Topic: 2023 Toyota Sequoia

[OliverD]

The body looks good, but in the end Toyota cheaped out.  The Sequoia is a 10% smaller Tundra Hybrid.  Everything the same.  They had the opportunity to install an all weather fully automatic drive train for the goof balls that can actually afford these things.  Now clued out owners will be barreling down dry US interstates at 80 to 90 mph in 4WD oblivious to the chaos underneath them.   

The quote below is from the official Toyota US press release:

Sequoia will be offered in 2WD or the available part-time 4WD system on SR5, Limited, Platinum and Capstone grades. TRD Pro will be offered only in 4WD. The part-time 4WD system relies on a transfer case, controlled via a lever on the center console, to select between 2WD, 4WD high or 4WD low.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/standing-tall-all-new-2023-sequoia-full-size-suv-is-ready-to-make-its-mark/

So no 4AUTO setting??? Yep, clueless drivers will set it on 4WD High on dry pavement and wreck the drivetrain. The average Toyota owner does not have the background of the average GM Suburban/Yukon/Escalade/Sierra/Silverado owner, the latter being used to a part time 4WD system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the centre diff isn't locked then it should be fine, no? It's not like an old-school style 4x4 system that doesn't have a centre diff and where the front and rear driveshafts spin at the same speed.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The body looks good, but in the end Toyota cheaped out.  The Sequoia is a 10% smaller Tundra Hybrid.  Everything the same.  They had the opportunity to install an all weather fully automatic drive train for the goof balls that can actually afford these things.  Now clued out owners will be barreling down dry US interstates at 80 to 90 mph in 4WD oblivious to the chaos underneath them.   

The quote below is from the official Toyota US press release:

Sequoia will be offered in 2WD or the available part-time 4WD system on SR5, Limited, Platinum and Capstone grades. TRD Pro will be offered only in 4WD. The part-time 4WD system relies on a transfer case, controlled via a lever on the center console, to select between 2WD, 4WD high or 4WD low.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/standing-tall-all-new-2023-sequoia-full-size-suv-is-ready-to-make-its-mark/

So no 4AUTO setting??? Yep, clueless drivers will set it on 4WD High on dry pavement and wreck the drivetrain. The average Toyota owner does not have the background of the average GM Suburban/Yukon/Escalade/Sierra/Silverado owner, the latter being used to a part time 4WD system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the centre diff isn't locked then it should be fine, no? It's not like an old-school style 4x4 system that doesn't have a centre diff and where the front and rear driveshafts spin at the same speed.

You're wrong.  It is EXACTLY like the old-school style 4x4 system that doesn't have a centre diff and where the front and rear driveshafts spin at the same speed.

This is what some of us are trying to say - we'd rather have the center diff AWD system at the expense of true off-roadability, for a vehicle like this.

Obviously Toyota didn't want to engineer two different 4x4 systems for the same vehicle.  So as AS said, they cheaped out and went with the one that will give them better off-road credentials.

In a perfect world, they would equip the more luxurious trims (limited, Capstone) with a fulltime AWD system, while the SR5 and TRD Pro would have been available with the part-time 4x4 system.

As a potential future buyer, I could see myself wanting a Limited trim, and would love for it to be equipped with a fulltime AWD system.  I wouldn't be buying this vehicle for off-roadability, but rather just for towing capacity, power, comfort, and winter capability. 

[ktm525]

Isn't that how the current 4Runner is?

AWD for the limited (with lockable transfer case if required and a more basic part time system for the other trims?

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Isn't that how the current 4Runner is?

AWD for the limited (with lockable transfer case if required and a more basic part time system for the other trims?

Yes, exactly. 

[ArticSteve]

So in summary  ,  once again Toyota stops short of the goal line.   OK, putting the AWD aside, they can't even muster an Auto setting for the 4WD.    Same with the Trundra.  That is a pretty big FAIL.

[OliverD]

Was saying to someone today that when it comes to Toyota's BOF products it seems that they sell them mostly on reputation and not on actually offering a competitive truck. And to be fair, it seems to work for them. At least for now.

[ktm525]

So in summary  ,  once again Toyota stops short of the goal line.   OK, putting the AWD aside, they can't even muster an Auto setting for the 4WD.    Same with the Trundra.  That is a pretty big FAIL.

I agree. They are ignoring their target market. My wife and daughter just spin the dial in the Land Rover to "snow mode" and drive off. They are not going beyond that and that is a full time AWD system.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Was saying to someone today that when it comes to Toyota's BOF products it seems that they sell them mostly on reputation and not on actually offering a competitive truck. And to be fair, it seems to work for them. At least for now.

I'd say yes, if you were still talking about the previous gen.  The newest gen of Tundra and Sequoia? I think less.  These were pretty much from the ground up redesigns, and I'm going to argue the Tundra is now as competitive as anything on offer from Ford, GM or Ram, excluding any of their super trucks. 

So the Sequioa is missing a fulltime AWD system - that definitely seems like an oversight, but I'm willing to bet that the new Sequoia compares favorably in almost every other category to GM's large SUV's - save the Escalade, but then that competes with the LX600.

