Topic: The car market is turning.

[OliverD]

I think the "open" rules vary by province a bit.

Open in this context means you can pay as much as you want, when ever you want, on the loan with no penalties.  It's the same definition everywhere, if you have a cap on any of that or if there are penalties for making extra payments, then by definition it's not "open".

I think the loan is still technically "open" from the perspective of the lander. Whatever agreement you have with the dealer is a separate issue.

So let's say that it's open and that the dealer makes you sign a waiver stating you don't pay it off before X time period, then you go pay it off.  The dealer can charge you a feel to recoup their kickback from the finance company, but how much are they willing to fight for it?  Are they willing to go to court to enforce that?  The reality is they likely won't as it's only a few hundred bucks and that doesn't take long to accrue when you start talking about including lawyers.

Yeah, exactly.

[HeliDriver]

I think the "open" rules vary by province a bit.

Open in this context means you can pay as much as you want, when ever you want, on the loan with no penalties.  It's the same definition everywhere, if you have a cap on any of that or if there are penalties for making extra payments, then by definition it's not "open".

I think the loan is still technically "open" from the perspective of the lander. Whatever agreement you have with the dealer is a separate issue.

So let's say that it's open and that the dealer makes you sign a waiver stating you don't pay it off before X time period, then you go pay it off.  The dealer can charge you a feel to recoup their kickback from the finance company, but how much are they willing to fight for it?  Are they willing to go to court to enforce that?  The reality is they likely won't as it's only a few hundred bucks and that doesn't take long to accrue when you start talking about including lawyers.

^This.  My first reaction would be to tell the dealer " off!  Sue me."  Other than maybe a lawyer's letter I seriously doubt they would try and take it very far.

You’re likely right, but it would be a douche move to sign an agreement then pay off the loan early anyway.

[rrocket]

I'd just tell the dealer to eat a dick up...

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I think the "open" rules vary by province a bit.

Open in this context means you can pay as much as you want, when ever you want, on the loan with no penalties.  It's the same definition everywhere, if you have a cap on any of that or if there are penalties for making extra payments, then by definition it's not "open".

I think the loan is still technically "open" from the perspective of the lander. Whatever agreement you have with the dealer is a separate issue.

So let's say that it's open and that the dealer makes you sign a waiver stating you don't pay it off before X time period, then you go pay it off.  The dealer can charge you a feel to recoup their kickback from the finance company, but how much are they willing to fight for it?  Are they willing to go to court to enforce that?  The reality is they likely won't as it's only a few hundred bucks and that doesn't take long to accrue when you start talking about including lawyers.

^This.  My first reaction would be to tell the dealer " off!  Sue me."  Other than maybe a lawyer's letter I seriously doubt they would try and take it very far.

You’re likely right, but it would be a douche move to sign an agreement then pay off the loan early anyway.

Zero sympathy in this regard for the dealers...

Maybe it works for Toyota and the others who are struggling to keep cars on the lots, but ALL the domestics have full lots, and are not in any position to bargain. 

[ArticSteve]

This discussion applies to used car sales, not new.  Most likely subprime lenders and not a chartered bank.

[WP v3.32]

What would make these cars go to auction?  I know it says REPO but they  have very little mileage.  Some barely enough to miss the first payment.

Is there Auctions for new vehicles? I assume some dealer (Ram, Chev..etc) wants to move vehicles that doesn't sell.

https://regalauctions.com/inventory.php?a=listing&listType=detail&search[seller_type][]=B&search[seller_type][]=F&search[seller_type][]=C&search[seller_type][]=Y&search[seller_type][]=S&search[seller_type][]=N&search[make][]=Dodge&search[make][]=Ram&search[model][]=1500&search[model][]=1500%20CLASSIC&search[odometer][max]=90000&search[engine][]=6%20Cylinder&search[engine][]=8%20Cylinder&sort=odometer-asc&unitsPerPage=25&page=1

https://regalauctions.com/inventory/TRUCK/CALGARY/2023-RAM-1500-CLASSIC/88115.htm

https://regalauctions.com/inventory/TRUCK/CALGARY/2023-RAM-1500-CLASSIC/88190.htm

https://regalauctions.com/inventory/TRUCK/CALGARY/2023-RAM-1500-CLASSIC/89975.htm

[Blueprint]

^^ The black truck is full of repo'd stuff!! And the white one had something nasty happen inside.

