Topic: 2022 Honda Civic

[tortoise]

I too am coming around on the Si. It's about 300 lbs lighter than the GLI, so the power deficit will be less than the numbers suggest. 

It seems all of the suspension upgrades to a long way to making the car more fun to drive.  If it was a hatch I'd say it' the closest thing to the old Protege5.   

In this category it would be between the GLI and the Si.   

[warp]

Gotta admit - I'm warming to the Si.  The fog lights and rear spoiler just lift it ever so slighty in the aesthetics department.  Shifter is a dream, and with the LSD, it doesn't suffer from the massive front wheel hop that plagues the GTI.  Or the grope-and-hope haptic controls. More than enough usable power for the street, and more than enough people and cargo space for my needs.

Straight Pipes liked it a bunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO1D11U-YyA

Surprised about the wheel hop on the GTI because it has a standard LSD. Redline reviews also experienced it in their 6 speed manual test. Having said that 0-60 is significantly better in the GTI. Here is Motor Trend on it's Si test:

Despite improvements to the power band and how the engine feels, the empirical result is disappointing. Feathering the clutch from 3,700 rpm and short-shifting just a bit netted the best acceleration. Thing is, a 7.1-second zero-to-60 mph run is disappointingly slow for a car of this type, and 0.3-second slower than the 2020 Si. Same for the 15.3-second quarter-mile at 92.8 mph, which is 0.2-second behind and 1.1 mph slower.

And here is Motor Trend on the GTI:

We managed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in the stick-shift GTI in 6.1 seconds; the dual-clutch model does the deed in 5.4 seconds. The gearing is long—we managed 90 mph in third. In our testing, the car covered the quarter mile in 14.6 seconds at 99.8 mph.

It looks like the GTI, R and GLI are now optimized for the DSG.

[tortoise]

I really don't like the looks of the new Elantra.

[Jaeger]

Gotta admit - I'm warming to the Si.  The fog lights and rear spoiler just lift it ever so slighty in the aesthetics department.  Shifter is a dream, and with the LSD, it doesn't suffer from the massive front wheel hop that plagues the GTI.  Or the grope-and-hope haptic controls. More than enough usable power for the street, and more than enough people and cargo space for my needs.

Straight Pipes liked it a bunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO1D11U-YyA

Surprised about the wheel hop on the GTI because it has a standard LSD. Redline reviews also experienced it in their 6 speed manual test. Having said that 0-60 is significantly better in the GTI. Here is Motor Trend on it's Si test:

Despite improvements to the power band and how the engine feels, the empirical result is disappointing. Feathering the clutch from 3,700 rpm and short-shifting just a bit netted the best acceleration. Thing is, a 7.1-second zero-to-60 mph run is disappointingly slow for a car of this type, and 0.3-second slower than the 2020 Si. Same for the 15.3-second quarter-mile at 92.8 mph, which is 0.2-second behind and 1.1 mph slower.

And here is Motor Trend on the GTI:

We managed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in the stick-shift GTI in 6.1 seconds; the dual-clutch model does the deed in 5.4 seconds. The gearing is long—we managed 90 mph in third. In our testing, the car covered the quarter mile in 14.6 seconds at 99.8 mph.

It looks like the GTI, R and GLI are now optimized for the DSG.

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO.  It was also a problem on the manual Accord 2.0T - so Honda can be afflicted, too.  Of course, getting the Golf R solves the wheel hop problem.  Can't what to see what the new non-Autobot-sex-toy Civic Type R looks like. 

[Hannibalsmith]

Gotta admit - I'm warming to the Si.  The fog lights and rear spoiler just lift it ever so slighty in the aesthetics department.  Shifter is a dream, and with the LSD, it doesn't suffer from the massive front wheel hop that plagues the GTI.  Or the grope-and-hope haptic controls. More than enough usable power for the street, and more than enough people and cargo space for my needs.

Straight Pipes liked it a bunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO1D11U-YyA

Surprised about the wheel hop on the GTI because it has a standard LSD. Redline reviews also experienced it in their 6 speed manual test. Having said that 0-60 is significantly better in the GTI. Here is Motor Trend on it's Si test:

Despite improvements to the power band and how the engine feels, the empirical result is disappointing. Feathering the clutch from 3,700 rpm and short-shifting just a bit netted the best acceleration. Thing is, a 7.1-second zero-to-60 mph run is disappointingly slow for a car of this type, and 0.3-second slower than the 2020 Si. Same for the 15.3-second quarter-mile at 92.8 mph, which is 0.2-second behind and 1.1 mph slower.

And here is Motor Trend on the GTI:

We managed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in the stick-shift GTI in 6.1 seconds; the dual-clutch model does the deed in 5.4 seconds. The gearing is long—we managed 90 mph in third. In our testing, the car covered the quarter mile in 14.6 seconds at 99.8 mph.