[warp]

Toyota has a full time AWD system installed in the LX series e.g. according to Motor Trend's review of the 2023 LX 600:

The 2022 Lexus LX600 has a full-time four-wheel-drive system with low range. The Torsen center differential can lock to split the power 50-50 front and rear, but only the F Sport has a Torsen limited-slip rear diff.

If they had wanted to cut costs, given the fact that the LX600 is a premium Lexus product, they could have installed this system in the new Sequoia as a single speed unit, without the low range. Also I don't understand the need to confine the rear torsen LSD to the  LX 600 F Sport model only. Why not make the center lockable differential and the rear torsen LSD standard equipment on all trim levels in the Land Cruiser and the Sequoia. And have the 2 speed transfer case standard on the LX600 given it's more off-road oriented mission. Would have kept all potential customers happy.

[OliverD]

Was saying to someone today that when it comes to Toyota's BOF products it seems that they sell them mostly on reputation and not on actually offering a competitive truck. And to be fair, it seems to work for them. At least for now.

I'd say yes, if you were still talking about the previous gen.  The newest gen of Tundra and Sequoia? I think less.  These were pretty much from the ground up redesigns, and I'm going to argue the Tundra is now as competitive as anything on offer from Ford, GM or Ram, excluding any of their super trucks. 

So the Sequioa is missing a fulltime AWD system - that definitely seems like an oversight, but I'm willing to bet that the new Sequoia compares favorably in almost every other category to GM's large SUV's - save the Escalade, but then that competes with the LX600.

The Tundra is definitely the most competitive. As for the Sequoia, aside from the lack of full time AWD, it seems they really compromised access to and comfort of the third row compared to the competition. The battery pack sits below the third row of seats so they don't fold into the floor, unlike the competition. The second row doesn't slide at all and there's no pushbutton release for them to tumble forward. The shelf that they have back there is neat, but overall that interior setup seems quite compromised compared to the competition.

https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1134882_2023-toyota-sequoia-a-curious-case-of-3-row-seating?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[OliverD]

The body looks good, but in the end Toyota cheaped out.  The Sequoia is a 10% smaller Tundra Hybrid.  Everything the same.  They had the opportunity to install an all weather fully automatic drive train for the goof balls that can actually afford these things.  Now clued out owners will be barreling down dry US interstates at 80 to 90 mph in 4WD oblivious to the chaos underneath them.   

The quote below is from the official Toyota US press release:

Sequoia will be offered in 2WD or the available part-time 4WD system on SR5, Limited, Platinum and Capstone grades. TRD Pro will be offered only in 4WD. The part-time 4WD system relies on a transfer case, controlled via a lever on the center console, to select between 2WD, 4WD high or 4WD low.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/standing-tall-all-new-2023-sequoia-full-size-suv-is-ready-to-make-its-mark/

So no 4AUTO setting??? Yep, clueless drivers will set it on 4WD High on dry pavement and wreck the drivetrain. The average Toyota owner does not have the background of the average GM Suburban/Yukon/Escalade/Sierra/Silverado owner, the latter being used to a part time 4WD system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the centre diff isn't locked then it should be fine, no? It's not like an old-school style 4x4 system that doesn't have a centre diff and where the front and rear driveshafts spin at the same speed.

You're wrong.  It is EXACTLY like the old-school style 4x4 system that doesn't have a centre diff and where the front and rear driveshafts spin at the same speed.

This is what some of us are trying to say - we'd rather have the center diff AWD system at the expense of true off-roadability, for a vehicle like this.

Obviously Toyota didn't want to engineer two different 4x4 systems for the same vehicle.  So as AS said, they cheaped out and went with the one that will give them better off-road credentials.

In a perfect world, they would equip the more luxurious trims (limited, Capstone) with a fulltime AWD system, while the SR5 and TRD Pro would have been available with the part-time 4x4 system.

As a potential future buyer, I could see myself wanting a Limited trim, and would love for it to be equipped with a fulltime AWD system.  I wouldn't be buying this vehicle for off-roadability, but rather just for towing capacity, power, comfort, and winter capability.

Oh, for some reason I thought there was a centre diff. My bad.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Was saying to someone today that when it comes to Toyota's BOF products it seems that they sell them mostly on reputation and not on actually offering a competitive truck. And to be fair, it seems to work for them. At least for now.

I'd say yes, if you were still talking about the previous gen.  The newest gen of Tundra and Sequoia? I think less.  These were pretty much from the ground up redesigns, and I'm going to argue the Tundra is now as competitive as anything on offer from Ford, GM or Ram, excluding any of their super trucks. 

So the Sequioa is missing a fulltime AWD system - that definitely seems like an oversight, but I'm willing to bet that the new Sequoia compares favorably in almost every other category to GM's large SUV's - save the Escalade, but then that competes with the LX600.

