Topic: Manual Transmission EV?

[rrocket]

I'll believe it when I see it!!

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/05/lexus-electrified-sports-flagship-car-manual-transmission/

[JohnnyMac]

I'll believe it when I see it!!

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/05/lexus-electrified-sports-flagship-car-manual-transmission/

Hmmm, so without the noise, would you be using the RPM's to determine when to shift?  Brings up another interesting question, would you rather have a manual on an EV or hydraulic steering (more road feel)?  I think I'd actually choose more road feel than a manual.  But that's just me.

[WP v3.32]

That is a gorgeous design.

[Fobroader]

Just revive the V10 out of the LFA, say you did some environmental BS to it to keep the hippies happy and shove it into that concept, its way too beautiful to stick something as crap as an EV drivetrain into.

[EV Dan]

I don't see why an EV would need a gear box with the TQ curve of any decent electric motor. Unless it's a mining truck it's pointless IMHO.

+1 for the hydraulic steering, for as long as it's not flushed by a hyundai dealer 

[rrocket]

I don't see why an EV would need a gear box with the TQ curve of any decent electric motor. Unless it's a mining truck it's pointless IMHO.

+1 for the hydraulic steering, for as long as it's not flushed by a hyundai dealer 

You clearly don't understand the joy of driving a manual transmission car then.  Also...EVs are pretty dull to drive, so this would add something back that's been lost in the experience.  To at least bring back a tiny bit of joy of driving.

Move along...this isn't for you.

[EV Dan]

I don't see why an EV would need a gear box with the TQ curve of any decent electric motor. Unless it's a mining truck it's pointless IMHO.

+1 for the hydraulic steering, for as long as it's not flushed by a hyundai dealer 

You clearly don't understand the joy of driving a manual transmission car then.  Also...EVs are pretty dull to drive, so this would add something back that's been lost in the experience.  To at least bring back a tiny bit of joy of driving.

Move along...this isn't for you.

I have years of experience driving a manual so I get the excitement it brings. However, having a stick paired to an ICE, no matter how powerful, was a result of an engineering necessity, only much later when slush boxes came about, did we find out how much more fun a manual transmission can be. Nevertheless, adding one to an otherwise self-sufficient powertrain is a waste of time. It might help with off-the line acceleration, for as long as 0-60 is done in the same gear, or possibly extend cruising range on a charge in high gear, but I just doubt it would be as much fun rowing though gears in an EV as it is in an ICE sports car, where mastering a skill of extracting maximum TQ and power from a well built engine result in a ton of smiles per mile.

[rrocket]

Nevertheless, adding one to an otherwise self-sufficient powertrain is a waste of time.

I don't think it's a waste at all for a performance EV.

Particularly if the virtue signallers get their way and ban ICE cars.

A manual EV of this type is more preferable to an auto EV for me.

[JohnnyMac]

How about we agree that it is an interesting idea but will have to wait for a real life test before determining if it was a waste of time or not.  Ron thinks it’ll be closer to a manual ICE performance car, EV Dan thinks it’ll be like shifting gears on a dishwasher.  I want to believe Ron, but won’t be shocked if it turns out like EV Dan expects.

[EV Dan]

Nevertheless, adding one to an otherwise self-sufficient powertrain is a waste of time.

I don't think it's a waste at all for a performance EV.

Particularly if the virtue signallers get their way and ban ICE cars.

A manual EV of this type is more preferable to an auto EV for me.

LOL, there is no such thing as an "auto" EV. There is always a direct drive from the rotor to wheels, often through reduction gears but still, no torque converter.

[EV Dan]

How about we agree that it is an interesting idea but will have to wait for a real life test before determining if it was a waste of time or not.  Ron thinks it’ll be closer to a manual ICE performance car, EV Dan thinks it’ll be like shifting gears on a dishwasher.  I want to believe Ron, but won’t be shocked if it turns out like EV Dan expects.

Amen to that 

[rrocket]

LOL, there is no such thing as an "auto" EV. There is always a direct drive from the rotor to wheels, often through reduction gears but still, no torque converter.

Sigh.

It's a colloquial term used for not shifting gears and letting the car do it's thing.

I'm well aware of how EVs work.

[Guy]

Honestly I’m really not sure what that would accomplish… 

[rrocket]

How about we agree that it is an interesting idea but will have to wait for a real life test before determining if it was a waste of time or not.  Ron thinks it’ll be closer to a manual ICE performance car, EV Dan thinks it’ll be like shifting gears on a dishwasher.  I want to believe Ron, but won’t be shocked if it turns out like EV Dan expects.

No, I don't think that.

