Topic: 2023 Genesis G90 Review

[Hannibalsmith]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

[Firm]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

Escalade and the mid-size SUV (SRX, now XT5) keep the company alive. Slade's are popular everywhere, and the XT5s are extremely popular outside of city centers, at least in Ontario. Both good vehicles, and I imagine the profit margin on the Escalades is really rich given that most of the underpinnings are shared with the Chevy and GMC counterparts.

The Blackwings are niche though, they're cool, but not what's needed to pickup volume in on the car side of the equation.

[Blueprint]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

Escalade and the mid-size SUV (SRX, now XT5) keep the company alive. Slade's are popular everywhere, and the XT5s are extremely popular outside of city centers, at least in Ontario. Both good vehicles, and I imagine the profit margin on the Escalades is really rich given that most of the underpinnings are shared with the Chevy and GMC counterparts.

The Blackwings are niche though, they're cool, but not what's needed to pickup volume in on the car side of the equation.

Exactly. The Blackwings get tons of exposure in all the car mags, because track day toys, yet get crickets from the general market who is not even aware they exist. XT4, 5 and 6 is where the market is, with Escalade taking care of the traditional / livery buyer. The Lyriq shows the brand still has mass-appeal potential and resonates pretty well. CT4 and 5 could be pulled and no one would notice. The market just doesn't care about sedans anymore. The Lexus cars aren't selling, 5-series and up are vaporware, ditto E-Class and up at Benz. May be a bit different in Ontario, but here only the 3-Series and Model 3 appear to survice the lux SUV tidal wave - and I live in the city with the most per-capita luxury vehicles in the country. A lot of lux sedan buyers also moved to EVs, such as the Mach-E (4 or 5 on my street), Polestar 2 (two), EV6, Ioniq5 and such.

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

Escalade and the mid-size SUV (SRX, now XT5) keep the company alive. Slade's are popular everywhere, and the XT5s are extremely popular outside of city centers, at least in Ontario. Both good vehicles, and I imagine the profit margin on the Escalades is really rich given that most of the underpinnings are shared with the Chevy and GMC counterparts.

The Blackwings are niche though, they're cool, but not what's needed to pickup volume in on the car side of the equation.

I think there is enough demand that they could probably double or triple output of the Blackwings, but yes it’s niche but also something that will be remembered decades from now.  The CUVs and Slade are what keeps the lights on.  I feel like their CUVs aren’t nearly as competitive as brands like Acura (MDX & RDX), Lexus (UX, RX, NX) or even Genesis.  The Slade is by are their best product, followed by their Blackwings, and then that EV CUV.

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

Escalade and the mid-size SUV (SRX, now XT5) keep the company alive. Slade's are popular everywhere, and the XT5s are extremely popular outside of city centers, at least in Ontario. Both good vehicles, and I imagine the profit margin on the Escalades is really rich given that most of the underpinnings are shared with the Chevy and GMC counterparts.

The Blackwings are niche though, they're cool, but not what's needed to pickup volume in on the car side of the equation.

Exactly. The Blackwings get tons of exposure in all the car mags, because track day toys, yet get crickets from the general market who is not even aware they exist. XT4, 5 and 6 is where the market is, with Escalade taking care of the traditional / livery buyer. The Lyriq shows the brand still has mass-appeal potential and resonates pretty well. CT4 and 5 could be pulled and no one would notice. The market just doesn't care about sedans anymore. The Lexus cars aren't selling, 5-series and up are vaporware, ditto E-Class and up at Benz. May be a bit different in Ontario, but here only the 3-Series and Model 3 appear to survice the lux SUV tidal wave - and I live in the city with the most per-capita luxury vehicles in the country. A lot of lux sedan buyers also moved to EVs, such as the Mach-E (4 or 5 on my street), Polestar 2 (two), EV6, Ioniq5 and such.

Crickets from the general market?  You realize how difficult these are to find right?  They sell every one they make months before they are built.  But they are limited numbers and fantastic marketing material to stay relevant, which to me is worth keeping around, at least until they are replaced by EVs.

[Blueprint]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

Escalade and the mid-size SUV (SRX, now XT5) keep the company alive. Slade's are popular everywhere, and the XT5s are extremely popular outside of city centers, at least in Ontario. Both good vehicles, and I imagine the profit margin on the Escalades is really rich given that most of the underpinnings are shared with the Chevy and GMC counterparts.

The Blackwings are niche though, they're cool, but not what's needed to pickup volume in on the car side of the equation.

