Topic: Jason on the GTI

[Guest]

Post content deleted at request of original poster.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Oh, Yay, more Cammisa!

EDIT:  Oh, man, he's not a fan, eh? 

The curious thing about VW's Infotainment (or any infotainment, TBH), is that it's not something you'll be able to determine if you can live with while looking at it on a showroom floor, or even on a twenty minute test drive.  When you're looking at a new vehicle at a dealership and going out for a test drive, your senses are so overwhelmed by all the sensations of a vehicle that's different from the one that you drove to the dealership in, that you'll never notice the 'liveability' problems that Cammisa pointed out.  Even a Mk7 driver would be so overwhelmed by how different the Mk8 is in comparison, that their brain is in overdrive.  No, the little foibles that Cammisa pointed out won't start rearing their ugly head until the deal is done, and the car has been sitting in your driveway for a few days.  You'll NEVER notice that you can't change the HVAC settings until 15-20 seconds after you've started the car, until you've lived with it for a few days, and have gotten frustrated by the exact scenario he described.  Even if you encountered it on a test drive, your brain tends to gloss over it as a 'little, unimportant detail'. 

In fact, it's quite the opposite:  The capacitive buttons and screen-only controls look so clean, cutting edge, and advanced, that during your first look at the cabin (on the showroom floor, and on the test drive), your brain marvels at the 'clean, minimalist' design that it likely sets the car apart as being a lot more futuristic than the Honda Civic Hatch across the road with its old fashioned, physical volume knob and HVAC controls.  As a consumer, you're programmed to want the shiny, new, minimalist object (think generations of kids and adults being raised with each iPhone/Android being sleeker than the last). 

Eventually, reviewers (and consumers) will start catching on, and VW will get flack for their design decisions. 

I wonder if we can expect a Mk8.5 mid-cycle refresh where VW puts the volume knob, and physical HVAC controls back in?

[JohnnyMac]

Wow he really rips into VW about this infotainment system and budget cuts to the interior.  I have to say, it's completely justifiable.  I mean taking away all the buttons and replacing them with those haptic feedback ones is the worst idea ever.  Well glad I got to enjoy peak VW with my Mk7 Golf R and current GLI.  I wasn't planning on getting a MK8 anyway, so maybe by the time I swing back to the hot hatch market (likely 8 years from now) they'll have a Mk9 last of the ICE GTI's with real buttons and a infotainment that has reversed back to what the Mk7 was.

It is refreshing to see a negative review of the GTI.  I think VW had been hitting it out of the park for so long that they were bound to do something stupid (other than their CUVs, getting rid of their wagons, and regular Golfs).

[tortoise]

I really like the interior of the Mk7. Everything works as it should, it's nicely laid out, and feels reasonably upscale for the class.

The Mk8 felt like it was trying to be different just to be different.

[Davep]

Yup, Savagegeese called out VW over the new 8 controls, and now Cammisa. It's a shame because the entry level price point is excellent, but obviously with those controls, not for me.

[JohnnyMac]

Yup, Savagegeese called out VW over the new 8 controls, and now Cammisa. It's a shame because the entry level price point is excellent, but obviously with those controls, not for me.

Yeah but Savagegeese praised how it drove on the track, said how much better it was, where as Cammisa basically bashed the entirety of it. 

[dirtyjeffer]

my new Venza has all touch for the HVAC and Infotainment...not my first choice, but you do get used to it relatively quickly...if the designer asked me, i'd say leave those as physical controls, but it's not that bad...it's certainly not a dealbreaker to me...that said, the lag and odd way the VW system operated there would certainly be an issue...fortunately, my Venza system works quite well, it's just touch instead of buttons/dials.

[dougjp]

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[Great_Big_Abyss]

I think it's got to do with the 'clean' look that only a bunch of screens can present.  When you're sitting in a car on the dealership floor, that futuristic, modern, clean, uncluttered look will probably sell a lot of cars. 

There is no way anybody will realize what a PITA it will eventually be until they've lived with the car for a few days. 

And yes, the boot sequence of the Infotainment WILL be a pain.  Heck, in my Mazda, it takes a second or two for the reverse camera to turn on after I put the car into reverse.  I find that mildly irritating, and it's literally only a second or two delay. 

Imagine 14-15 seconds before you can do ANYTHING at all with any controls?  On a daily basis, it would be excruciating. 

[dirtyjeffer]

Imagine 14-15 seconds before you can do ANYTHING at all with any controls?  On a daily basis, it would be excruciating.

yea, that really makes no sense...my guess is, it needs a better processor or more RAM??...if that's the case, VW should have spent the extra $100 and make it run silky smooth.

[tortoise]

I wouldn't be surprised that it's also a cost cutting measure.

Surely just having everything be touch/screen based has to be cheaper than making switches at this point.

[dirtyjeffer]

I wouldn't be surprised that it's also a cost cutting measure.

Surely just having everything be touch/screen based has to be cheaper than making switches at this point.

i'm not sure...i would have thought touch buttons were more expensive than regular mechanical ones.

[quadzilla]

Here's just one situation of many that come to mind. Imagine hopping in the car to go to work, in the dark some freezing morning, after a previous warm sunny day. Cold air blowing at you that can't be stopped immediately. The idea of swearing at your car all the time doesn't appeal to me at all. I don't want to wake up that fast and in a foul mood. No sale.

But would that happen? Even my 13 year old GTI wouldn't do that. When I start the car the fan doesn't even come on for about 10 seconds. Then if the car is cold AND the outside temp is cold, the heater only blows with a low fan speed UNTIL there is some heat into the engine and then the car will increase the fan speed.

