Topic: Manual Transmission EV?

[rrocket]

That would do the trick.. 

Geez...that's almost as dumb as calling an SUV "Mustang".   

[me_2]

Maybe an EV with an on-demand manual (and/or drift?) mode with a paddle or small shifter, to control an internal or external gearbox clutch pack with few different ratio, combined with AWD could potentially "bring" some extra level of control to the driver, like a manual Crosstrek on steroids could do 

On the electric motor side, with only one gear ratio, you have to make some compromise = sweet spot to obtain best efficiency range, the counter part is a lower than optimal available torque for acceleration purpose and so on... Some came on the market with a 2 speed gearbox but it is more an exception then the norm up to now..

[me_2]

That would do the trick.. 

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1149564964/ford-mustang-cup-holder-shifter-6th-gen?gbraid=0AAAAADutTMe-lIVD0Y03fkY7t2YkMLu5E&gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_ca_en_ca_d-toys_and_games-toys-other&utm_custom1=_k_Cj0KCQiA7bucBhCeARIsAIOwr-9ewRotOveODEK6-dmIzhsC42gOR8_EnrGe4cLtP8f5qDsp1bIW8EsaAr0tEALw_wcB_k_&utm_content=go_319637685_19444337565_75295121205_aud-1186969656603:pla-106552243955_t__1149564964enca_530182188&utm_custom2=319637685&gbraid=0AAAAADutTMe-lIVD0Y03fkY7t2YkMLu5E&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7bucBhCeARIsAIOwr-9ewRotOveODEK6-dmIzhsC42gOR8_EnrGe4cLtP8f5qDsp1bIW8EsaAr0tEALw_wcB

 

[rrocket]

Maybe an EV with an on-demand manual (and/or drift?) mode with a paddle or small shifter, to control an internal or external gearbox clutch pack with few different ratio, combined with AWD could potentially "bring" some extra level of control to the driver, like a manual Crosstrek on steroids could do 

On the electric motor side, with only one gear ratio, you have to make some compromise = sweet spot to obtain best efficiency range, the counter part is a lower than optimal available torque for acceleration purpose and so on... Some came on the market with a 2 speed gearbox but it is more an exception then the norm up to now..

Or you could do this:  An ICE engine powered by hydrogen with a manual transmission.  FWIW, Toyota has the refuelling down to 90 seconds instead of the previous 5 minutes.

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/06/toyota-corolla-cross-h2-hydrogen-combustion-prototype-testing/

[PJungnitsch]

Maybe in real life it 'just works', sounds like the Lexus engineers were as surprised as anyone

the prototype was "so much fun that the project is now under serious development and it might actually be on future BEVs." Indeed, when the driver changes gear, the hand-held camera even jerks a little, confirming that it behaves like a stick-shift ICE car.

[JohnnyMac]

Maybe in real life it 'just works', sounds like the Lexus engineers were as surprised as anyone

the prototype was "so much fun that the project is now under serious development and it might actually be on future BEVs." Indeed, when the driver changes gear, the hand-held camera even jerks a little, confirming that it behaves like a stick-shift ICE car.

Lexus engineers getting excited about something like this is not really the same as a regular car enthusiast being excited.

Honestly, I’m not sure the ultra linear power delivery and lack of engine/mechanical noise will make it less enjoyable.

I just want it to embrace the silent speed but match ICE vehicle handling and road feel.  That’s where I hope the EV Porsche Boxster and Cayman can achieve this.

[me_2]

Imho, the main problem I see with hydrogen with cars, either fuel cell or combustion engine, the intrinsic overall long chain for production & distribution is a total waste has way too much energy losses along the entire process to make any environnemental & economical sense... You can install your own solar system & stationary battery at home if you want to be independant, with hydrogen you can't. Big ship, long distance plane maybe, I have no real knowledge into this.

[EV Dan]

Maybe in real life it 'just works', sounds like the Lexus engineers were as surprised as anyone

the prototype was "so much fun that the project is now under serious development and it might actually be on future BEVs." Indeed, when the driver changes gear, the hand-held camera even jerks a little, confirming that it behaves like a stick-shift ICE car.

If there is a task of making such an EV that would closely resemble the experience of driving a stick shift ICE car, then besides the fake engine noise they will have to add engine vibration, obviously linked to RPM, but MOST importantly, they would have to artificially modify the motor's TQ curve, so the car would feel weak close to zero RPM or when in a wrong gear, and on top of that, the torque curve would need the typical dips and spikes, like found in an ICE. Combine all three "mods" and we'll have a gear-head EV but then it begs a question: why not just build the real thing?

[rrocket]

Lexus engineers getting excited about something like this is not really the same as a regular car enthusiast being excited.

Stupid thing to say IMO.

Lots of people become car engineers because they are car nuts.  Even if they work for a luxury car company. (BTW...You need to read up on some of the Lexus engineers....they have more enthusiast cred than most enthusiasts.)