Exactly. The Blackwings get tons of exposure in all the car mags, because track day toys, yet get crickets from the general market who is not even aware they exist. XT4, 5 and 6 is where the market is, with Escalade taking care of the traditional / livery buyer. The Lyriq shows the brand still has mass-appeal potential and resonates pretty well. CT4 and 5 could be pulled and no one would notice. The market just doesn't care about sedans anymore. The Lexus cars aren't selling, 5-series and up are vaporware, ditto E-Class and up at Benz. May be a bit different in Ontario, but here only the 3-Series and Model 3 appear to survice the lux SUV tidal wave - and I live in the city with the most per-capita luxury vehicles in the country. A lot of lux sedan buyers also moved to EVs, such as the Mach-E (4 or 5 on my street), Polestar 2 (two), EV6, Ioniq5 and such.

Crickets from the general market?  You realize how difficult these are to find right?  They sell every one they make months before they are built.  But they are limited numbers and fantastic marketing material to stay relevant, which to me is worth keeping around, at least until they are replaced by EVs.

Peronally, I love these things but ask Joe Public, and he'll know what an Escalade is, but will probably think a Blackwing is a motorcycle.

[Dante]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were arguably better vehicles out there for the money.

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

Escalade and the mid-size SUV (SRX, now XT5) keep the company alive. Slade's are popular everywhere, and the XT5s are extremely popular outside of city centers, at least in Ontario. Both good vehicles, and I imagine the profit margin on the Escalades is really rich given that most of the underpinnings are shared with the Chevy and GMC counterparts.

The Blackwings are niche though, they're cool, but not what's needed to pickup volume in on the car side of the equation.

Exactly. The Blackwings get tons of exposure in all the car mags, because track day toys, yet get crickets from the general market who is not even aware they exist. XT4, 5 and 6 is where the market is, with Escalade taking care of the traditional / livery buyer. The Lyriq shows the brand still has mass-appeal potential and resonates pretty well. CT4 and 5 could be pulled and no one would notice. The market just doesn't care about sedans anymore. The Lexus cars aren't selling, 5-series and up are vaporware, ditto E-Class and up at Benz. May be a bit different in Ontario, but here only the 3-Series and Model 3 appear to survice the lux SUV tidal wave - and I live in the city with the most per-capita luxury vehicles in the country. A lot of lux sedan buyers also moved to EVs, such as the Mach-E (4 or 5 on my street), Polestar 2 (two), EV6, Ioniq5 and such.

Crickets from the general market?  You realize how difficult these are to find right?  They sell every one they make months before they are built.  But they are limited numbers and fantastic marketing material to stay relevant, which to me is worth keeping around, at least until they are replaced by EVs.

Peronally, I love these things but ask Joe Public, and he'll know what an Escalade is, but will probably think a Blackwing is a motorcycle.

That same Joe couldn’t name about 75% of vehicles sold today and likely still think that Ford sells new Focus and GM new Impalas.  They are never going to get recognition from that group of buyers as they buy mainstream crap that is boring as white bread.

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were much better vehicles out there for the money.

Interesting, well now you have me curious, what was superior in 2008, or 2013?  Has to be able to fit 7 grown people comfortably with cargo space and tow 7,000lbs, and be from a luxury brand.  Exclude other GM full size SUVs, as they are basically the same as the Slade.  The only one that I can think of in those time periods are the Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator, and that’s it.

[Dante]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were much better vehicles out there for the money.

Interesting, well now you have me curious, what was superior in 2008, or 2013?  Has to be able to fit 7 grown people comfortably with cargo space and tow 7,000lbs, and be from a luxury brand.  Exclude other GM full size SUVs, as they are basically the same as the Slade.  The only one that I can think of in those time periods are the Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator, and that’s it.

I may be wrong, but towing capacity or even the number of seats were/are hardly the key selling points for new Escalade customers.

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were much better vehicles out there for the money.

Interesting, well now you have me curious, what was superior in 2008, or 2013?  Has to be able to fit 7 grown people comfortably with cargo space and tow 7,000lbs, and be from a luxury brand.  Exclude other GM full size SUVs, as they are basically the same as the Slade.  The only one that I can think of in those time periods are the Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator, and that’s it.

I may be wrong, but towing capacity or even the number of seats were/are hardly the key selling points for new Escalade customers.

Nice dodging of the question.

[evil_twin]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

And the Blackwings.

Escalade and the mid-size SUV (SRX, now XT5) keep the company alive. Slade's are popular everywhere, and the XT5s are extremely popular outside of city centers, at least in Ontario. Both good vehicles, and I imagine the profit margin on the Escalades is really rich given that most of the underpinnings are shared with the Chevy and GMC counterparts.

