Topic: 2022 F-150 Lightning

[EV-Light]

Is this dealer trying to get more money or is Ford Canada not honouring CDN preorders?

According to the two contracts Elrick showed CTV News Toronto, he signed an agreement to buy a 2022 model for $95,899.

Now, he is being told if he wants to buy the truck, he will have to sign a new contract for a 2023 model for $111,757, which is $15,858 more.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-man-who-pre-ordered-ford-electric-truck-shocked-he-has-to-pay-more-than-americans-1.6059188

Dude is paying $100k+ for his truck and complaining about the price?! He is lucky he is paying MSRP! LOL

He needs to put on his big boy pants and swallow the new price - come on!!! And he doesn’t even know - because he hasn’t complained about it - that he will also have to pay the new luxury tax…

So $111,757 + hst + luxury tax [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

I’d love to take a hard look at that agreement and the T&Cs he agreed to…!


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[rrocket]

Dude is paying $100k+ for his truck and complaining about the price?! He is lucky he is paying MSRP! LOL

He's complaining that Ford isn't honoring something previously agreed upon.

And rightfully so.

[EV-Light]

Dude is paying $100k+ for his truck and complaining about the price?! He is lucky he is paying MSRP! LOL

He's complaining that Ford isn't honoring something previously agreed upon.

And rightfully so.

Ford didn’t promise anything…nothing, nada…

The reservation T&C were clear on that.

So would be curious to see what are these documents he has - the only legal/valid document is the sales agreement between the dealer and future owner, if he has one then he has all the rights to complain…it is my understanding though that NO dealer will give anyone a signed sales agreement for a vehicle that is not in their lot, there are insurance and many other implications around it that could put the dealer in a very difficult situation & liable to deliver something that they don’t have.

So I think this dude had a reservation & a pre-order sheet from the website or dealer that are full of T&C stating that price and delivery are not guaranteed and can change at any time…


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[Layne]

Dude is paying $100k+ for his truck and complaining about the price?! He is lucky he is paying MSRP! LOL

He's complaining that Ford isn't honoring something previously agreed upon.

And rightfully so.

Ford didn’t promise anything…nothing, nada…

The reservation T&C were clear on that.

So would be curious to see what are these documents he has - the only legal/valid document is the sales agreement between the dealer and future owner, if he has one then he has all the rights to complain…it is my understanding though that NO dealer will give anyone a signed sales agreement for a vehicle that is not in their lot, there are insurance and many other implications around it that could put the dealer in a very difficult situation & liable to deliver something that they don’t have.

So I think this dude had a reservation & a pre-order sheet from the website or dealer that are full of T&C stating that price and delivery are not guaranteed and can change at any time…


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“ is my understanding though that NO dealer will give anyone a signed sales agreement for a vehicle that is not in their lot”

Apart from a factory order.

[EV-Light]

Dude is paying $100k+ for his truck and complaining about the price?! He is lucky he is paying MSRP! LOL

He's complaining that Ford isn't honoring something previously agreed upon.

And rightfully so.

Ford didn’t promise anything…nothing, nada…

The reservation T&C were clear on that.

So would be curious to see what are these documents he has - the only legal/valid document is the sales agreement between the dealer and future owner, if he has one then he has all the rights to complain…it is my understanding though that NO dealer will give anyone a signed sales agreement for a vehicle that is not in their lot, there are insurance and many other implications around it that could put the dealer in a very difficult situation & liable to deliver something that they don’t have.

So I think this dude had a reservation & a pre-order sheet from the website or dealer that are full of T&C stating that price and delivery are not guaranteed and can change at any time…


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“ is my understanding though that NO dealer will give anyone a signed sales agreement for a vehicle that is not in their lot”

Apart from a factory order.

Those also have their set of T&Cs


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[Hannibalsmith]

Dude is paying $100k+ for his truck and complaining about the price?! He is lucky he is paying MSRP! LOL

He's complaining that Ford isn't honoring something previously agreed upon.

And rightfully so.

Ford didn’t promise anything…nothing, nada…

The reservation T&C were clear on that.

So would be curious to see what are these documents he has - the only legal/valid document is the sales agreement between the dealer and future owner, if he has one then he has all the rights to complain…it is my understanding though that NO dealer will give anyone a signed sales agreement for a vehicle that is not in their lot, there are insurance and many other implications around it that could put the dealer in a very difficult situation & liable to deliver something that they don’t have.