I would think this is pretty common programming today in most if not all cars?

[quadzilla]

Just watched the video. OMG, that Scirocco in the garage

Interesting take, would like to try one myself to see how I felt about it but being a button and knob lover, I'm already bias already.

I'd like to see track times (which is totally meaningless for real world driving of course) between the 7 an 8 BUT with the exact same tires on both.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Just watched the video. OMG, that Scirocco in the garage

Interesting take, would like to try one myself to see how I felt about it but being a button and knob lover, I'm already bias already.

I'd like to see track times (which is totally meaningless for real world driving of course) between the 7 an 8 BUT with the exact same tires on both.

I like that despite Cammisa's very obvious VW bias that he makes VERY clear at the beginning of the video, he still proceeds to rip the Mk8 to shreds. 

The man tells it as it is. 

Then again, maybe he's just looking to stir up controversy and get views.  I doubt it, though. 

[dirtyjeffer]

Just watched the video. OMG, that Scirocco in the garage

Interesting take, would like to try one myself to see how I felt about it but being a button and knob lover, I'm already bias already.

I'd like to see track times (which is totally meaningless for real world driving of course) between the 7 an 8 BUT with the exact same tires on both.

I like that despite Cammisa's very obvious VW bias that he makes VERY clear at the beginning of the video, he still proceeds to rip the Mk8 to shreds. 

The man tells it as it is. 

Then again, maybe he's just looking to stir up controversy and get views.  I doubt it, though.

seems pretty genuine to me...videos are very well done too (cinematically).

[Arthur Dent]

Does sounds awful compared to the old car but I'm not a gimmick person.

[quadzilla]

Just watched the video. OMG, that Scirocco in the garage

Interesting take, would like to try one myself to see how I felt about it but being a button and knob lover, I'm already bias already.

I'd like to see track times (which is totally meaningless for real world driving of course) between the 7 an 8 BUT with the exact same tires on both.

I like that despite Cammisa's very obvious VW bias that he makes VERY clear at the beginning of the video, he still proceeds to rip the Mk8 to shreds. 

The man tells it as it is. 

Then again, maybe he's just looking to stir up controversy and get views.  I doubt it, though.

seems pretty genuine to me...videos are very well done too (cinematically).

Considering how scripted these videos are, I'm sure he could have given it 100% praise and still sounded genuine. Acting is acting.

[dougjp]

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[Patrick_D1]

Tough one for me to watch. I'll say this up front: most of the feedback is fair and made in a constructive manner. I will highlight that in his GR86 vs. GTI review, Jason noted that the Mk8 car does handle better than the outgoing one - and he didn't even get to try it on evenly matched tires. The chassis really is incredible, the brakes are sharp, and the car is fast as hell for what it is. I have no doubt it would murder a Mk7 on a back road or around a circuit, even on the same rubber.

But as for the interior... well, let's just say there are many people internally who feel the same. However, I will say that while some elements very much fall into the category of "answers to questions no one asked," I'd also contend the situation is not as dire as it might seem from this (again, fair) video.

First, this is an EU-spec test car with early software. It's laggy, no question. The North American spec cars arriving this fall have much-improved S/W that make the system much snappier, with a much faster boot up. There was also some odd stuff - the cars I've tested definitely didn't bring up the HVAC screen when triggering the heated steering. Jason didn't mention it, but other reviewers have harped on the infotainment for things like "needing 7 commands to disable ESC." These clearly didn't realize there's an easy, customizable shortcut menu giving direct access to basically anything you want - including ESC defeat.

Next, having lived with the exact same capacitive touch steering wheel in the Arteon for 5 months now, I expected to hate it. Instead, I've grown to really like it. There are indents for the buttons and you do learn to operate every one of the many functions without looking. The haptic feedback is good. The volume and track sliders are really easy to use. I've yet to accidentally activated the heated steering wheel, but do acknowledge this may happen in an aggressive driving (back road, track) situation - not something I really do with my big boat.

Again - is it "better" than regular buttons? No way, and I'd trade given the choice. But nor do I think it will be a turn-off for owners after a little while behind the wheel.

Some things - the slider controls on the centre stack, and their salt-in-the-wound lack of illumination - are misses, full stop. The consolation here is that a) the volume control on the wheel works really well and b) automatic HVAC tends to be "set and forget."

As for the comments about interior quality, I'll have to politely agree to disagree. I don't find the interior to feel any less substantial from my old Mk7s, aside from the lack of physical buttons (which always had nice tactile feedback). The H&K stereo is better than the old Fender system, and I am a sucker for cool ambient lighting. As for the seats, I personally find them nicer - in both support/comfort and quality - than the outgoing ones. Being more of a luddite, I do miss the "classic" feel of the old Mk7 interior, but I still look forward to spending plenty of time in the Mk8.

As a final note, with respect to the styling, I'll simply say this is a car that you absolutely need to see in person. It looks low slung and aggressive in the sheetmetal in a way that the Mk7 never did, which I feel suits the GTI & Golf R well.

All of the above is my personal opinion, and I don't expect it to sway anyone else. Ultimately I still believe the new-generation car is so good to drive, well-contented, and well-priced, that it will succeed. It's certainly got a few elements that feel like a step back from the prior car... though on balance, as Jason himself said, it's still a GTI. One ideally shouldn't need to "spend time" with a GTI to appreciate it more - turn-key simplicity has always been a hallmark. But for those who do? There's a lot to like here.