The Blackwings are niche though, they're cool, but not what's needed to pickup volume in on the car side of the equation.

Exactly. The Blackwings get tons of exposure in all the car mags, because track day toys, yet get crickets from the general market who is not even aware they exist. XT4, 5 and 6 is where the market is, with Escalade taking care of the traditional / livery buyer. The Lyriq shows the brand still has mass-appeal potential and resonates pretty well. CT4 and 5 could be pulled and no one would notice. The market just doesn't care about sedans anymore. The Lexus cars aren't selling, 5-series and up are vaporware, ditto E-Class and up at Benz. May be a bit different in Ontario, but here only the 3-Series and Model 3 appear to survice the lux SUV tidal wave - and I live in the city with the most per-capita luxury vehicles in the country. A lot of lux sedan buyers also moved to EVs, such as the Mach-E (4 or 5 on my street), Polestar 2 (two), EV6, Ioniq5 and such.

Crickets from the general market?  You realize how difficult these are to find right?  They sell every one they make months before they are built.  But they are limited numbers and fantastic marketing material to stay relevant, which to me is worth keeping around, at least until they are replaced by EVs.

Peronally, I love these things but ask Joe Public, and he'll know what an Escalade is, but will probably think a Blackwing is a motorcycle.

Agreed.   Yes, they sell every one they build, but they shipped something like 50 CT5-V BWs to Canada for 2022.  That's it.   Not sure on the CT4 numbers...

It's really not in the conversation.   Extremely cool product and send off for ICE sedans, but nothing that will mean anything to GM sales numbers.   Even as a Halo car (of sorts).

[Dante]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were much better vehicles out there for the money.

Interesting, well now you have me curious, what was superior in 2008, or 2013?  Has to be able to fit 7 grown people comfortably with cargo space and tow 7,000lbs, and be from a luxury brand.  Exclude other GM full size SUVs, as they are basically the same as the Slade.  The only one that I can think of in those time periods are the Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator, and that’s it.

I may be wrong, but towing capacity or even the number of seats were/are hardly the key selling points for new Escalade customers.

Nice dodging of the question.

No, not dodging the question, just giving my opinion. You are most likely correct saying it was nothing else out there that could meet those criteria, but I'm of the opinion that those were not at the top of the list for people buying a new Escalade. I can very well be wrong but I don't recall frequently seeing Escalades towing and most I see around seem to ferry normal size families....

[Firm]

The argument that new Escalade buyers are buying for status is strongest when you consider that a Chevy or GMC equivalent could be identical mechanically, and do everything that a Slade does, yet a Slade costs more. So there's no practical reason to opt for the Slade, you do it for the brand/status. Different story on the used market where prices are all over the map; if you're shopping used why not buy an Escalade over the other two for the same kinda $.

I think there is enough demand that they could probably double or triple output of the Blackwings, but yes it’s niche but also something that will be remembered decades from now.  The CUVs and Slade are what keeps the lights on.  I feel like their CUVs aren’t nearly as competitive as brands like Acura (MDX & RDX), Lexus (UX, RX, NX) or even Genesis.  The Slade is by are their best product, followed by their Blackwings, and then that EV CUV.

I actually think the CT5 is very competitive - having tested it, and most of the others in the segment, it's a winner for me. The CT4 and CT6, not so much.

[Dante]

The argument that new Escalade buyers are buying for status is strongest when you consider that a Chevy or GMC equivalent could be identical mechanically, and do everything that a Slade does, yet a Slade costs more. So there's no practical reason to opt for the Slade, you do it for the brand/status. Different story on the used market where prices are all over the map; if you're shopping used why not buy an Escalade over the other two for the same kinda $.

Exactly the point I was trying to make when I highlighted "new".

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were much better vehicles out there for the money.

Interesting, well now you have me curious, what was superior in 2008, or 2013?  Has to be able to fit 7 grown people comfortably with cargo space and tow 7,000lbs, and be from a luxury brand.  Exclude other GM full size SUVs, as they are basically the same as the Slade.  The only one that I can think of in those time periods are the Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator, and that’s it.

I may be wrong, but towing capacity or even the number of seats were/are hardly the key selling points for new Escalade customers.

Nice dodging of the question.

No, not dodging the question, just giving my opinion. You are most likely correct saying it was nothing else out there that could meet those criteria, but I'm of the opinion that those were not at the top of the list for people buying a new Escalade. I can very well be wrong but I don't recall frequently seeing Escalades towing and most I see around seem to ferry normal size families....