So I think this dude had a reservation & a pre-order sheet from the website or dealer that are full of T&C stating that price and delivery are not guaranteed and can change at any time…


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“ is my understanding though that NO dealer will give anyone a signed sales agreement for a vehicle that is not in their lot”

Apart from a factory order.

Those also have their set of T&Cs


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Yes I think deep down, or not even that deep, he knows he has no legal ground to stand on and is simply trying the media angle hoping Ford will cave.

[rrocket]

So if it holds no weight whatsoever, doesn't guarantee a vehicle, price, etc...why even bother asking for a signature then? There's no point if none of this carries any weight.

Just give people a ticket like they give at the butcher then....

It's a principle thing for me. If someone tells me I'm going to get X (especially so if I put my signature down), I expect it to be honored.

But not everyone shares my honor our expectations of people doing the right thing.

[Ontariodriver]

Taking apart the E-F150

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ&ab_channel=HooviesGarage

Interesting, looks really difficult to fix in the future, should things go pear shape.

[Layne]

Taking apart the E-F150

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ&ab_channel=HooviesGarage

Interesting, looks really difficult to fix in the future, should things go pear shape.

Indeed.  An owner might get screwed on the up front cost and the future cost.

[EV-Light]

Taking apart the E-F150

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ&ab_channel=HooviesGarage

Interesting, looks really difficult to fix in the future, should things go pear shape.

Indeed.  An owner might get screwed on the up front cost and the future cost.

Sounds like a mechanic that needs a refresher…move on with the times, EVs are much simpler to maintain and repair


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[rrocket]

Taking apart the E-F150

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ&ab_channel=HooviesGarage

Interesting, looks really difficult to fix in the future, should things go pear shape.

Indeed.  An owner might get screwed on the up front cost and the future cost.

Sounds like a mechanic that needs a refresher…move on with the times, EVs are much simpler to maintain and repair


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Nonsense.

Many mechanics are saying OEM can make repairing EVs difficult.  Some states in the US have had to sue manufacturers for doing this.

And it's not the first time I've heard or read about it.  Most manufacturers have proprietary software and diagnostic systems for vehicles.  If access to these are not readily available, then you can't diagnose, test or repair many functions.  This is especially so the more complex and computerized vehicles become.

And a College mechanic instructor concurs...or does she need a refresher too?   

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/how-are-you-beating-the-high-cost-of-living-1.6492937/electric-vehicle-repairs-down-the-road-could-be-costly-and-difficult-to-find-says-mechanic-1.6494034

[EV-Light]

Taking apart the E-F150

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ&ab_channel=HooviesGarage

Interesting, looks really difficult to fix in the future, should things go pear shape.

Indeed.  An owner might get screwed on the up front cost and the future cost.

Sounds like a mechanic that needs a refresher…move on with the times, EVs are much simpler to maintain and repair


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Nonsense.

Many mechanics are saying OEM can make repairing EVs difficult.  Some states in the US have had to sue manufacturers for doing this.

And it's not the first time I've heard or read about it.  Most manufacturers have proprietary software and diagnostic systems for vehicles.  If access to these are not readily available, then you can't diagnose, test or repair many functions.  This is especially so the more complex and computerized vehicles become.

And a College mechanic instructor concurs...or does she need a refresher too?   

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/how-are-you-beating-the-high-cost-of-living-1.6492937/electric-vehicle-repairs-down-the-road-could-be-costly-and-difficult-to-find-says-mechanic-1.6494034

They are all in a state of panic…their profession is about to change substantially and many of them will have to either refresh or die…

We will also need a lot less mechanics in the future…

So yep, I’d be pushing back, writing fear articles and trying to hold on and resist change as much as possible…

There’s no way out :-)


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[rrocket]

^^That's definitely not it.

As usual, right over your head.

[revalations]

^^That's definitely not it.

As usual, right over your head.

Wonder if we’re going to need mechanics. These EV’s won’t go 20 + years like our ICE vehicles. They’ll be throwaways at the 12-15 year mark (if your lucky) just like our electric appliances. You just don’t even try to fix/upgrade. What a revolutionary change!!! What did we ever do before EV’s?


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[Guy]

I'd agree with Tauri here.

Forward thinking indie shops are starting to make good business repairing EV's at a fraction of the cost OEM's would be charging, just like ICE's.

They have to be better at computers vs turning tools but that's the way were're going. A good example here.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/13/tesla-battery-pack-replacement-repair/

Those guys below sell booster kits for Tesla's, just like performance chip for an ICE.

https://ingenext.ca/collections/boost-50

Same guys, repaired a 2013 who failed after a software update due to a faulty repair sensor. (Practice your french.. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15nFbVHKmkw

[OliverD]

^^That's definitely not it.

