Topic: The car market is turning.

[ArticSteve]

They are stacked up like cordwood here. In demand vehicles not so much.

Are we talking about the RAM "classic"     If so they have been since early fall.  They can't sell them for a host of reasons.   Primary reason is that lower income people that gravitated to these "discounted" "pickups" are broke and people with money don't want them no matter how they are priced.

[bridgecity]

I prefer the look of the classic versus the new Ram. These must be well sorted by now, no?  Gotta be more reliable than a ‘07 Tindra with 240k?  Mind you, the Tundra hasn’t let me down, but at some point the suspension/steering etc is going to need upgrades. And at some point the body is going to rot past the point of it being worth repairing.

As an alternate, at 45k I’d be looking at a 2018-2020 Tundra. That may be a better buy. But who am I kidding, I’m not dragging around a 30’ trailer anymore. I could live with a midsize with a 6’ box.

[ArticSteve]

These must be well sorted by now, no?

Same sub standard offering.  Same exhaust manifolds that blow out circa 100K km.  Quality never improves with that company, just it's name.  Have at it as the Savage likes to say.

[Firm]

I too prefer the looks of the 'classic' Ram. I know they have their issues, but at $10K+ savings over a comparable F-150 I understand why someone might go that way. I worked on a co-workers today; a 2021 that she's put 65,000kms on it the last 18 months with zero issues. Fairly basic truck but with the HEMI, dual exhaust, and (I think) the larger screen. Installed a front leveling kit (Rancho struts), a set of barely used 35's on 20"s rims that were left over from an old build we did, and a set of rear Rancho shocks to match. About 3 hours worth of work total, everything is still pretty simple.

I was surprised to see that even at 65,000km the brakes were still 70%+ life. I took a test drove it after the work and it drives great, sounds nice, looks good. Hard to fault it for the $ these days, even if you end up having some repairs a long the way. Provided that the HEMI holds together.

Her lifetime fuel economy on it was 13.8L/100km, pretty decent for a big 4x4 V8 pickup IMO....Obviously lots of highway though.

[rrocket]

I too prefer the looks of the 'classic' Ram. I know they have their issues, but at $10K+ savings over a comparable F-150 I understand why someone might go that way. I worked on a co-workers today; a 2021 that she's put 65,000kms on it the last 18 months with zero issues. Fairly basic truck but with the HEMI, dual exhaust, and (I think) the larger screen. Installed a front leveling kit (Rancho struts), a set of barely used 35's on 20"s rims that were left over from an old build we did, and a set of rear Rancho shocks to match. About 3 hours worth of work total, everything is still pretty simple.

I was surprised to see that even at 65,000km the brakes were still 70%+ life. I took a test drove it after the work and it drives great, sounds nice, looks good. Hard to fault it for the $ these days, even if you end up having some repairs a long the way. Provided that the HEMI holds together.

Her lifetime fuel economy on it was 13.8L/100km, pretty decent for a big 4x4 V8 pickup IMO....Obviously lots of highway though.

Nice!

I'm old now..but still love modding!

[Seafoam]

They are stacked up like cordwood here. In demand vehicles not so much.

Are we talking about the RAM "classic"     If so they have been since early fall.  They can't sell them for a host of reasons.   Primary reason is that lower income people that gravitated to these "discounted" "pickups" are broke and people with money don't want them no matter how they are priced.

Yup,lots of those in particular. The dealership was full of other Chrysler products to choose from as well. Just like the good old days.

[WP v3.32]

The Chevrolet dealership is also starting to have some inventory, not as much as Dodge but more than imports lots. 

there's tons of youtube videos claiming dealers are about to go under and can't sell..

Somebody posted video of this  dude before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ctFEbzCaU

[valuator]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

[ktm525]

The Chevrolet dealership is also starting to have some inventory, not as much as Dodge but more than imports lots. 

there's tons of youtube videos claiming dealers are about to go under and can't sell..

Somebody posted video of this  dude before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ctFEbzCaU

Good. Back when I started looking for a used car in November I made a fair offer on a used Infiniti EX. Dealer was arrogant and didn't even bother to counter. Fast forward to today and vehicle still on lot and the price has been reduced multiple times. Likely it will sell below my November offer sometime this summer.  Market therapy. Cash is king.

[WP v3.32]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

I saw quite a few adds from chevy advertising 0% for 5 years +... that's ok when  cloth interior is $65k...lol  ridiculous.

[PJungnitsch]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

Yeah, it makes me think that if Dodge does start listing a bunch of these 'classic' pickups in the low to mid 40's they might start moving metal. It's not like an extra 20 to 30 grand for an Ecoboost or that 2.7 GM 4 cyl is guarantees reliability

[WP v3.32]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

Yeah, it makes me think that if Dodge does start listing a bunch of these 'classic' pickups in the low to mid 40's they might start moving metal. It's not like an extra 20 to 30 grand for an Ecoboost or that 2.7 GM 4 cyl is guarantees reliability

yeah the whole turbo trend is an issue.  Now only Ram (3.6L & Hemi) and the ford 5.0L are the non turbo options.  Even the Tundra has a bunch of issues. 

[ArticSteve]

The Federal Reserve needs to pause rates NOW before they take out a domestic automaker.  Whose left to buy?  Half the US and Canadian population are essentially insolvent.   The majority of boomers are looking around and deciding it's time to hord cash at 5%.  Not many buyers left particularly for discretionary purchases like Jeeps/RAMS.  Hence, Jeep production is been shut down in Illinois after decades and moving to Mexico along with suppliers.  Consequently, increasing socio-economic discontent in the US which leads to unstable politics.  And we all know what happens then.   