The point I was making is there there WEREN’T better options back then as none of the Germans, Italians, British, made a full size SUV.  Your choices were Slade (or other GM options), Navigator, and to a lesser degree the Lexus LX.  So your statement about there being better choices is false.   Nowadays there are more options, but was not the case 5-10 years ago.

[Dante]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were much better vehicles out there for the money.

Interesting, well now you have me curious, what was superior in 2008, or 2013?  Has to be able to fit 7 grown people comfortably with cargo space and tow 7,000lbs, and be from a luxury brand.  Exclude other GM full size SUVs, as they are basically the same as the Slade.  The only one that I can think of in those time periods are the Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator, and that’s it.

I may be wrong, but towing capacity or even the number of seats were/are hardly the key selling points for new Escalade customers.

Nice dodging of the question.

No, not dodging the question, just giving my opinion. You are most likely correct saying it was nothing else out there that could meet those criteria, but I'm of the opinion that those were not at the top of the list for people buying a new Escalade. I can very well be wrong but I don't recall frequently seeing Escalades towing and most I see around seem to ferry normal size families....

The point I was making is there there WEREN’T better options back then as none of the Germans, Italians, British, made a full size SUV.  Your choices were Slade (or other GM options), Navigator, and to a lesser degree the Lexus LX.  So your statement about there being better choices is false.   Nowadays there are more options, but was not the case 5-10 years ago.

Q7, MB GL, Range Rover were full size, no? Maybe not suitable for 7 adults and cargo or towing 10,000 lbs but still full size although not as big as Slade or siblings, but still sizeable... Were they "better"? It's up for debate, but they were out there as options at the time.

[PJungnitsch]

The argument that new Escalade buyers are buying for status is strongest when you consider that a Chevy or GMC equivalent could be identical mechanically, and do everything that a Slade does, yet a Slade costs more. So there's no practical reason to opt for the Slade, you do it for the brand/status.

Dominated movies/tv/music for decades too, at least anything set in the US. A black Escalade with blacked out windows is almost a cultural staple

[JohnnyMac]

Even look at the market today.....If you're a driving enthusiast and want a car that's going to satisfy you dynamically, you're more often than not in one of the German brands. If you're less of an enthusiast driver and just want a comfy luxury car, you're buying a Lexus.

Exception to that rule is the multi-car people...I have zero interest in a 'sporty' luxury barge because I have sports/performance cars in the fleet. So I'd rather have something at the other end of the spectrum.

Cadillac still can't get it figured out either....The CTX line skews very sporty, and you're just not going to displace the Germans in that space. They really should go back to building a 'better Lexus' - I think they still have the brand power to make a mark with the right cars.

They struck gold with the Escalade though...

I've always thought of Escalade as one very powerful example of brand recognition.... In my opinion, there were many bad years in its relatively recent history (last 20-30 years) where design and build quality in and out wasn't quite up to luxury expectations, yet people kept buying them as a status symbol more than anything else although they weren't cheap not to mention there were much better vehicles out there for the money.

Interesting, well now you have me curious, what was superior in 2008, or 2013?  Has to be able to fit 7 grown people comfortably with cargo space and tow 7,000lbs, and be from a luxury brand.  Exclude other GM full size SUVs, as they are basically the same as the Slade.  The only one that I can think of in those time periods are the Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator, and that’s it.

I may be wrong, but towing capacity or even the number of seats were/are hardly the key selling points for new Escalade customers.

Nice dodging of the question.

No, not dodging the question, just giving my opinion. You are most likely correct saying it was nothing else out there that could meet those criteria, but I'm of the opinion that those were not at the top of the list for people buying a new Escalade. I can very well be wrong but I don't recall frequently seeing Escalades towing and most I see around seem to ferry normal size families....

The point I was making is there there WEREN’T better options back then as none of the Germans, Italians, British, made a full size SUV.  Your choices were Slade (or other GM options), Navigator, and to a lesser degree the Lexus LX.  So your statement about there being better choices is false.   Nowadays there are more options, but was not the case 5-10 years ago.

Q7, MB GL, Range Rover were full size, no? Maybe not suitable for 7 adults and cargo or towing 10,000 lbs but still full size although not as big as Slade or siblings, but still sizeable... Were they "better"? It's up for debate, but they were out there as options at the time.

Those did indeed have a 3rd row, just none suitable for adults and zero cargo space.  The newer versions are a bit better but few really compete with true full size SUVs.