Topic: my car is completely obsolete

[Hannibalsmith]

On the flipside modern cars are:

- Safer
- More reliable
- Less polluting
- Easier to use

Would be nice for manufacturers to offer basic cars with safety and efficiency but without all the gizmos and features. Base Maverick comes to mind.

[warp]

On my wish list I would like to buy a Camaro 2SS with the manual transmission, before the Camaro ends production as a 2024 model. No packages other than maybe the 1LE suspension package and that is to get the Magnetic Ride Control shocks, but that is not a must have option. It is a completely obsolete car by the definition of this thread: naturally aspirated, fuel guzzling V8 engine, check, rwd, check, manual transmission, check. Just like my Yukon XL. Got to hang on to such vehicles because they represent the essence of driving pleasure.

K2XX SUVs are another good example, maximum refinement and really impressive efficiency, but with traditional body on frame and a solid rear axle. I'd have that over the new independent rear suspension units. For a workhorse like these, the solid rear axle can't be beat in terms of reliability, durability and ease of maintenance.

Absolutely, just look at the attributes; large naturally aspirated low stress V8 which will last forever, GM's tried and trusted 6 speed automatic (much more reliable than the short lived 8 speed on some later trims) and that solid rear axle. I have ~155K kms on mine and it is as tight as a drum!!

[OliverD]

I completely agree with you. This general mindset is what pushed me over the edge in buying the IS 500 - a certain type of car just doesn't exist anymore and if it does today, let's do our part to buy what we love to prevent them from going completely extinct. I like naturally aspirated V8s, and Mrs. Hire likes wagons. Realistically those respective cars we have now are the east of that type that we'll have...

I was loosely looking at manual Chevy SS classifieds in the states a few weeks ago; those are cool.

Yeah, I was thinking about the IS 500 as well. I'm not a big Lexus fan but I have a huge appreciation for the fact that Lexus introduced a small sedan with a V8 and RWD in 2021. I do love the GS F.

[OliverD]

Your list of vehicles that you are interested in currently is shocking low.

I forgot about a few: M2, M3, and the Blackwings.

I'm always thinking about what to get next and I'm not really sure what it will be. My wife really wants another Mini but we certainly don't need a second "practical" (in the sense that it's a year round daily driver) car. But I could see us getting a used S or JCW sooner than later. I'd love a Bronco but that also doesn't make much sense. Regardless of what we do get down the road I don't think getting rid of the wagon makes a ton of sense although I could probably get good money for it on BaT. We're gonna hit 200k on it this summer and I'm thinking a suspension refresh is in its future.

What I really want is a Porsche of some kind but honestly I've stopped even looking at used ones because the values are insane right now. Used to be you could get a very nice Cayman for under $30k which I think is fairly easy to justify.

Ultimate four car solution:
- the wagon
- Bronco Sasquatch package two door
- Mini JCW
- Porsche Cayman or 911

That's not asking for too much, is it? 

[OliverD]

On the flipside modern cars are:

- Safer
- More reliable
- Less polluting
- Easier to use

Would be nice for manufacturers to offer basic cars with safety and efficiency but without all the gizmos and features. Base Maverick comes to mind.

Yeah, the Maverick is a great product. I think Ford really nailed it with that one. Much of its appeal lies in its simplicity.

[warp]

I forgot about a few: M2, M3,and ...

I was also drooling over the current M3, it ticked all the boxes.... 4 door sedan, manual transmission, rwd, that is until they revealed the snout!!



Why couldn't BMW have their normal front end on the M3 like the M2:

[Dante]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

[warp]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

That ideal car for me was the short lived Chevrolet SS, although it had GM's 6.2 liter V8, not a 6 cylinder. 4 door sedan, manual transmission option, naturally aspirated V8, rwd, it had it all and it was not a premium/luxury ride. But GM in it's wisdom only sold that car in North America long enough to satisfy it's production obligation to the Australian Government for GM's Holden operations in Australia. The SS was a thinly disguised export version of GM Australia's domestic Holden Commodore. And as soon as GM's Australian operations were wound up, the SS ceased to exist in North America.

