Topic: The car market is turning.

[ArticSteve]

They wouldn't like that 3.0 Duramax with the belt drive oil pump either then

That's an intentional design.  Listened to a GM engineer talk about removing the transmission.  Seems reasonable because those things are fairly easy to drop providing the vehicle don't see road salt.  I dunno.  Everything seems ripe with issues.

[valuator]

They wouldn't like that 3.0 Duramax with the belt drive oil pump either then

That's an intentional design.  Listened to a GM engineer talk about removing the transmission.  Seems reasonable because those things are fairly easy to drop providing the vehicle don't see road salt.  I dunno.  Everything seems ripe with issues.

Hard to know what to buy anymore.

[Blueprint]

They wouldn't like that 3.0 Duramax with the belt drive oil pump either then

That's an intentional design.  Listened to a GM engineer talk about removing the transmission.  Seems reasonable because those things are fairly easy to drop providing the vehicle don't see road salt.  I dunno.  Everything seems ripe with issues.

Hard to know what to buy anymore.

Current 4-banger gas Camry is probably the safest long-term bet.

[warp]

Saw my very first re-designed Accord and also the new Toyota Crown on GTA roads, an indication of slow sales for these two, given that they have been available for some time now. In the flesh the Accord looks about the same as it does in the pictures, the Crown looks worse, it has very awkward proportions not helped by the two tone color scheme of the example that I saw.

[ArticSteve]

Nothing is cheap anymore because incomes have stalled, or if you're a hustler, you get hammered by taxes.  Loser either way.

Moving on, the Pilot is the clear winner IMO.  Honda makes the best gas engines.  After decades of lousy trannys they've finally moved on.  You look in the engine compartment and you find even a low skilled person could change the T-belt, plugs, whatever.  It is a mechanical masterpiece in today's world of mass complication.

Yes, Camry is always the choice, but I'd substitute that with the RAV 4 AWD Hybrid.  That ticks all the boxes.  Utility and side steps the bendix stop/start issue.  The AWD part depends on where you live I suppose.

Next I'd picked the Civic liftback with the non turbo for the utility.   Gas Camry is essentially the same price.  Both good choices.

[ArticSteve]

Saw my very first re-designed Accord and also the new Toyota Crown on GTA roads, an indication of slow sales for these two, given that they have been available for some time now. In the flesh the Accord looks about the same as it does in the pictures, the Crown looks worse, it has very awkward proportions not helped by the two tone color scheme of the example that I saw.

I thought the Crown was a lift back.    What's the point of that thing then if you can't put something bulky in it?  That and the Sequioa are not long for this world.

[pi314]

Honda pricing seems nuts these days... idk why I'd buy a honda when a comparable toyota seems way cheaper.  Eg base highlander 48k vs 53k pilot and half a percent interest difference. 2024 odyssey starting at.... 54 k (wtf), and Sienna 45k as a hybrid

Generally pricing seems nuts... something has to give. I've noticed lots got WAY more full over the last month or so, local Ford dealer has 4 or 5 F150 Lightnings on the lot for example.

I don't see how this continues when the free money train has dried up and median family income is below 100k in this country.

[OliverD]

Honda pricing seems nuts these days... idk why I'd buy a honda when a comparable toyota seems way cheaper.  Eg base highlander 48k vs 53k pilot and half a percent interest difference. 2024 odyssey starting at.... 54 k (wtf), and Sienna 45k as a hybrid

Generally pricing seems nuts... something has to give. I've noticed lots got WAY more full over the last month or so, local Ford dealer has 4 or 5 F150 Lightnings on the lot for example.

I don't see how this continues when the free money train has dried up and median family income is below 100k in this country.

Yeah, Riverview had six Lightnings listed the other day. The $10k price cut should help a bit at least.

A friend of mine with an F-150 built and priced one and his payment would double. Doesn't sound like he'd come out ahead from a TCO perspective.

[JohnnyMac]

Honda pricing seems nuts these days... idk why I'd buy a honda when a comparable toyota seems way cheaper.  Eg base highlander 48k vs 53k pilot and half a percent interest difference. 2024 odyssey starting at.... 54 k (wtf), and Sienna 45k as a hybrid

Generally pricing seems nuts... something has to give. I've noticed lots got WAY more full over the last month or so, local Ford dealer has 4 or 5 F150 Lightnings on the lot for example.