As usual, right over your head.

Wonder if we’re going to need mechanics. These EV’s won’t go 20 + years like our ICE vehicles. They’ll be throwaways at the 12-15 year mark (if your lucky) just like our electric appliances. You just don’t even try to fix/upgrade. What a revolutionary change!!! What did we ever do before EV’s?


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What makes you say that?

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Taking apart the E-F150

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ&ab_channel=HooviesGarage

Interesting, looks really difficult to fix in the future, should things go pear shape.

Indeed.  An owner might get screwed on the up front cost and the future cost.

Sounds like a mechanic that needs a refresher…move on with the times, EVs are much simpler to maintain and repair


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nonsense.

Many mechanics are saying OEM can make repairing EVs difficult.  Some states in the US have had to sue manufacturers for doing this.

And it's not the first time I've heard or read about it.  Most manufacturers have proprietary software and diagnostic systems for vehicles.  If access to these are not readily available, then you can't diagnose, test or repair many functions.  This is especially so the more complex and computerized vehicles become.

And a College mechanic instructor concurs...or does she need a refresher too?   

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/how-are-you-beating-the-high-cost-of-living-1.6492937/electric-vehicle-repairs-down-the-road-could-be-costly-and-difficult-to-find-says-mechanic-1.6494034

They are all in a state of panic…their profession is about to change substantially and many of them will have to either refresh or die…

We will also need a lot less mechanics in the future…

So yep, I’d be pushing back, writing fear articles and trying to hold on and resist change as much as possible…

There’s no way out :-)


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Oddly enough, the internal combustion engines and transmissions are not what keep mechanics busy - Sure, they won't be doing oil changes on EV's, but EV's have plenty of the same support systems that require maintenance that keep mechanics busy on IC cars - Suspension and steering components, cooling components (aren't a lot of EV's liquid cooled?), HVAC components, electronics (SO MANY ELECTRONICS), brakes, etc. 

ALSO, most EV's are so new, that they haven't reached the age or mileage yet where maintenance on those aforementioned items has really kicked in yet.  Just you wait, Tauri, that fancy Lightning of yours will suffer from all the same gremlins that affect every other F-150 - except cam phasers - Ford has finally eliminated their cam phaser problem. 

[Guy]

^^That's definitely not it.

As usual, right over your head.

Wonder if we’re going to need mechanics. These EV’s won’t go 20 + years like our ICE vehicles. They’ll be throwaways at the 12-15 year mark (if your lucky) just like our electric appliances. You just don’t even try to fix/upgrade. What a revolutionary change!!! What did we ever do before EV’s?


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What makes you say that?

He just made that up. 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

^^That's definitely not it.

As usual, right over your head.

Wonder if we’re going to need mechanics. These EV’s won’t go 20 + years like our ICE vehicles. They’ll be throwaways at the 12-15 year mark (if your lucky) just like our electric appliances. You just don’t even try to fix/upgrade. What a revolutionary change!!! What did we ever do before EV’s?


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What makes you say that?

He just made that up. 

I'm guessing the perception that battery packs won't last beyond that, and will so prohibitively expensive to replace, it will just make sense to replace the entire car.  He may, or may not, have a point.  I'd argue that it's mostly based on anecdotal accounts (like that GM dealer who was charging $30k for a replacement battery in a Volt), as EV's haven't really been around for long enough to determine the true cost of battery replacements. 

[EV-Light]

^^That's definitely not it.

As usual, right over your head.

Wonder if we’re going to need mechanics. These EV’s won’t go 20 + years like our ICE vehicles. They’ll be throwaways at the 12-15 year mark (if your lucky) just like our electric appliances. You just don’t even try to fix/upgrade. What a revolutionary change!!! What did we ever do before EV’s?


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What makes you say that?

He just made that up. 

I'm guessing the perception that battery packs won't last beyond that, and will so prohibitively expensive to replace, it will just make sense to replace the entire car.  He may, or may not, have a point.  I'd argue that it's mostly based on anecdotal accounts (like that GM dealer who was charging $30k for a replacement battery in a Volt), as EV's haven't really been around for long enough to determine the true cost of battery replacements.

This! It’s possible he is right, but 12y doesn’t seem long enough - there are Teslas that old still around running without issues.

Regardless…if prices don eventually come down, it sure could force a chunk of the population into mass transportation


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