It looks like the GTI, R and GLI are now optimized for the DSG.

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO.  It was also a problem on the manual Accord 2.0T - so Honda can be afflicted, too.  Of course, getting the Golf R solves the wheel hop problem.  Can't what to see what the new non-Autobot-sex-toy Civic Type R looks like. 

The Integra, as you mentioned previously, will be interesting to see.

[rrocket]

Gotta admit - I'm warming to the Si.  The fog lights and rear spoiler just lift it ever so slighty in the aesthetics department.  Shifter is a dream, and with the LSD, it doesn't suffer from the massive front wheel hop that plagues the GTI.  Or the grope-and-hope haptic controls. More than enough usable power for the street, and more than enough people and cargo space for my needs.

Straight Pipes liked it a bunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO1D11U-YyA

Surprised about the wheel hop on the GTI because it has a standard LSD. Redline reviews also experienced it in their 6 speed manual test. Having said that 0-60 is significantly better in the GTI. Here is Motor Trend on it's Si test:

Despite improvements to the power band and how the engine feels, the empirical result is disappointing. Feathering the clutch from 3,700 rpm and short-shifting just a bit netted the best acceleration. Thing is, a 7.1-second zero-to-60 mph run is disappointingly slow for a car of this type, and 0.3-second slower than the 2020 Si. Same for the 15.3-second quarter-mile at 92.8 mph, which is 0.2-second behind and 1.1 mph slower.

And here is Motor Trend on the GTI:

We managed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in the stick-shift GTI in 6.1 seconds; the dual-clutch model does the deed in 5.4 seconds. The gearing is long—we managed 90 mph in third. In our testing, the car covered the quarter mile in 14.6 seconds at 99.8 mph.

It looks like the GTI, R and GLI are now optimized for the DSG.

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO.  It was also a problem on the manual Accord 2.0T - so Honda can be afflicted, too.  Of course, getting the Golf R solves the wheel hop problem.  Can't what to see what the new non-Autobot-sex-toy Civic Type R looks like. 

The Integra, as you mentioned previously, will be interesting to see.

https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts/honda-close-launch-redesigned-civic-type-r

[quadzilla]

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO. 

Having had a GTI that suffered from wheel hop I feel this is totally blown out of proportion. This is only going to happen at full throttle on poor surfaces when launching. I could spin my tires through the first 3 gears and not get wheel hop. Yet go full on crazy from a launch on wet/damp surfaces, and there it is.

The solution, drive with common sense. Besides, who is doing full on launches while doing everyday driving. 

Also, wondering why this is only coming up now when it has been happening for over 15 years, maybe even longer.

[dkaz]

My Mazda 5 can have bad wheel hop if I try to accelerate way too fast on wet surfaces. Annoying but not the end of the world.

[quadzilla]

I'm sure lots of cars suffer from wheel hop if you try hard enough. Even my parents Civic with less than 100 hp had wheel hop.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO. 

Having had a GTI that suffered from wheel hop I feel this is totally blown out of proportion. This is only going to happen at full throttle on poor surfaces when launching. I could spin my tires through the first 3 gears and not get wheel hop. Yet go full on crazy from a launch on wet/damp surfaces, and there it is.

The solution, drive with common sense. Besides, who is doing full on launches while doing everyday driving. 

Also, wondering why this is only coming up now when it has been happening for over 15 years, maybe even longer.

I can attest that my 2008 Civic Si (with Torsen LSD) also suffered from wheelhop under the right conditions.

What I mean by this is I don't think an LSD is a cure for wheelhop...

[Jaeger]

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO. 

Having had a GTI that suffered from wheel hop I feel this is totally blown out of proportion. This is only going to happen at full throttle on poor surfaces when launching. I could spin my tires through the first 3 gears and not get wheel hop. Yet go full on crazy from a launch on wet/damp surfaces, and there it is.

The solution, drive with common sense. Besides, who is doing full on launches while doing everyday driving. 

Also, wondering why this is only coming up now when it has been happening for over 15 years, maybe even longer.

Blown out of proportion?  I suppose it couldn't possibly just be that I have different preferences and priorities than you do, could it?    I said it was a deal breaker for me.  I didn't say it had to be a deal breaker for anybody else.

[Jaeger]

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO. 

Having had a GTI that suffered from wheel hop I feel this is totally blown out of proportion. This is only going to happen at full throttle on poor surfaces when launching. I could spin my tires through the first 3 gears and not get wheel hop. Yet go full on crazy from a launch on wet/damp surfaces, and there it is.

The solution, drive with common sense. Besides, who is doing full on launches while doing everyday driving. 

Also, wondering why this is only coming up now when it has been happening for over 15 years, maybe even longer.

I can attest that my 2008 Civic Si (with Torsen LSD) also suffered from wheelhop under the right conditions.