FFS...the president of Toyota is one of the biggest car nuts in the entire industry.

But beyond that...if you read the article...it was just FUN rowing your own gears in an EV.

That's something every engineer (car nut or not) can understand. 

[rrocket]

Maybe in real life it 'just works', sounds like the Lexus engineers were as surprised as anyone

the prototype was "so much fun that the project is now under serious development and it might actually be on future BEVs." Indeed, when the driver changes gear, the hand-held camera even jerks a little, confirming that it behaves like a stick-shift ICE car.

If there is a task of making such an EV that would closely resemble the experience of driving a stick shift ICE car, then besides the fake engine noise they will have to add engine vibration, obviously linked to RPM, but MOST importantly, they would have to artificially modify the motor's TQ curve, so the car would feel weak close to zero RPM or when in a wrong gear, and on top of that, the torque curve would need the typical dips and spikes, like found in an ICE. Combine all three "mods" and we'll have a gear-head EV but then it begs a question: why not just build the real thing?

Haven't you been following along?

ICE cars are going to be banned in many countries in the coming years.

[EV Dan]

Maybe in real life it 'just works', sounds like the Lexus engineers were as surprised as anyone

the prototype was "so much fun that the project is now under serious development and it might actually be on future BEVs." Indeed, when the driver changes gear, the hand-held camera even jerks a little, confirming that it behaves like a stick-shift ICE car.

If there is a task of making such an EV that would closely resemble the experience of driving a stick shift ICE car, then besides the fake engine noise they will have to add engine vibration, obviously linked to RPM, but MOST importantly, they would have to artificially modify the motor's TQ curve, so the car would feel weak close to zero RPM or when in a wrong gear, and on top of that, the torque curve would need the typical dips and spikes, like found in an ICE. Combine all three "mods" and we'll have a gear-head EV but then it begs a question: why not just build the real thing?

Haven't you been following along?

ICE cars are going to be banned in many countries in the coming years.

I have and I hope they won't ban them outright. Just like with vintage cars, there is a chance you should be allowed to build and drive for limited distances at certain times or places a custom built car with a V8 and a stick, or at least a restored classic with a modern engine. It will be a sad day if no-one can but they'd allow private passenger EV drones with 10x the energy use... 

[rrocket]

I have and I hope they won't ban them outright. Just like with vintage cars, there is a chance you should be allowed to build and drive for limited distances at certain times or places a custom built car with a V8 and a stick, or at least a restored classic with a modern engine. It will be a sad day if no-one can but they'd allow private passenger EV drones with 10x the energy use... 

Yes, I think all of that will work.  I haven't read that cars currently on the road will be banned.  Just NEW car sales of ICE.

So remember...this is Toyota preparing a NEW car.  In the coming years, new ICE cars are supposed to be banned.  So that's why it won't be "the real thing".

So that's why they are at least looking at this project....whether or not it happens is anyone's guess.

[EV Dan]

I have and I hope they won't ban them outright. Just like with vintage cars, there is a chance you should be allowed to build and drive for limited distances at certain times or places a custom built car with a V8 and a stick, or at least a restored classic with a modern engine. It will be a sad day if no-one can but they'd allow private passenger EV drones with 10x the energy use... 

Yes, I think all of that will work.  I haven't read that cars currently on the road will be banned.  Just NEW car sales of ICE.

So remember...this is Toyota preparing a NEW car.  In the coming years, new ICE cars are supposed to be banned.  So that's why it won't be "the real thing".

So that's why they are at least looking at this project....whether or not it happens is anyone's guess.

If they look at offering a manual in a today's car as too much of a bother then it is doubtful they would be keen to invest in something with marginal future demand. Maybe some niche car makers will. Basically, like I said, it's is a matter of mapping a motor controller to copy an ICE torque and power curve, plus the noise and engine vibration generators, plus the third pedal. Dammit, now I'm excited. How fun would it be to program in an "engine stall" mode feature when starting off a wrong gear 

[JohnnyMac]

Lexus engineers getting excited about something like this is not really the same as a regular car enthusiast being excited.

Stupid thing to say IMO.

Lots of people become car engineers because they are car nuts.  Even if they work for a luxury car company. (BTW...You need to read up on some of the Lexus engineers....they have more enthusiast cred than most enthusiasts.)

FFS...the president of Toyota is one of the biggest car nuts in the entire industry.

But beyond that...if you read the article...it was just FUN rowing your own gears in an EV.

That's something every engineer (car nut or not) can understand.

What I was trying to imply is that they aren't exactly an unbiased opinion, and it's not like handing the keys to your regular Joe car enthusiast to get their opinion.  The Toyota engineers will have a vested interest in this being good because they developed it, plus some engineers can get pretty worked up over the complexity of something and the challenge and not necessarily the end product.  That's all I'm saying.  Give me the keys and I'll tell you if it's any good.