[WP v3.32]

^^ The black truck is full of repo'd stuff!! And the white one had something nasty happen inside.

yeah I see that on the black truck but the odometer is below 400km, not even a full tank.  The other one looks like it's cocaine powder! it probably gained value

the white one looks clean( I know, it's Regal).  but these mileages would not even be long enough to trigger a repossession? it probably takes at least couple weeks after you missed the very first payment so someone would have time to put at least couple thousand Kilometers.  it's weird

[ArticSteve]

The dealer auction in Ontario is virtual.  A new car dealer can put a trade on the auction and receive a bid in virtually minutes and make a profit.

I'm getting rid of my wife's 2022 MDX lease with 48K km and whomever I sell it to will make $3K if it happened by the end of this year.  The question is how much of that money will be applied to a new lease.

Recently, I put my 2022 Armada 48 mth lease on the auction and horrific low balls (daughter-in-laws vehicle).  So it looks like that thing will go for the entire lease term and then who knows.  She likes it so the current plan is to have them buy it out and run it till it dies. 

Currently, trucks and heavy vehicles not doing well.  Passenger cars doing well.

[ktm525]

The dealer auction in Ontario is virtual.  A new car dealer can put a trade on the auction and receive a bid in virtually minutes and make a profit.

I'm getting rid of my wife's 2022 MDX lease with 48K km and whomever I sell it to will make $3K if it happened by the end of this year.  The question is how much of that money will be applied to a new lease.

Recently, I put my 2022 Armada 48 mth lease on the auction and horrific low balls (daughter-in-laws vehicle).  So it looks like that thing will go for the entire lease term and then who knows.  She likes it so the current plan is to have them buy it out and run it till it dies. 

Currently, trucks and heavy vehicles not doing well.  Passenger cars doing well.

Is this like lease busters where you place your currently leased vehicle up and then transfer the remaining lease term? You are dropping the MDX? Is this because the mileage is piling up?

[ArticSteve]

Nothing like that.

The Auction is open to any registered dealer in Ontario.  They take a zillion photos of the vehicle and post it and guarantee condition to a point .  If they get a buyer then the trade happens instantly between both parties and the auction takes a commissions.  The 'Canadian Black Book" is history.  Buyer is responsible for pick up.  Seller pays commission.

The last MDX "TECH" that went thru the auction with 49K km fetched $47k and change.  Currently, the buyout pre tax for the wife's MDX is $43,600 from Honda Canada Credit.

Current offer from Acura to me is 1.9% for 40mths.  So far I put negotiations on hold until after Xmas.  Current lease is $900 even.  I need $950.  We got stuck at $1000. (monthly).  This is for an "ASPEC" trim which adds $3K over and above a TECH which are non existence in the GTA by design.

The only nagging issue are the winters.  I will need new ones and I'm wondering if I need the aggravation right now.   April delivery would solve this.  Also hate getting new vehicles in winter.

The downside is that Acura might take the 1.9% (loyalty rate) away and they do that often.  Plus the MSRP may be increased.

[ktm525]

So you are terminating your current lease early?

[ArticSteve]

Always do.  Normally, I go for a 48 mth lease with a 16K km allowance.  That keeps the payment as low as possible.  But at the onset the intention is to let it go when the equity meets the buyout.  So it depends on the vehicle and the rate of inflation.  2022 MDXs still have a demand in the used market.  I'm $2K positive on it right now after 27 months.

On the flip side, the 2022 Armada is $10K underwater.  Acquired both vehicles at the same time.  September 2021.  The savings grace is that the daughter in law loves the vehicle.  It's got 21 months left.  The payment is $886 tax in.   Going to Krown it in the spring just in case.  The buyout is low $30Ks.  It will have about 90K km on it.  The carbon tax increases will hurt on a V8 vehicle weighing 6000 lbs., but that's only temporary. 

My son and I are obsessed with 2 lane rural highway wrecks because they happen here often.  So he sent tenders out for a base GLS.  With zero down, 48 mth term .... $2400 mth.  I was a good lesson in reality.  GLE, too small, still $1950. mth.  Same lesson.

To answer your question specifically.  I don't terminate the lease.  I don't talk to Honda Credit.  Whoever the Acura dealer is, they pay the buyout.  I walk in, the new MDX is already plated, I drive away with my old plates which I later re-install and turn the old ones back into the Ministry.

As of last night the wind had gone out of my sales after haggling with the current dealer at Downtown Acura Toronto.  A new dealer that my son use to work with woke me up this AM.  He's located just outside the north part of the City which will make the drive 1 hour shorter each way.  He's talking it over with the used car manager.  He warned me it won't be $900 per month.  I'd be good with $960. tax in.