[OliverD]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

No Subarus could be had with the H6 and manual but there's one you're forgetting: The Jaguar X-type! Both the 2.5 and 3.0 models could be had with a manual and they had standard AWD.

There's a handful of others that offered a manual with a naturally aspirated six and RWD but the AWD versions of those cars were all automatics: Cadillac CTS, Infiniti G35, Lexus IS.

[Dante]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

That ideal car for me was the short lived Chevrolet SS, although it had GM's 6.2 liter V8, not a 6 cylinder. 4 door sedan, manual transmission option, naturally aspirated V8, rwd, it had it all and it was not a premium/luxury ride. But GM in it's wisdom only sold that car in North America long enough to satisfy it's production obligation to the Australian Government for GM's Holden operations in Australia. The SS was a thinly disguised export version of GM Australia's domestic Holden Commodore. And as soon as GM's Australian operations were wound up, the SS ceased to exist in North America.

Oh yeah, I remember those.... I really liked and still do to some extent the predecessor - Pontiac G8... It looked rather refreshing at the time as it didn't look much like a regular GM.... 

[warp]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

No Subarus could be had with the H6 and manual but there's one you're forgetting: The Jaguar X-type! Both the 2.5 and 3.0 models could be had with a manual and they had standard AWD.

There's a handful of others that offered a manual with a naturally aspirated six and RWD but the AWD versions of those cars were all automatics: Cadillac CTS, Infiniti G35, Lexus IS.

It has been quite common for FWD based cars to add AWD on demand with a manual transmission and either a  4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engine. The Jag X type had a FWD architecture and was available in FWD guise in Europe, although sold as AWD in North America. But I cannot think of any RWD based cars that have optional AWD with a manual transmission. In such cases the manual transmission is available only with RWD i.e. current BMW M3 plus the examples you mentioned. Is there an engineering problem with this offering or are the development and certification costs not worth it given the potentially low take rate?

[ktm525]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

That ideal car for me was the short lived Chevrolet SS, although it had GM's 6.2 liter V8, not a 6 cylinder. 4 door sedan, manual transmission option, naturally aspirated V8, rwd, it had it all and it was not a premium/luxury ride. But GM in it's wisdom only sold that car in North America long enough to satisfy it's production obligation to the Australian Government for GM's Holden operations in Australia. The SS was a thinly disguised export version of GM Australia's domestic Holden Commodore. And as soon as GM's Australian operations were wound up, the SS ceased to exist in North America.

Oh yeah, I remember those.... I really liked and still do to some extent the predecessor - Pontiac G8... It looked rather refreshing at the time as it didn't look much like a regular GM....

Owned a G8 GT (the non GTs were the V6 hair dresser version). Great proportions, good handling. Build quality was horrible. A nightmare if things broke because everything other than the drivetrain sourced from Australia. The G*s were hobbled by the horrible DOD (displacement on demand and a slow shifting 6 speed automatic. Some wizardry fixed the displacement issue but the only way to get around the auto was to go import a GXP from the US.

[ktm525]

Going forward I really have no interest in any of the new glass cockpit cars, electronic uber nannies and blender engines so It looks like I will be shopping used.

[Dante]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

No Subarus could be had with the H6 and manual but there's one you're forgetting: The Jaguar X-type! Both the 2.5 and 3.0 models could be had with a manual and they had standard AWD.

There's a handful of others that offered a manual with a naturally aspirated six and RWD but the AWD versions of those cars were all automatics: Cadillac CTS, Infiniti G35, Lexus IS.

The C Class had V6 manual in late 2000s but RWD only.

[HeliDriver]

As long as we’re going full-obsolete, I want RWD over AWD.

