Topic: 2023 Toyota Sequoia

[ArticSteve]

I think Toyota has something called auto LSD which they used in that generation of Tundras and Sequoias.

"Auto LSD" was always BS.  Essentially the ABS system was deployed. 

So one will now need to buy the off road package just to get a real locker which is rarely used but still essential for those odd occasions.  Would a $500 locking diff. option be that difficult for Toyota if ppl don't want the appearance or expense of an off road package. 

Toyota is still stingy with their resources.  Disappointing not to see an AWD version and what's with the solid rear axle?  Toyota cheapness.

However, Nissan is no better.  For NA  Nissan deleted the rear locker on the Armada.   

[valuator]

I think Toyota has something called auto LSD which they used in that generation of Tundras and Sequoias.

"Auto LSD" was always BS.  Essentially the ABS system was deployed. 

So one will now need to buy the off road package just to get a real locker which is rarely used but still essential for those odd occasions.  Would a $500 locking diff. option be that difficult for Toyota if ppl don't want the appearance or expense of an off road package. 

Toyota is still stingy with their resources.  Disappointing not to see an AWD version and what's with the solid rear axle?  Toyota cheapness.

However, Nissan is no better.  For NA  Nissan deleted the rear locker on the Armada.

I didn't catch the lack of AWD.  That's a big miss in this segment.

[warp]

I think Toyota has something called auto LSD which they used in that generation of Tundras and Sequoias.

Toyota is still stingy with their resources.  Disappointing not to see an AWD version and what's with the solid rear axle?  Toyota cheapness.

However, Nissan is no better.  For NA  Nissan deleted the rear locker on the Armada.

I was watching Alex on Auto's review of the new LX-600 which is essentially the new Land Cruiser. He said that the LX has a centre diff but the front and rear axle have the brake actuated LSD. In the rest of the world the Land Cruiser gets true locking front, centre and rear differentials!!

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I think Toyota has something called auto LSD which they used in that generation of Tundras and Sequoias.

"Auto LSD" was always BS.  Essentially the ABS system was deployed. 

So one will now need to buy the off road package just to get a real locker which is rarely used but still essential for those odd occasions.  Would a $500 locking diff. option be that difficult for Toyota if ppl don't want the appearance or expense of an off road package. 

Toyota is still stingy with their resources.  Disappointing not to see an AWD version and what's with the solid rear axle?  Toyota cheapness.

However, Nissan is no better.  For NA  Nissan deleted the rear locker on the Armada.

With a 9000lb tow rating, I would want nothing but a solid axle.  On an IFS setup, when you load up that rear axle, you get a lot of negative camber.  This is bad for the tires, and affects overall handling of the vehicle, not something you want when you're heavily laden.  You see this a lot on Honda Pilots and Odysseys that are loaded up with families and towing a pop-up trailer.  It was one major reason I liked my Grand Caravan for that purpose - solid rear axle.  When you load up the axle, no camber is introduced to the system, so the tires and suspension perform as designed. 

Yes, you have the trade-off of more truck-like handling, but to somebody like me, I think that's acceptable.

The lack of AWD is a bigger disappointment to me.  Maybe they'll add it mid-cycle?

[ArticSteve]

Further on this topic of "rear lockers"; what is really valuable is just a good ole mechanical LSD.  Ford used to offer them as an option and then switched to rear lockers.  I believe GM is still offering them.  For practical purposes it's by far the best.

[warp]

Further on this topic of "rear lockers"; what is really valuable is just a good ole mechanical LSD.  Ford used to offer them as an option and then switched to rear lockers.  I believe GM is still offering them.  For practical purposes it's by far the best.

GM changed from the G80 locker in the last generation of SUVs to either a mechanical LSD or an electronic LSD depending on the trim level of the new large SUVs. I have seen numerous videos on how good the electronic LSDs are, and they are really good. Video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_YGXSFwQUg

I have not yet seen a good demo of the mechanical LSDs to see how effective they are.

[JohnnyMac]

I think we all can't get too worked up over all this rear locker LSD stuff.  This is a hybrid, so some of the tires are likely going to be powered by electric motors and the others by the engine, which will be unique to this class of vehicle.  So maybe it works out, or maybe it doesn't.  I think we have to reserve judgement until it's actually tested.

[ArticSteve]

I have not yet seen a good demo of the mechanical LSDs to see how effective they are.