What I mean by this is I don't think an LSD is a cure for wheelhop...

Correct except that the Civic Si combines a version of the Type R reverse knuckle front suspension (or whatever you call it) which keeps the front planted.  Fairly planted.

Yep - bottom line is the Si doesn't suffer from wheel hop - as repeated hard launches in that video showed.  As to precisely how they accomplished it?  I don't claim to be an engineer.  But for me - wheel hop bad. YMMV. 

[Jaeger]

Gotta admit - I'm warming to the Si.  The fog lights and rear spoiler just lift it ever so slighty in the aesthetics department.  Shifter is a dream, and with the LSD, it doesn't suffer from the massive front wheel hop that plagues the GTI.  Or the grope-and-hope haptic controls. More than enough usable power for the street, and more than enough people and cargo space for my needs.

Straight Pipes liked it a bunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO1D11U-YyA

Surprised about the wheel hop on the GTI because it has a standard LSD. Redline reviews also experienced it in their 6 speed manual test. Having said that 0-60 is significantly better in the GTI. Here is Motor Trend on it's Si test:

Despite improvements to the power band and how the engine feels, the empirical result is disappointing. Feathering the clutch from 3,700 rpm and short-shifting just a bit netted the best acceleration. Thing is, a 7.1-second zero-to-60 mph run is disappointingly slow for a car of this type, and 0.3-second slower than the 2020 Si. Same for the 15.3-second quarter-mile at 92.8 mph, which is 0.2-second behind and 1.1 mph slower.

And here is Motor Trend on the GTI:

We managed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in the stick-shift GTI in 6.1 seconds; the dual-clutch model does the deed in 5.4 seconds. The gearing is long—we managed 90 mph in third. In our testing, the car covered the quarter mile in 14.6 seconds at 99.8 mph.

It looks like the GTI, R and GLI are now optimized for the DSG.

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO.  It was also a problem on the manual Accord 2.0T - so Honda can be afflicted, too.  Of course, getting the Golf R solves the wheel hop problem.  Can't what to see what the new non-Autobot-sex-toy Civic Type R looks like. 

The Integra, as you mentioned previously, will be interesting to see.

I showed my wife a youtube vid with that yellow pre-production Integra.  She was fairly smitten.  I would be so okay with replacing the Fit with one of those, much as I love the Fit.

[Hannibalsmith]

Gotta admit - I'm warming to the Si.  The fog lights and rear spoiler just lift it ever so slighty in the aesthetics department.  Shifter is a dream, and with the LSD, it doesn't suffer from the massive front wheel hop that plagues the GTI.  Or the grope-and-hope haptic controls. More than enough usable power for the street, and more than enough people and cargo space for my needs.

Straight Pipes liked it a bunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO1D11U-YyA

Surprised about the wheel hop on the GTI because it has a standard LSD. Redline reviews also experienced it in their 6 speed manual test. Having said that 0-60 is significantly better in the GTI. Here is Motor Trend on it's Si test:

Despite improvements to the power band and how the engine feels, the empirical result is disappointing. Feathering the clutch from 3,700 rpm and short-shifting just a bit netted the best acceleration. Thing is, a 7.1-second zero-to-60 mph run is disappointingly slow for a car of this type, and 0.3-second slower than the 2020 Si. Same for the 15.3-second quarter-mile at 92.8 mph, which is 0.2-second behind and 1.1 mph slower.

And here is Motor Trend on the GTI:

We managed to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in the stick-shift GTI in 6.1 seconds; the dual-clutch model does the deed in 5.4 seconds. The gearing is long—we managed 90 mph in third. In our testing, the car covered the quarter mile in 14.6 seconds at 99.8 mph.

It looks like the GTI, R and GLI are now optimized for the DSG.

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO.  It was also a problem on the manual Accord 2.0T - so Honda can be afflicted, too.  Of course, getting the Golf R solves the wheel hop problem.  Can't what to see what the new non-Autobot-sex-toy Civic Type R looks like. 

The Integra, as you mentioned previously, will be interesting to see.

I showed my wife a youtube vid with that yellow pre-production Integra.  She was fairly smitten.  I would be so okay with replacing the Fit with one of those, much as I love the Fit.

Listen to your wife…and sell me the Fit

[quadzilla]

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO. 

Having had a GTI that suffered from wheel hop I feel this is totally blown out of proportion. This is only going to happen at full throttle on poor surfaces when launching. I could spin my tires through the first 3 gears and not get wheel hop. Yet go full on crazy from a launch on wet/damp surfaces, and there it is.

The solution, drive with common sense. Besides, who is doing full on launches while doing everyday driving. 

Also, wondering why this is only coming up now when it has been happening for over 15 years, maybe even longer.