I almost bought a 328i wagon back in 2010, but they only sold the xDrive in Canada. I looked  into getting a RWD one from the States, but it was basically impossible as I’d have had to special order.

In hindsight, I kinda wish I’d bought a 128i instead of the GTI. I thought I needed the practicality of a hatchback, but I could have made do without it.

BMW hasn’t made anything since that interests me, and I don’t expect they will in the future either.

[JohnnyMac]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

You know what 6 cylinder, manual, AWD sedan I would love to have… Last generation Audi S4.  Sure it’s not naturally aspirated but supercharged engines are just as rare and offer similar experience.  A guy I work with has one and he did an APR stage 2 tune, software and hardware on it and it makes a lot of power and has been quite reliable for him.  I talk to him all the time about what he will buy next, he only wants AWD and manual set up and refuses to get something with less performance.  So his only real option is a 911 4S, but he is in no hurry as used prices for Porsche are crazy right now.

No Subarus could be had with the H6 and manual but there's one you're forgetting: The Jaguar X-type! Both the 2.5 and 3.0 models could be had with a manual and they had standard AWD.

There's a handful of others that offered a manual with a naturally aspirated six and RWD but the AWD versions of those cars were all automatics: Cadillac CTS, Infiniti G35, Lexus IS.

The C Class had V6 manual in late 2000s but RWD only.

[TheHire]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

That ideal car for me was the short lived Chevrolet SS, although it had GM's 6.2 liter V8, not a 6 cylinder. 4 door sedan, manual transmission option, naturally aspirated V8, rwd, it had it all and it was not a premium/luxury ride. But GM in it's wisdom only sold that car in North America long enough to satisfy it's production obligation to the Australian Government for GM's Holden operations in Australia. The SS was a thinly disguised export version of GM Australia's domestic Holden Commodore. And as soon as GM's Australian operations were wound up, the SS ceased to exist in North America.

The 2006-2007ish A4 (early B7) had the 3.2 V6 + 6MT combo, with Quattro. That was a neat car.

[quadzilla]

I think IQ (Ron's partner) has an A5 Quattro V6 manual .

[TheHire]

I think IQ (Ron's partner) has an A5 Quattro V6 manual .

Huh, neat. I didn't know theirs was a 3.2 - thought it was a 2.0 6MT.

I don't think the B8 A4 (2008-2009+) got the V6, but I may be wrong. Q5s got the 3.2 V6 though.

[rrocket]

This thread got me thinking again about one thing....

Which "regular" cars (not high performance cars or versions of the car) sold in North America after 2000 had this exact combo: NA 6-cyl+Manual+AWD?

The only ones I can think of are BMWs and Audi A4 (2000-2005). Are there any other ones out there? I guess Subaru might've had the Legacy or Outback at some point but were they manual with H6?

That ideal car for me was the short lived Chevrolet SS, although it had GM's 6.2 liter V8, not a 6 cylinder. 4 door sedan, manual transmission option, naturally aspirated V8, rwd, it had it all and it was not a premium/luxury ride. But GM in it's wisdom only sold that car in North America long enough to satisfy it's production obligation to the Australian Government for GM's Holden operations in Australia. The SS was a thinly disguised export version of GM Australia's domestic Holden Commodore. And as soon as GM's Australian operations were wound up, the SS ceased to exist in North America.

Oh yeah, I remember those.... I really liked and still do to some extent the predecessor - Pontiac G8... It looked rather refreshing at the time as it didn't look much like a regular GM....

Owned a G8 GT (the non GTs were the V6 hair dresser version). Great proportions, good handling. Build quality was horrible. A nightmare if things broke because everything other than the drivetrain sourced from Australia. The G*s were hobbled by the horrible DOD (displacement on demand and a slow shifting 6 speed automatic. Some wizardry fixed the displacement issue but the only way to get around the auto was to go import a GXP from the US.

Was it you who had the sunroof explode?