less reconditioning costs?


Offline Dante

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #662 on: December 23, 2023, 11:29:34 am »
The VMR, KBB seem to be quite off from asking prices on Autotrader, Kijiji...

I was wondering what these actually go for at the auction.

Offline revalations

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #663 on: December 23, 2023, 12:30:19 pm »
They sell between $19,500-22,500 at wholesale auction. So the VMR numbers aren’t far off. National average is $17,722

Offline Dante

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #664 on: December 23, 2023, 01:23:02 pm »
They sell between $19,500-22,500 at wholesale auction. So the VMR numbers aren’t far off. National average is $17,722

I mean retail numbers. This is why I'm m curious what auction/wholesale real prices are. So wholesale is quite accurate which is good to know.Thanks for checking.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2023, 01:25:00 pm by Dante »

Offline Dante

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #665 on: December 23, 2023, 01:48:26 pm »
So, here's an example....

http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-60598384

VMR: $13,500 (W) / $16,250 (R) - adjusted for province (6%) and rounded off

Asking: $22,500

So what would be a hypothetical offer in this example?
Thinking  $19,500?

Offline ktm525

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #666 on: December 23, 2023, 01:56:25 pm »
So, here's an example....

http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-60598384

VMR: $13,500 (W) / $16,250 (R) - adjusted for province (6%) and rounded off

Asking: $22,500

So what would be a hypothetical offer in this example?
Thinking  $19,500?

It better be fully reconditioned not just run through the car wash.


Offline Dante

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #667 on: December 23, 2023, 02:00:05 pm »
So, here's an example....

http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-60598384

VMR: $13,500 (W) / $16,250 (R) - adjusted for province (6%) and rounded off

Asking: $22,500

So what would be a hypothetical offer in this example?
Thinking  $19,500?

It better be fully reconditioned not just run through the car wash.

What do you mean "fully reconditioned"?

Offline ktm525

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #668 on: December 23, 2023, 03:21:20 pm »
So, here's an example....

http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-60598384

VMR: $13,500 (W) / $16,250 (R) - adjusted for province (6%) and rounded off

Asking: $22,500

So what would be a hypothetical offer in this example?
Thinking  $19,500?

It better be fully reconditioned not just run through the car wash.

What do you mean "fully reconditioned"?

Full service. Filters, plugs, fluids, new brake pads and rotors if required, fresh tires, detailed inside and out.. No scrapes, nicks, scratches or broken stuff. Showroom fresh.


Offline Dante

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #669 on: December 23, 2023, 05:10:20 pm »
So, here's an example....

http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-60598384

VMR: $13,500 (W) / $16,250 (R) - adjusted for province (6%) and rounded off

Asking: $22,500

So what would be a hypothetical offer in this example?
Thinking  $19,500?

It better be fully reconditioned not just run through the car wash.

What do you mean "fully reconditioned"?

Full service. Filters, plugs, fluids, new brake pads and rotors if required, fresh tires, detailed inside and out.. No scrapes, nicks, scratches or broken stuff. Showroom fresh.

I see. I wouldn't expect most used car dealers to do anything beyond what's required to safety certify the car (at least in Ontario) and perhaps a wash, vacuum and some shiny stuff on the trim and tires.



Offline ktm525

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #670 on: December 23, 2023, 09:48:08 pm »
Yeah during the pandemic used dealers would just throw dirty ass auction vehicles on the lot for big bucks.




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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #671 on: December 23, 2023, 10:06:00 pm »
Yeah during the pandemic used dealers would just throw dirty ass auction vehicles on the lot for big bucks.

This wasn't just through the pandemic; used vehicles have always been a hit/miss condition-wise depending on the store. And this doesn't just apply to franchise stores vs. independents either; I've seen plenty of "certified pre-owned" models at franchise locations that look like a pigsty.

Ours are detailed in-house before going onto the lot and for the most part safety-able, but if a particular unit needs tires or brakes, we'll often wait until a firm deal is had before spending the money on it. If the vehicle goes stale after a few weeks/months and we end up wholesaling it, the car's leaving as-is to another dealer so we wouldn't put any certification costs into it at all. 

That said, the one thing I have to add to ArcticSteve's rants about dealers retailing your trade are that the online auction platform was short-lived. We haven't had very good results on it at any of my locations in the past few months. We always call committed wholesalers and shop a number. Once we have a number, we pack in a little bit of profit and offer the selling customer a fair number based on that. If the unit doesn't sell retail (and many, many of our units never see retail), the wholesaler will take the vehicle and we wipe our hands clean of it. We provide a couple of photos, any obvious disclosures, a VIN and mileage. We pull our own Carfax reports too to ensure that we don't just take a customer's word on "oh yeah it's clean, never been hit!".
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Offline rrocket

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #672 on: December 23, 2023, 10:51:43 pm »



Ours are detailed in-house before going onto the lot and for the most part safety-able, but if a particular unit needs tires or brakes, we'll often wait until a firm deal is had before spending the money on it. If the vehicle goes stale after a few weeks/months and we end up wholesaling it, the car's leaving as-is to another dealer so we wouldn't put any certification costs into it at all. 