They haven't changed any for decades.  It transforms any rwd vehicle. I've had about 7 vehicles with clutch based LSDiffs.  I have one in the Mustang.  It only takes a second or two to lock the diff.  Depends on how fast one is accelerating. 

[ArticSteve]

I think we all can't get too worked up over all this rear locker LSD stuff.  This is a hybrid, so some of the tires are likely going to be powered by electric motors and the others by the engine, which will be unique to this class of vehicle.  So maybe it works out, or maybe it doesn't.  I think we have to reserve judgement until it's actually tested.

Not in the new Tundra.  No relationship to the traditional Toyota hybrids.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I think we all can't get too worked up over all this rear locker LSD stuff.  This is a hybrid, so some of the tires are likely going to be powered by electric motors and the others by the engine, which will be unique to this class of vehicle.  So maybe it works out, or maybe it doesn't.  I think we have to reserve judgement until it's actually tested.

Not in the new Tundra.  No relationship to the traditional Toyota hybrids.

Yeah, I believe the hybrid electric motor is sandwiched between the engine and the transmission...?  Or maybe it's between the transmission and the transfer case.  Either way, it's in the driveline before power gets sent to the wheels, so no capability of electrically powering individual wheels or axles. 

[Fobroader]

I hope that this new generation has some sort of an LSD or locking differential, at least for the rear wheels. If I am not mistaken the last generation had an open differential and was pretty much useless if it got 2 diagonal wheels up in the air.

Even the TRD Pro didn't have LSD's?  I find that hard to believe but maybe so.

I think Toyota has something called auto LSD which they used in that generation of Tundras and Sequoias.

So the 2 videos directly below gives a demonstration of that auto LSD system on a Tundra. Not very impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcYLju1lQ5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_KyoSF9DYc

So they had one, it was just shitty.  I can believe that.

Toyota has good 4WD systems on the 4Runner, Tacoma and Land Cruiser, wonder why they don't fit those on the Tundra and Sequoia.

My dads 14 Sequoia has full time option as it has a center diff lock. Hes got 2wd, 4wd high, and 4wd low, but you can run the center diff unlocked in 4wd high.

[JohnnyMac]

I think we all can't get too worked up over all this rear locker LSD stuff.  This is a hybrid, so some of the tires are likely going to be powered by electric motors and the others by the engine, which will be unique to this class of vehicle.  So maybe it works out, or maybe it doesn't.  I think we have to reserve judgement until it's actually tested.

Not in the new Tundra.  No relationship to the traditional Toyota hybrids.

Yeah, I believe the hybrid electric motor is sandwiched between the engine and the transmission...?  Or maybe it's between the transmission and the transfer case.  Either way, it's in the driveline before power gets sent to the wheels, so no capability of electrically powering individual wheels or axles.

Regardless, I think we all need to calm our on bashing something no one has even driven or tested yet.  The reality is, if it's as good as the Expedition and the GM twins, it'll be fine.  No one is expecting it to be a Landcruiser or Land Rover type of offroader, nor does it have to be in order to be successful.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I think we all can't get too worked up over all this rear locker LSD stuff.  This is a hybrid, so some of the tires are likely going to be powered by electric motors and the others by the engine, which will be unique to this class of vehicle.  So maybe it works out, or maybe it doesn't.  I think we have to reserve judgement until it's actually tested.

Not in the new Tundra.  No relationship to the traditional Toyota hybrids.

Yeah, I believe the hybrid electric motor is sandwiched between the engine and the transmission...?  Or maybe it's between the transmission and the transfer case.  Either way, it's in the driveline before power gets sent to the wheels, so no capability of electrically powering individual wheels or axles.

Regardless, I think we all need to calm our on bashing something no one has even driven or tested yet.  The reality is, if it's as good as the Expedition and the GM twins, it'll be fine.  No one is expecting it to be a Landcruiser or Land Rover type of offroader, nor does it have to be in order to be successful.

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm getting at.  I'm not in the least worried about lack of an LSD or locker, and it likely wouldn't influence my decision to buy or not to buy.

Fulltime 4x4 would be a much bigger deal, as then one could just leave it in FT4x4 all winter, and not worry about whether the wife is driving it in 4HI on dry asphalt. 

[ArticSteve]

The body looks good, but in the end Toyota cheaped out.  The Sequoia is a 10% smaller Tundra Hybrid.  Everything the same.  They had the opportunity to install an all weather fully automatic drive train for the goof balls that can actually afford these things.  Now clued out owners will be barreling down dry US interstates at 80 to 90 mph in 4WD oblivious to the chaos underneath them.   