The Tundra is definitely the most competitive. Aside from the lack of full time AWD, it seems they really compromised access to and comfort of the third row compared to the competition. The battery pack sits below the third row of seats so they don't fold into the floor, unlike the competition. The second row doesn't slide at all and there's no pushbutton release for them to tumble forward. The shelf that they have back there is neat, but overall that interior setup seems quite compromised compared to the competition.

https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1134882_2023-toyota-sequoia-a-curious-case-of-3-row-seating?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Hmmm, curious, and mildly disappointing about the 3rd row/2nd row seats.   I understand the 3rd row not tumbling into the floor is because the hybrid battery is underneath.  Same reason the new Tundra Hybrid doesn't have storage under the rear seats. 

I'm still in love with the Sequoia, though. 

[Ontariodriver]

So in summary  ,  once again Toyota stops short of the goal line.   OK, putting the AWD aside, they can't even muster an Auto setting for the 4WD.    Same with the Trundra.  That is a pretty big FAIL.

It hasn't hurt Tundra, even with it's big slow engine. Nor will affect anything, the type of people who buy Sequoias, cause they are not many of them.

[EV Dan]

The body looks good, but in the end Toyota cheaped out.  The Sequoia is a 10% smaller Tundra Hybrid.  Everything the same.  They had the opportunity to install an all weather fully automatic drive train for the goof balls that can actually afford these things.  Now clued out owners will be barreling down dry US interstates at 80 to 90 mph in 4WD oblivious to the chaos underneath them.   

The quote below is from the official Toyota US press release:

Sequoia will be offered in 2WD or the available part-time 4WD system on SR5, Limited, Platinum and Capstone grades. TRD Pro will be offered only in 4WD. The part-time 4WD system relies on a transfer case, controlled via a lever on the center console, to select between 2WD, 4WD high or 4WD low.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/standing-tall-all-new-2023-sequoia-full-size-suv-is-ready-to-make-its-mark/

So no 4AUTO setting??? Yep, clueless drivers will set it on 4WD High on dry pavement and wreck the drivetrain. The average Toyota owner does not have the background of the average GM Suburban/Yukon/Escalade/Sierra/Silverado owner, the latter being used to a part time 4WD system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the centre diff isn't locked then it should be fine, no? It's not like an old-school style 4x4 system that doesn't have a centre diff and where the front and rear driveshafts spin at the same speed.

You're wrong.  It is EXACTLY like the old-school style 4x4 system that doesn't have a centre diff and where the front and rear driveshafts spin at the same speed.

This is what some of us are trying to say - we'd rather have the center diff AWD system at the expense of true off-roadability, for a vehicle like this.

Obviously Toyota didn't want to engineer two different 4x4 systems for the same vehicle.  So as AS said, they cheaped out and went with the one that will give them better off-road credentials.

In a perfect world, they would equip the more luxurious trims (limited, Capstone) with a fulltime AWD system, while the SR5 and TRD Pro would have been available with the part-time 4x4 system.

As a potential future buyer, I could see myself wanting a Limited trim, and would love for it to be equipped with a fulltime AWD system.  I wouldn't be buying this vehicle for off-roadability, but rather just for towing capacity, power, comfort, and winter capability.

Oh, for some reason I thought there was a centre diff. My bad.

Yeah, it's a tried and true truck style 4WD with a solid rear axle. This video explains what it is and what it isn't:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50rG716FQ6E

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Have I mentioned how much I really like this?  It's on my short list as a replacement for the Tundra in a few years.  Likely higher up than the new Tundra. 

The lack of an AWD system doesn't bother me - it would be nice, but it's omission wouldn't deter me. 
Wish the rear window rolled down like the Tundra/4Runne. 

[KD]

Have I mentioned how much I really like this?  It's on my short list as a replacement for the Tundra in a couple of years.  Likely higher up than the new Tundra. 

The lack of an AWD system doesn't bother me - it would be nice, but it's omission wouldn't deter me. 
Wish the rear window rolled down like the Tundra/4Runne.

Yeah, I forgot about it lacking the power rear window. Bummer cuz that was a neat feature.  Lack of awd doesn't bother me either.   

[Seafoam]

^^ Apparently they didn't do this because of the curvature of the glass . The old model was more straight up and down.
The glass  does open though similar to the Toyota Matrix .

It is roughly the same size as the old model. They wanted to still make it garageable unlike some of the competition.

TFL truck explains why Toyota did what they did. Andre even interviews a Toyota exec in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG4U2HwS070

[Great_Big_Abyss]

^^ Apparently they didn't do this because of the curvature of the glass . The old model was more straight up and down.
The glass  does open though similar to the Toyota Matrix .

TFL truck explains why Toyota did what they did. Andre even interviews a Toyota exec in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG4U2HwS070

That makes total sense.

I don't think you'd want to do it on a wagon like this, anyway, as exhaust fumes would probably get pulled back into the vehicle cabin.  At least on a truck the tailpipe is a good 6' back from where the window rolls down.

[Seafoam]

 ^^ It's all in that video. It may be a bit long for some viewers .

583 pound feet of torque isn't bad either.

[ktm525]

row 2&3 don't fold flat into floor.  Toyota will argue that solid rear better for towing and off road. If Land Rover can figure out how to design an IFS rear with high tow limits 20 years ago I am sure Toyota could. This will also not be a rock crawler. The real reason? It's CHEAP.