All perfectly acceptable IMO. Nothing wrong with doing it that way in the least.

And a detailed car is much appreciated. Car people know this.

And that's what separates you from many, many lots.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Dante

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #673 on: December 23, 2023, 11:32:23 pm »
Ours are detailed in-house before going onto the lot and for the most part safety-able, but if a particular unit needs tires or brakes, we'll often wait until a firm deal is had before spending the money on it.

Let me say first I hate buying used cars for many reasons, but this approach would make it easier for me. Show me the car/price as-is - just reasonably cleaned perhaps so I can see its overall state, give me a list of things it needs to certify or regular maintenance/repairs you think it needs and let me have a say on the parts you put on it. I would happily pay for it accordingly.

I hate the "new tires" or "new brakes" line using the cheapest parts available....Unlikely and understandably, a used car dealer or even private party will not spend the extra cash on quality parts when they prep the car for sale. Then you are stuck with whatever they put on because they are new parts and you indirectly paid for it.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #674 on: December 24, 2023, 12:26:11 am »
This is what new car dealers in Canada use to obtain a quick idea of what a customer trade is worth on any particular day.  Past associates on mine put the Armada on this platform and the top bid was around $47K which put the vehicle $10K underwater.  It was helpful in as much as it was clear that it was better just to forget about moving into something else and just keep on driving it.

https://www.traderev.com/en-ca/

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #675 on: December 24, 2023, 10:47:46 am »
This is what new car dealers in Canada use to obtain a quick idea of what a customer trade is worth on any particular day.  Past associates on mine put the Armada on this platform and the top bid was around $47K which put the vehicle $10K underwater.  It was helpful in as much as it was clear that it was better just to forget about moving into something else and just keep on driving it.

https://www.traderev.com/en-ca/

They aren't anymore though, because TradeRev merged with OpenLane and the platform is all but dead. From thousands and thousands of cars per day, the platform now has barely "hundreds". They made a bunch of their tools subscription-based and nobody's really paying for them. Old-school wholesale and retail are all that's really left. TradeRev is dwindling hard and unless they get their sh*t together, will soon be a thing of the past. It's a shame because the tool was very good prior to this past fall.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #676 on: December 24, 2023, 11:36:00 am »
All the new car retailers around here are still using it.   Ford, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, GM

Rural Ontario is not the GTA were there are hundreds and hundreds of tiny re-sellers driving around looking at trades.  Physical auctions are a gross waste of time and expense for out of area retailers.  TradeRev is not going down the tubes.  What's going down the tubes is the car and light truck market. 

Industry wide ARMAGEDDON is closing in.  It's already hit the the RV and boat market 

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #677 on: December 24, 2023, 04:59:12 pm »
All the new car retailers around here are still using it.   Ford, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, GM

Around where? You know I own multiple new franchise stores right? Your information is dated a few months...

Offline rrocket

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #678 on: December 24, 2023, 05:20:07 pm »


.  It's already hit the the RV and boat market

I haven't seen that yet! Here's hoping!

Been shopping for by boat since IQ said "bigger boat" and still no deals to be had!

Fingers crossed you're right!


Offline revalations

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Re: The car market is turning.
« Reply #679 on: December 25, 2023, 01:48:58 am »
This is what new car dealers in Canada use to obtain a quick idea of what a customer trade is worth on any particular day.  Past associates on mine put the Armada on this platform and the top bid was around $47K which put the vehicle $10K underwater.  It was helpful in as much as it was clear that it was better just to forget about moving into something else and just keep on driving it.

https://www.traderev.com/en-ca/

They aren't anymore though, because TradeRev merged with OpenLane and the platform is all but dead. From thousands and thousands of cars per day, the platform now has barely "hundreds". They made a bunch of their tools subscription-based and nobody's really paying for them. Old-school wholesale and retail are all that's really left. TradeRev is dwindling hard and unless they get their sh*t together, will soon be a thing of the past. It's a shame because the tool was very good prior to this past fall.

Interesting this is happening in your area. It’s going strong as ever here. 2022 was a banner year for TradeRev. Actually, there wasn’t any merger, just alignment of Adesa, Simulcast, and TradeRev into one platform. KAR Global is still the parent company of the whole outfit. I personally prefer EBlock, but the Openlane platform works better for those instant listings/live trade appraisals, etc. Openlane is also terrible to deal with, late titles, awful arbitration policies, and many other issues I’ve faced with them.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2023, 01:54:29 am by revalations »