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The body looks good, but in the end Toyota cheaped out.  The Sequoia is a 10% smaller Tundra Hybrid.  Everything the same.  They had the opportunity to install an all weather fully automatic drive train for the goof balls that can actually afford these things.  Now clued out owners will be barreling down dry US interstates at 80 to 90 mph in 4WD oblivious to the chaos underneath them.   

You're one of those Goof Balls, Sir,  Mr 2021 Nissan Armada!!!! 

[dkaz]

The wording makes it seem like the hybrid powertrain will be the only one available for the Sequoia. Which makes a lot of sense.

[ktm525]

I think Toyota has something called auto LSD which they used in that generation of Tundras and Sequoias.

"Auto LSD" was always BS.  Essentially the ABS system was deployed. 

So one will now need to buy the off road package just to get a real locker which is rarely used but still essential for those odd occasions.  Would a $500 locking diff. option be that difficult for Toyota if ppl don't want the appearance or expense of an off road package. 

Toyota is still stingy with their resources.  Disappointing not to see an AWD version and what's with the solid rear axle?  Toyota cheapness.

However, Nissan is no better.  For NA  Nissan deleted the rear locker on the Armada.

With a 9000lb tow rating, I would want nothing but a solid axle.  On an IFS setup, when you load up that rear axle, you get a lot of negative camber.  This is bad for the tires, and affects overall handling of the vehicle, not something you want when you're heavily laden.  You see this a lot on Honda Pilots and Odysseys that are loaded up with families and towing a pop-up trailer.  It was one major reason I liked my Grand Caravan for that purpose - solid rear axle.  When you load up the axle, no camber is introduced to the system, so the tires and suspension perform as designed. 

Yes, you have the trade-off of more truck-like handling, but to somebody like me, I think that's acceptable.

The lack of AWD is a bigger disappointment to me.  Maybe they'll add it mid-cycle?

air suspension FTW. Nice and level regardless of the load.

Sequoia should get an  urban slip and grip awd system. No one will miss the capability of a true 2 speed lockable 4Wd system on these things. The Land Cruiser on the other hand...

[dkaz]

air suspension FTW. Nice and level regardless of the load.

Or a properly setup weight distribution hitch with sway control.

I'm weary of air suspension systems especially in the prairies.

[warp]

The body looks good, but in the end Toyota cheaped out.  The Sequoia is a 10% smaller Tundra Hybrid.  Everything the same.  They had the opportunity to install an all weather fully automatic drive train for the goof balls that can actually afford these things.  Now clued out owners will be barreling down dry US interstates at 80 to 90 mph in 4WD oblivious to the chaos underneath them.   

The quote below is from the official Toyota US press release:

Sequoia will be offered in 2WD or the available part-time 4WD system on SR5, Limited, Platinum and Capstone grades. TRD Pro will be offered only in 4WD. The part-time 4WD system relies on a transfer case, controlled via a lever on the center console, to select between 2WD, 4WD high or 4WD low.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/standing-tall-all-new-2023-sequoia-full-size-suv-is-ready-to-make-its-mark/

So no 4AUTO setting??? Yep, clueless drivers will set it on 4WD High on dry pavement and wreck the drivetrain. The average Toyota owner does not have the background of the average GM Suburban/Yukon/Escalade/Sierra/Silverado owner, the latter being used to a part time 4WD system.

[JohnnyMac]

Yeah from the Driving.ca article.  https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/first-look-2023-toyota-sequoia

"In Canada, the TRD package is the cheapest Sequoia available. But, even if its interior amenities aren’t as luxurious as its siblings, it comes with a shopping-cart-sized list of off-road goodies, including a selectable locking differential, Multi-Terrain Select that helps control wheel-spin for improved traction, Downhill Assist Control, and a Crawl Control that serves as a sort of off-road cruise control for low-speed trail navigation to minimize the herky-jerkiness of the throttle in 4WD Low. TRD-tuned Bilstein monotube shock absorbers and TRD-tuned springs are standard, and Toyota says the red front-axle driveshaft provides “added flair.” Yes, we have come to a point in the world of automotive fashion that the driveshaft is now styling differentiator. Oh, my."

So sounds like no AWD, just the old school 4WD.  While I agree that the part time AWD would be better for the usual drivers of these, but this 4WD with a locking diff, probably makes it more off road ready, even though I don't know if there is a limited slip diff.