I just think it adds back some man-machine interface (or joy of driving) that gets lost when driving an EV. 

EVs are soulless appliances. 

This could mitigate that, somewhat, for the people that care about such things.  And I'm guessing people who dig sports cars...will care.

[EV Dan]

LOL, there is no such thing as an "auto" EV. There is always a direct drive from the rotor to wheels, often through reduction gears but still, no torque converter.

Sigh.

It's a colloquial term used for not shifting gears and letting the car do it's thing.

I'm well aware of how EVs work.

Yanking your chain 

letting the car do it's thing

There is no "thing" to be done though    (if it's an EV)

[JohnnyMac]

How about we agree that it is an interesting idea but will have to wait for a real life test before determining if it was a waste of time or not.  Ron thinks it’ll be closer to a manual ICE performance car, EV Dan thinks it’ll be like shifting gears on a dishwasher.  I want to believe Ron, but won’t be shocked if it turns out like EV Dan expects.

No, I don't think that.

I just think it adds back some man-machine interface (or joy of driving) that gets lost when driving an EV. 

EVs are soulless appliances. 

This could mitigate that, somewhat, for the people that care about such things.  And I'm guessing people who dig sports cars...will care.

I was only saying you are thinking it will be “closer” to that experience, in the sense that you have that mechanical connection, not that it would be exactly the same.  I was trying to highlight you guys being on opposite ends in terms of expectations, which can’t be confirmed until a real life test is done with a close to production model.

[rrocket]

How about we agree that it is an interesting idea but will have to wait for a real life test before determining if it was a waste of time or not.  Ron thinks it’ll be closer to a manual ICE performance car, EV Dan thinks it’ll be like shifting gears on a dishwasher.  I want to believe Ron, but won’t be shocked if it turns out like EV Dan expects.

No, I don't think that.

I just think it adds back some man-machine interface (or joy of driving) that gets lost when driving an EV. 

EVs are soulless appliances. 

This could mitigate that, somewhat, for the people that care about such things.  And I'm guessing people who dig sports cars...will care.

I was only saying you are thinking it will be “closer” to that experience, in the sense that you have that mechanical connection, not that it would be exactly the same.  I was trying to highlight you guys being on opposite ends in terms of expectations, which can’t be confirmed until a real life test is done with a close to production model.

And I don't think Toyota will be the only one. 

Like...the next gen Boxster and Cayman are alleged to be EV only (and at some point the 911 will go the same way).  Which is tremendously sucky.

A manual version of these EV appliances would help mitigate the suck IMO.

[EV Dan]

FWIW there are EV supercars with a 2 speed gearbox, IIRC a Porsche or maybe a Rimac? One gear for normal everyday driving and one for a track / 0-60 and beyond , where there is a benefit of having two ratios and switching between them. And yet a performance Model S does just fine without a gearbox while posting sub 2 sec times. Having more gears might be an overkill, unless the shifting experience is accompanied by a carburated 427ci engine note.

[Guy]

That would do the trick.. 

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1149564964/ford-mustang-cup-holder-shifter-6th-gen?gbraid=0AAAAADutTMe-lIVD0Y03fkY7t2YkMLu5E&gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_ca_en_ca_d-toys_and_games-toys-other&utm_custom1=_k_Cj0KCQiA7bucBhCeARIsAIOwr-9ewRotOveODEK6-dmIzhsC42gOR8_EnrGe4cLtP8f5qDsp1bIW8EsaAr0tEALw_wcB_k_&utm_content=go_319637685_19444337565_75295121205_aud-1186969656603:pla-106552243955_t__1149564964enca_530182188&utm_custom2=319637685&gbraid=0AAAAADutTMe-lIVD0Y03fkY7t2YkMLu5E&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7bucBhCeARIsAIOwr-9ewRotOveODEK6-dmIzhsC42gOR8_EnrGe4cLtP8f5qDsp1bIW8EsaAr0tEALw_wcB

[rrocket]

FWIW there are EV supercars with a 2 speed gearbox, IIRC a Porsche or maybe a Rimac? One gear for normal everyday driving and one for a track / 0-60 and beyond , where there is a benefit of having two ratios and switching between them. And yet a performance Model S does just fine without a gearbox while posting sub 2 sec times. Having more gears might be an overkill, unless the shifting experience is accompanied by a carburated 427ci engine note.

For that matter, there's no point in having a manual in ANY car if you're just looking at 0-60, MPG and raw data.  Autoboxes are so, so good these days that they typically outperform a manual in most every regard.

They exist solely because of the man/machine interface and joy of rowing your own gears.

And for some people (and manufacturers) that's reason enough to keep building them.

And I'm happy for that.