Topic: Supra manual test results

[Layne]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a41096194/2023-toyota-gr-supra-manual-drive/

Lets just say that it renders the performance of the new Z manual irrelevant.

[dkaz]

Still can't beat the joys of pure connection with the car.

[JohnnyMac]

Yup, the Nissan Z is kind of irrelevant now that the Supra has a manual.  Very good performance.  I can only imagine how fast it would be with a tune.  Man I wish our Toyota dealer here was so .

[Layne]

Still can't beat the joys of pure connection with the car.

Indeed!

[Fobroader]

Having seen a few of these running around I'm becoming more of a fan of the looks. Now with a proper transmission, this is looking more and more tempting.

[quadzilla]

Seems like a lot of extra money for a little more performance   

Supra - From $68,640
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.4 sec @ 114 mph

400Z - Starting at $46,498 (Sport) / $58,498 (Performance)
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.0 @ 111 mph

* Real world street performance will be even closer and would come down to how you like the feel of the car when going at 4/10ths it limit 98% of the time.

[Jaeger]

Seems like a lot of extra money for a little more performance   

Supra - From $68,640
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.4 sec @ 114 mph

400Z - Starting at $46,498 (Sport) / $58,498 (Performance)
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.0 @ 111 mph

* Real world street performance will be even closer and would come down to how you like the feel of the car when going at 4/10ths it limit 98% of the time.

Stat sheet racers gonna do what they gonna do.

[quadzilla]

Seems like a lot of extra money for a little more performance   

Supra - From $68,640
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.4 sec @ 114 mph

400Z - Starting at $46,498 (Sport) / $58,498 (Performance)
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.0 @ 111 mph

* Real world street performance will be even closer and would come down to how you like the feel of the car when going at 4/10ths it limit 98% of the time.

Stat sheet racers gonna do what they gonna do.

Yep

[Jaeger]

Seems like a lot of extra money for a little more performance   

Supra - From $68,640
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.4 sec @ 114 mph

400Z - Starting at $46,498 (Sport) / $58,498 (Performance)
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.0 @ 111 mph

* Real world street performance will be even closer and would come down to how you like the feel of the car when going at 4/10ths it limit 98% of the time.

Stat sheet racers gonna do what they gonna do.

Yep

 

[evil_twin]

Having seen a few of these running around I'm becoming more of a fan of the looks. Now with a proper transmission, this is looking more and more tempting.

Agreed - I really like the look of the Supra and would definitely pay a premium for it over the Z.    Now that it has a (nice) manual, I think it'd definitely be my choice in the sub-$80 coupe range.

[rrocket]

Having seen a few of these running around I'm becoming more of a fan of the looks. Now with a proper transmission, this is looking more and more tempting.

Agreed - I really like the look of the Supra and would definitely pay a premium for it over the Z.    Now that it has a (nice) manual, I think it'd definitely be my choice in the sub-$80 coupe range.

Same.

And losing by .6 on the big end isn't losing by "a little".

And I know in the real world I'd be even quicker..since leaving the line at 5mph means you're not leaving under any boost.

[Fobroader]

Having seen a few of these running around I'm becoming more of a fan of the looks. Now with a proper transmission, this is looking more and more tempting.

Agreed - I really like the look of the Supra and would definitely pay a premium for it over the Z.    Now that it has a (nice) manual, I think it'd definitely be my choice in the sub-$80 coupe range.

Same.

And losing by .6 on the big end isn't losing by "a little".

And I know in the real world I'd be even quicker..since leaving the line at 5mph means you're not leaving under any boost.

For me its looks too, every pic I've seen of the new Z, I would take the Supra.

[JohnnyMac]

Having seen a few of these running around I'm becoming more of a fan of the looks. Now with a proper transmission, this is looking more and more tempting.

Agreed - I really like the look of the Supra and would definitely pay a premium for it over the Z.    Now that it has a (nice) manual, I think it'd definitely be my choice in the sub-$80 coupe range.

Same.

And losing by .6 on the big end isn't losing by "a little".

And I know in the real world I'd be even quicker..since leaving the line at 5mph means you're not leaving under any boost.

What a difference a manual can make.  Literally zero interest prior to adding that, and now I prefer it over the Z.

[dkaz]

How did Toyota convince BMW to release a manual Supra when BMW won't offer manual Z4s?

[rrocket]

How did Toyota convince BMW to release a manual Supra when BMW won't offer manual Z4s?

The Supra is Toyota's car..not BMWs. That's been the agreement.

Toyota is free to do what they want development wise with the Supra just as BMW is free to do what they want with the Z4. Been that way since day one.

[JohnnyMac]

How did Toyota convince BMW to release a manual Supra when BMW won't offer manual Z4s?

The Supra is Toyota's car..not BMWs. That's been the agreement.

Toyota is free to do what they want development wise with the Supra just as BMW is free to do what they want with the Z4. Been that way since day one.

That brings about a good question, where did they source the manual?  Is it the same that was in the previous M2?  What other vehicles have this manual?

[rrocket]

How did Toyota convince BMW to release a manual Supra when BMW won't offer manual Z4s?

The Supra is Toyota's car..not BMWs. That's been the agreement.

Toyota is free to do what they want development wise with the Supra just as BMW is free to do what they want with the Z4. Been that way since day one.

That brings about a good question, where did they source the manual?  Is it the same that was in the previous M2?  What other vehicles have this manual?

Toyota worked with ZF on the tranny to get a manual with the specs they needed.

Some of the parts existed already..and those were mated to things like a modified tranny housing, driveshaft, new clutch, etc.

While it shares some components with other ZF trannies (most notably the GS6L40LZ used in the 4 banger Z4)., the transmission is unique to the Supra and only used by the Supra.

Internally known as "GS6L50TZ".

[Ontariodriver]

Just Lovely and reliable as any old Toyota. I drove MK2, Celica Supra manual in the UK. I Remember it always seem to have a long throws.

[Layne]

Seems like a lot of extra money for a little more performance   

Supra - From $68,640
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.4 sec @ 114 mph

400Z - Starting at $46,498 (Sport) / $58,498 (Performance)
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.0 @ 111 mph

* Real world street performance will be even closer and would come down to how you like the feel of the car when going at 4/10ths it limit 98% of the time.

Those are measured differences in the real world.

Look at the top gear times to see the difference in engine flexibility and turbo lag.

But did you read the review?  The manual does not shake and rattle like the Z, has shorter throws, better engagement, etc.  Apart from the spec sheet, it appears to feel better.

[Layne]

Seems like a lot of extra money for a little more performance   

Supra - From $68,640
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.4 sec @ 114 mph

400Z - Starting at $46,498 (Sport) / $58,498 (Performance)
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.3 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.0 @ 111 mph

* Real world street performance will be even closer and would come down to how you like the feel of the car when going at 4/10ths it limit 98% of the time.

15 ft better braking from 70 mph.  0.10 better on the skid pad.  Better fuel mileage. Quicker.  Faster.  Significantly better fit and finish.  How do you measure performance?