Topic: 2022 Honda Civic

[OliverD]

Agreed on the new interior with haptic everything.   It seems like they wanted something different for the sake of being different.

Let's be real, it's about saving money.

[JohnnyMac]

Agreed on the new interior with haptic everything.   It seems like they wanted something different for the sake of being different.

Let's be real, it's about saving money.

So the haptic everything you think is cheaper than physical buttons?

[dirtyjeffer]

Agreed on the new interior with haptic everything.   It seems like they wanted something different for the sake of being different.

Let's be real, it's about saving money.

So the haptic everything you think is cheaper than physical buttons?

i would think mechanical buttons/switches are cheaper...i think it's more of a design decision (looks high tech and fancy).

[dkaz]

They pretty much moved the physical buttons to the steering wheel.

[JohnnyMac]

They pretty much moved the physical buttons to the steering wheel.

The icons you see on the steering wheel are not buttons, they are haptic, they do not press down like a button.

[tortoise]

I think in this era, it's way easier to build and program one piece with haptic buttons than it is to source, wire and install a bunch of physical buttons.

[JohnnyMac]

I think in this era, it's way easier to build and program one piece with haptic buttons than it is to source, wire and install a bunch of physical buttons.

Maybe, I have absolutely no idea which is cheaper.  But VW has definitely gotten cheaper on other places in the interior of the vehicle.  Touch points that used to be soft are now hard plastic.

[warp]

Honda is trying a bold pricing strategy in my opinion. Base Civic is $$ too.

Honda is trying to follow Toyota and go for premium pricing.

How are the Toyota Corolla premium priced?

The Toyota philosophy as far as I can see is to offer reliable products which are a step behind in terms of power (Corolla 1.8 liter engine power vs Kia Forte or VW Jetta or Honda Civic or even the Nissan Sentra), or a step behind in terms of technology (Lexus vs Mercedes Benz, BMW or Audi) at a similar cash price but then use the Toyota credit rating to arbitrage on low Toyota borrowing costs vs lease/finance costs they charge their customers. Kia, VW, Mercedes Benz corporate bond yields are all higher than Toyota and yet they offer lease/finance terms of 0.99% or even 0% e.g. the current Lexus ES lease is at 5% + for 40 months, the Mercedes Benz C Class is at 0.99%.

How many Toyota/Lexus vehicles are sold for cash vs financed/leased. If you check out lease/finance rates for Toyota/Lexus vs Kia, VW or even Mercedes Benz, over the lifetime of the lease or finance term Toyota will rake in an extra ~$1000-$2000 vs others at the Corolla end of the market and more at the Lexus end of the market.

The premium that Toyota charges is therefore the sum total of cash receipts to Toyota over the lifetime of the lease or finance term, not just the sticker price.

Now the average buyer will also factor in the lower operating costs of the Toyota/Lexus as also the likely higher residual value to ultimately net a lower total cost of ownership. But that is another story.

[UnknownJinX]

I would wonder if GTI/GLI's reliability concerns have anything to do with the fact that most of them are tuned and driven aggressively. Then again, I suppose this could apply to the Si crowd as well.

But a dilemma indeed. In the GTI, you have to contend with haptic controls and possibly less reliability, but Si's power is definitely falling behind at this point.

[JohnnyMac]

I would wonder if GTI/GLI's reliability concerns have anything to do with the fact that most of them are tuned and driven aggressively. Then again, I suppose this could apply to the Si crowd as well.

But a dilemma indeed. In the GTI, you have to contend with haptic controls and possibly less reliability, but Si's power is definitely falling behind at this point.

The VW 2L turbo engine is very reliable, more so than the 1.5T in the Honda.  It's the electronics and sunroof that has been the issue with VW over the past 6 years.  But the Honda has oil dilution issues in the engine and owners are complaining the engine doesn't provide enough heat in the winter to keep the Windows clear.  To me those are bigger issues than the VW, but neither are perfect.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Honda has had issues with electronics lately, as well.

[UnknownJinX]

I would wonder if GTI/GLI's reliability concerns have anything to do with the fact that most of them are tuned and driven aggressively. Then again, I suppose this could apply to the Si crowd as well.

But a dilemma indeed. In the GTI, you have to contend with haptic controls and possibly less reliability, but Si's power is definitely falling behind at this point.

The VW 2L turbo engine is very reliable, more so than the 1.5T in the Honda.  It's the electronics and sunroof that has been the issue with VW over the past 6 years.  But the Honda has oil dilution issues in the engine and owners are complaining the engine doesn't provide enough heat in the winter to keep the Windows clear.  To me those are bigger issues than the VW, but neither are perfect.

VW definitely has been in the turbo playground for longer than Honda so I wouldn't be surprised here. Just gotta walnut blast the intake valves once in a while, though that's considered a regular maintenance for VW now.

Not sure if the 1.5T still has oil dilution issues nowadays, but I did make the point to tell my friend to pick a used K20 Civic if they are looking for the best reliability. The heat problem is definitely an issue in colder climates.

[Jaeger]

I will say that the heater in the Fit is only JUST adequate - and in SW Ontario, that's not saying much. The heated seats definitely help. But everything works. Every time.

[DriverJeff]

Honda has had issues with electronics lately, as well.

Agreed... and even in the new Civic, the infotainment system isn't perfect.

[JG20]

https://youtu.be/DkW0Fr5KGf0

SG review of the Si is pretty positive. Wonder if they'll find similar positives with the new WRX (modest increase in peak HP but supposed to have much more under the curve).

[Blueprint]

Debate in the C/D comments on all the extras Canadians get on the new Si vs the US-spec model. 'Muricans don't get heated seats, heated wheel and lots of other stuff. I should tell them their lighter cars are faster 

[JohnnyMac]

Debate in the C/D comments on all the extras Canadians get on the new Si vs the US-spec model. 'Muricans don't get heated seats, heated wheel and lots of other stuff. I should tell them their lighter cars are faster 

Has the price come out yet for Canada?

[Jaeger]

Debate in the C/D comments on all the extras Canadians get on the new Si vs the US-spec model. 'Muricans don't get heated seats, heated wheel and lots of other stuff. I should tell them their lighter cars are faster 

No heated seats on a car at this price point up here would be crazy. My Fit from 6 years ago has heated seats.

[dougjp]

Debate in the C/D comments on all the extras Canadians get on the new Si vs the US-spec model. 'Muricans don't get heated seats, heated wheel and lots of other stuff. I should tell them their lighter cars are faster 

That would work, but you could also tell them how much we pay for Freight vs. them.... and from Alliston, Ontario.  (forget which version(s) will still be made there).

[OliverD]

Debate in the C/D comments on all the extras Canadians get on the new Si vs the US-spec model. 'Muricans don't get heated seats, heated wheel and lots of other stuff. I should tell them their lighter cars are faster 

That would work, but you could also tell them how much we pay for Freight vs. them.... and from Alliston, Ontario.  (forget which version(s) will still be made there).

Who cares, it's probably still cheaper here after the exchange rate.