I don't see how this continues when the free money train has dried up and median family income is below 100k in this country.

Yeah it's a bit nuts, I definitely bought my Civic Si at the right time, even though this generation went up quite a bit from the last generation.  My 22 is almost $4,500 less when I bought it and I'm paying 2.99% interest. 

I'm not sure what to bet on, Honda lowering their prices and interest rates, or other car makers raising theirs to Honda levels.

[ktm525]

Patience.. Look at the RV market and all the pinheads who bought the past 3 years. These will go for pennies on the dollar.

[pi314]

Honda pricing seems nuts these days... idk why I'd buy a honda when a comparable toyota seems way cheaper.  Eg base highlander 48k vs 53k pilot and half a percent interest difference. 2024 odyssey starting at.... 54 k (wtf), and Sienna 45k as a hybrid

Generally pricing seems nuts... something has to give. I've noticed lots got WAY more full over the last month or so, local Ford dealer has 4 or 5 F150 Lightnings on the lot for example.

I don't see how this continues when the free money train has dried up and median family income is below 100k in this country.

Yeah it's a bit nuts, I definitely bought my Civic Si at the right time, even though this generation went up quite a bit from the last generation.  My 22 is almost $4,500 less when I bought it and I'm paying 2.99% interest. 

I'm not sure what to bet on, Honda lowering their prices and interest rates, or other car makers raising theirs to Honda levels.

I don't think there's room to increase pricing, used car pricing has dropped slowly but steadily and so will auto manufacturers... at some point competition will make them take some loss on margins, or at least that'd be my guess right now.

Remember 2010 with $20000 Dodge Caravan Canada Value Package? Sure it'll probably be more like 30k now but there's room to drop...

[PJungnitsch]

Going to be interesting, at least if you want a Honda/Ford/GM/Chrysler.

Lots are loaded with 2023's that are going to turn into pumpkins pretty soon

[revalations]

CJDR dealers are in for a world of hurt. Back in March one dealer still had over 70 2022 models. The Ram is getting stale, every Jeep is either dated or new and way overpriced, Dodge lost the Grand Caravan and journey (both sold well), and the cars are on the way out. Actually saw a Hornet the other day, wondering how long before they have mountains of cash on the hood to move.

[PJungnitsch]

Didn't even think of that!

See the closest dealer still has 25 new 2022's, $13,000 off Grand Cherokees is getting up there

[revalations]

One dealer here had seven 2022 Grand Wagoneers in stock. All really high end trim ($100k+) Think there was $23,000 on the hood of those. I still see he has some still advertised.

[Layne]

I'm trying to buy a used boat and the prices haven't moved.

[ArticSteve]

Honda pricing seems nuts these days... idk why I'd buy a honda when a comparable toyota seems way cheaper.  Eg base highlander 48k vs 53k pilot and half a percent interest difference. 2024 odyssey starting at.... 54 k (wtf), and Sienna 45k as a hybrid

Generally pricing seems nuts... something has to give. I've noticed lots got WAY more full over the last month or so, local Ford dealer has 4 or 5 F150 Lightnings on the lot for example.

I don't see how this continues when the free money train has dried up and median family income is below 100k in this country.

Two very bad examples

Highlander and Pilot not remotely comparable.  The former being a 4 banger with slip and grip awd.

Lightnings BLOW.  Massive fail.

[ArticSteve]

Manufactures facing losses will trim models and production.  Not the first time.  Who's going to collapse first?

Ford or Stellantis?

[revalations]

Manufactures facing losses will trim models and production.  Not the first time.  Who's going to collapse first?

Ford or Stellantis?

Even with all our local Ford dealers sitting on megabuck EV’s that aren’t selling, I’d bet stellantis fails first- they’re not moving much of anything at all these days.

[tortoise]

I'm trying to buy a used boat and the prices haven't moved.

Around here the boat prices have softened a bunch but there's still a few people who haven't got the memo.