Blown out of proportion?  I suppose it couldn't possibly just be that I have different preferences and priorities than you do, could it?    I said it was a deal breaker for me.  I didn't say it had to be a deal breaker for anybody else.

I don't see anywhere in my post telling you what to think or do. I didn't even say anything about you. Just stating my opinion FFS.

[dougjp]

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO. 

Having had a GTI that suffered from wheel hop I feel this is totally blown out of proportion. This is only going to happen at full throttle on poor surfaces when launching. I could spin my tires through the first 3 gears and not get wheel hop. Yet go full on crazy from a launch on wet/damp surfaces, and there it is.

The solution, drive with common sense. Besides, who is doing full on launches while doing everyday driving. 

Also, wondering why this is only coming up now when it has been happening for over 15 years, maybe even longer.

I can attest that my 2008 Civic Si (with Torsen LSD) also suffered from wheelhop under the right conditions.

What I mean by this is I don't think an LSD is a cure for wheelhop...

Correct except that the Civic Si combines a version of the Type R reverse knuckle front suspension (or whatever you call it) which keeps the front planted.  Fairly planted.

Yep - bottom line is the Si doesn't suffer from wheel hop - as repeated hard launches in that video showed.  As to precisely how they accomplished it?  I don't claim to be an engineer.  But for me - wheel hop bad. YMMV. 

Performance/torque/cubic inches are too anemic. No worries, buy and toddle around sedately. 

[Jaeger]

I might get around to accepting the haptic from VW, but wheel hop is a deal-breaker for me.  Worse than torque steer IMO. 

Having had a GTI that suffered from wheel hop I feel this is totally blown out of proportion. This is only going to happen at full throttle on poor surfaces when launching. I could spin my tires through the first 3 gears and not get wheel hop. Yet go full on crazy from a launch on wet/damp surfaces, and there it is.

The solution, drive with common sense. Besides, who is doing full on launches while doing everyday driving. 

Also, wondering why this is only coming up now when it has been happening for over 15 years, maybe even longer.

Blown out of proportion?  I suppose it couldn't possibly just be that I have different preferences and priorities than you do, could it?    I said it was a deal breaker for me.  I didn't say it had to be a deal breaker for anybody else.

I don't see anywhere in my post telling you what to think or do. I didn't even say anything about you. Just stating my opinion FFS.

I guess you didn't see the part where you quoted my post, edited the specific point you were addressing,  told me I was blowing it all out of proportion, and  added a sarcastic eye roll for good measure.  There's no shame in needing glasses, Derek. 

[warp]

The king of wheel hop AND torque steer was my 2002 Nissan Altima with the 3.5 liter VQ engine, which had 240 hp then, and a 5 speed manual. Even for moderate launches one had to hold the steering wheel with a muscular grip

The GTI and GLI are optimized for the DSG transmission with launch control which puts the power down with no drama, no wheel hop.

I have not been looking for the new Civic at all but the other day while driving I saw a vehicle from the rear and I thought it looked nice. Pulling up to it I realized that it was the new Civic, Touring trim. Pictures do not do justice to the proportions. Nice looking car, much better than the boy racer older model.

[Jaeger]

The king of wheel hop AND torque steer was my 2002 Nissan Altima with the 3.5 liter VQ engine, which had 240 hp then, and a 5 speed manual. Even for moderate launches one had to hold the steering wheel with a muscular grip

The GTI and GLI are optimized for the DSG transmission with launch control which puts the power down with no drama, no wheel hop.

I have not been looking for the new Civic at all but the other day while driving I saw a vehicle from the rear and I thought it looked nice. Pulling up to it I realized that it was the new Civic, Touring trim. Pictures do not do justice to the proportions. Nice looking car, much better than the boy racer older model.

The old Civic hatch was a wretched assault on the eyes but I thought the sedan looked fine.  I may have seen a new Civic on the road and simply mistaken it for an Accord.  They are so close in style and size now, it's hard to tell while rolling.

[OliverD]

The king of wheel hop AND torque steer was my 2002 Nissan Altima with the 3.5 liter VQ engine, which had 240 hp then, and a 5 speed manual. Even for moderate launches one had to hold the steering wheel with a muscular grip

The GTI and GLI are optimized for the DSG transmission with launch control which puts the power down with no drama, no wheel hop.

I have not been looking for the new Civic at all but the other day while driving I saw a vehicle from the rear and I thought it looked nice. Pulling up to it I realized that it was the new Civic, Touring trim. Pictures do not do justice to the proportions. Nice looking car, much better than the boy racer older model.

The old Civic hatch was a wretched assault on the eyes but I thought the sedan looked fine.  I may have seen a new Civic on the road and simply mistaken it for an Accord.  They are so close in style and size now, it's hard to tell while rolling.

Yeah, I'm surprised that the Accord is only 8" longer than the Civic.