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

Yeah, it makes me think that if Dodge does start listing a bunch of these 'classic' pickups in the low to mid 40's they might start moving metal. It's not like an extra 20 to 30 grand for an Ecoboost or that 2.7 GM 4 cyl is guarantees reliability

yeah the whole turbo trend is an issue.  Now only Ram (3.6L & Hemi) and the ford 5.0L are the non turbo options.  Even the Tundra has a bunch of issues.

Huh?  Does GM not still offer the 5.3 and 6.2 in their trucks?  Isn't the 2.7T just the base engine option?

[valuator]

A quick check of inventory shows 120 Sierras on the lot at the moment.  13 of them are priced over $100k.  The cheapest Elevation with the 5.3 and crew cab is $74k.  That many vehicles on the lot would be a big number for that dealership even pre-COVID.  Shocking, I tell you.

[WP v3.32]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

Yeah, it makes me think that if Dodge does start listing a bunch of these 'classic' pickups in the low to mid 40's they might start moving metal. It's not like an extra 20 to 30 grand for an Ecoboost or that 2.7 GM 4 cyl is guarantees reliability

yeah the whole turbo trend is an issue.  Now only Ram (3.6L & Hemi) and the ford 5.0L are the non turbo options.  Even the Tundra has a bunch of issues.

Huh?  Does GM not still offer the 5.3 and 6.2 in their trucks?  Isn't the 2.7T just the base engine option?

o yeah, my bad.  I though the 5.3l was getting phased out

[Firm]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

Yeah, it makes me think that if Dodge does start listing a bunch of these 'classic' pickups in the low to mid 40's they might start moving metal. It's not like an extra 20 to 30 grand for an Ecoboost or that 2.7 GM 4 cyl is guarantees reliability

yeah the whole turbo trend is an issue.  Now only Ram (3.6L & Hemi) and the ford 5.0L are the non turbo options.  Even the Tundra has a bunch of issues.

Huh?  Does GM not still offer the 5.3 and 6.2 in their trucks?  Isn't the 2.7T just the base engine option?

5.3L and 6.2L is still available. In fact, a buddy of mine bought an Elevation within the last year or so with a 5.3L, otherwise pretty basic truck (cloth seats, small screen, etc). Not sure what he paid, but he has it under his business and swaps trucks every 5 years or so, always GMs.

[PJungnitsch]

A quick check of inventory shows 120 Sierras on the lot at the moment.  13 of them are priced over $100k.  The cheapest Elevation with the 5.3 and crew cab is $74k.  That many vehicles on the lot would be a big number for that dealership even pre-COVID.  Shocking, I tell you.

Some dealers and manufacturers got used to making huge money off each vehicle when supply was low and pent up demand was high

General Motors Annual Net Income
(Millions of US $)

2022   $8,915
2021   $9,837
2020   $6,247
2019   $6,581

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GM/general-motors/net-income

Thinking that is going to have to change

[WP v3.32]

Our local GMC dealer has massive inventory of Sierra Elevations....sticker north of $70k.  I was in one my co-worker leased the other day, it's just fine but not $70k nice.  Not surprised these middle-trim trucks without leather aren't moving at 7.99% interest.  $85,000 all in over 6 years at 7.99% is $1,490 per month.

I mean, my wife and I do just fine salary-wise, but a $1500 a month car payment would be a stretch for us and if we made that leap, I'd want something that felt a hell of a lot more special than an Elevation.  (no offense to any Elevation drivers here, I hope your workplace leased it for you)

Yeah, it makes me think that if Dodge does start listing a bunch of these 'classic' pickups in the low to mid 40's they might start moving metal. It's not like an extra 20 to 30 grand for an Ecoboost or that 2.7 GM 4 cyl is guarantees reliability

yeah the whole turbo trend is an issue.  Now only Ram (3.6L & Hemi) and the ford 5.0L are the non turbo options.  Even the Tundra has a bunch of issues.

Huh?  Does GM not still offer the 5.3 and 6.2 in their trucks?  Isn't the 2.7T just the base engine option?

5.3L and 6.2L is still available. In fact, a buddy of mine bought an Elevation within the last year or so with a 5.3L, otherwise pretty basic truck (cloth seats, small screen, etc). Not sure what he paid, but he has it under his business and swaps trucks every 5 years or so, always GMs.

Guy at work has one a 2020 I think bought at the beginning of covid before the rise, basic with the 5.3 he paid $41k all in

[EV-Light]

A quick check of inventory shows 120 Sierras on the lot at the moment.  13 of them are priced over $100k.  The cheapest Elevation with the 5.3 and crew cab is $74k.  That many vehicles on the lot would be a big number for that dealership even pre-COVID.  Shocking, I tell you.

Some dealers and manufacturers got used to making huge money off each vehicle when supply was low and pent up demand was high

General Motors Annual Net Income
(Millions of US $)

2022$8,915
2021$9,837
2020$6,247
2019$6,581

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GM/general-motors/net-income

Thinking that is going to have to change

They will reduce output…!

GM just did it: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-new-vehicle-sales-go-up-feb-vehicle-availability-improves-2023-02-24/

Ford hasn’t done it yet, but if things don’t change I wanna bet they will.


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