The only other issue is the colour combos.  Firstly, Acura is restricting the Tech versions of the 2024 MDX.  The Tech versions are all one needs.  Instead they have flooded the Dealers with the Aspec trims.  $3K bump. for essentially a black out package.  The big problem is that for some stupid reason they all have arrived with this bright red interior.  Only one of about 20 have a black interior, but in this bright blue.  I'm starting to wane on the whole idea just writing this. 

[bridgecity]

The big problem is that for some stupid reason they all have arrived with this bright red interior. 

Same issue around here.  With the MDX and RDX A-Spec trims, there's more red than black interiors.  I think the red looks OK, but I sure don't want to live with it.  When that trend ends no one will want it.

[warp]

The dealer auction in Ontario is virtual. A new car dealer can put a trade on the auction and receive a bid in virtually minutes and make a profit.

I'm getting rid of my wife's 2022 MDX lease with 48K km and whomever I sell it to will make $3K if it happened by the end of this year.  The question is how much of that money will be applied to a new lease.

Recently, I put my 2022 Armada 48 mth lease on the auction and horrific low balls (daughter-in-laws vehicle).  So it looks like that thing will go for the entire lease term and then who knows.  She likes it so the current plan is to have them buy it out and run it till it dies. 

Currently, trucks and heavy vehicles not doing well.  Passenger cars doing well.

AS, you appear to be well versed in this. How would you know what kind of bid they got? As a customer, the only metric I have is the asking retail price of a similar trim, odometer, model year vehicle. And then I have to go by what equity was put into the new lease from the difference between the buyout and the retail price which of course will be more than what the used car manager actually makes.

[ktm525]

The big problem is that for some stupid reason they all have arrived with this bright red interior. 

Same issue around here.  With the MDX and RDX A-Spec trims, there's more red than black interiors.  I think the red looks OK, but I sure don't want to live with it.  When that trend ends no one will want it.

The old whorehouse red makes a comeback!   

[ArticSteve]

The big problem is that for some stupid reason they all have arrived with this bright red interior. 

Same issue around here.  With the MDX and RDX A-Spec trims, there's more red than black interiors.  I think the red looks OK, but I sure don't want to live with it.  When that trend ends no one will want it.

My 2 cents is that everything of course is directed to the US consumer and I suppose this type of overt style is more main stream there than here.  When traveling down there you feel a difference in sensibilities.

Whatever; we still are miles apart on the second dealer and fortunately I don't care and my wife could care less.  I do love chasing low rates though.  It's like a sport.    

The 2022 has 48K km and the used car guys generally like to see high 50s km at most.  So I have till spring.  I have high tread Blizzacks on the OEM rims currently, so if I traded I'd lose those because I only have a spare set of 18 inchers (OEM Enkei that was part of the 2019 MDX lease)

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  So true.

[ArticSteve]

AS, you appear to be well versed in this. How would you know what kind of bid they got? As a customer, the only metric I have is the asking retail price of a similar trim, odometer, model year vehicle. And then I have to go by what equity was put into the new lease from the difference between the buyout and the retail price which of course will be more than what the used car manager actually makes.

They will never tell you.  But the Dealer who is courting your trade doesn't know exactly what that particular vehicle is worth until they photograph it and submit it to the online auction.  Alternatively, they can see what previous prices have been so they have an idea and they extend offers based on that.

Buyers that are trading in should not make the mistake that they are sharing in the profit that a Dealer may make on a trade or a lease return.  If the wholesale is $45K, which is my low based on the exact same MDX Tech that ran thru the auction at $47,500 in October, I know that they'll be asking $49,999. retail for it minimum.  I realize that I'm not sharing in that.  However, many buyers think that they are entitled to some of that profit in advance.  What I do expect is a hefty discount off MSRP.  Therein lies the conflict.

To answer you specifically.  Yes, I can call an ex associate and get the last auction price for any vehicle.  It's of course helpful.  But if you are a hard *ss and the Dealer wants the business bad enough then you can demand they show you.

If not, then on a used vehicle advertised as $50K, the wholesale is close to $45K.  There are of course reconditioning costs that vary.

[revalations]

Placing a car on the wholesale dealer auction platform is easy. I can send a link to anyone and you’ll be able to do it from your driveway. However, you won’t be able to see the bids, so as a dealer I can smoke and mirrors as I wish. National average for a 22 MDX is $52,700….thats dealer prices.

[Dante]

What does a 2017 X3 35i with less than 100K goes for wholesale? Retail prices are all over the place...hard to figure out what fair price would be these days.