Topic: TH: 718 Cayman GT4 vs Boxster Spyder

[Triple Bob]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

Whenever this argument is posed, I get a mental block and all I can think of is "kit car".

I know, you always troll that. It's part of the reason I like to take breaks from this forum.

[rrocket]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

Whenever this argument is posed, I get a mental block and all I can think of is "kit car".

I know, you always troll that. It's part of the reason I like to take breaks from this forum.

I'm not trolling. It's what I believe.

You don't think a car as lovely as the Lotus deserves just as special, bespoke, engine? I do. And I say the same thing about the new Supra. To me, the soul of a sports car is the powertrain.

But because you disagree with me I'm trolling.

Gotcha

[Triple Bob]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

Whenever this argument is posed, I get a mental block and all I can think of is "kit car".

I know, you always troll that. It's part of the reason I like to take breaks from this forum.

I'm not trolling. It's what I believe.

You don't think a car as lovely as the Lotus deserves just as special, bespoke, engine? I do. And I say the same thing about the new Supra. To me, the soul of a sports car is the powertrain.

But because you disagree with me I'm trolling.

Gotcha

You have formed your opinion, that's fine. I'm just agreeing with Harry's video from the other thread, someone who has owned many Porsches, Ferraris, Maeratis, Zondas etc etc.  This is what he says about the engine:

https://youtu.be/CaYGanifXsk?t=940

I think they do great with the engine they have, no need for bespoke.

I disagree with you because I think your opinion is based on outdated information, that just isn't true. So you just keep spreading the same misinformation.

I've driven Lotuses, and a few Ferraris and Porsches. The Ferraris and Porsche are fast, loud, and handle great. But the lack of weight of a Lotus will always make it handle better IMHO. And for a Sunday fun car, I want it to be extra special.

[rrocket]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

Whenever this argument is posed, I get a mental block and all I can think of is "kit car".

I know, you always troll that. It's part of the reason I like to take breaks from this forum.

I'm not trolling. It's what I believe.

You don't think a car as lovely as the Lotus deserves just as special, bespoke, engine? I do. And I say the same thing about the new Supra. To me, the soul of a sports car is the powertrain.

But because you disagree with me I'm trolling.

Gotcha

You have formed your opinion, that's fine. I'm just agreeing with Harry's video from the other thread, someone who has owned many Porsches, Ferraris, Maeratis, Zondas etc etc.  This is what he says about the engine:

https://youtu.be/CaYGanifXsk?t=940

I think they do great with the engine they have, no need for bespoke.

I disagree with you because I think your opinion is based on outdated information, that just isn't true. So you just keep spreading the same misinformation.

I've driven Lotuses, and a few Ferraris and Porsches. The Ferraris and Porsche are fast, loud, and handle great. But the lack of weight of a Lotus will always make it handle better IMHO. And for a Sunday fun car, I want it to be extra special.

Well yes, I never said the engine isn't very good for what it is.  I've owned one (sans blower), so I'm aware....it was a VERY good engine in the IS350 and it's only better with a blower (duh)    .  And yes, they've improved the tranny so it now has excellent feel and precision (which the first few versions definitely lacked).

But that's where the "extra special" comes in FOR ME.  I don't think it is with this combo. And I think that's where a more unique, bespoke engine fits into the equation.  For me.

And it's much like the new Supra in this regard.  Certainly nothing wrong with the BMW-sourced engine.  Excellent power, strong motorsport background, great sound, etc.

But the car itself would have been far, far more special with a Toyota I-6. IMO of course.

I mean....I don't think either of us is wrong, man.  We like what we like.  And I'm OK with that. 

But just because our opinions differ on the matter, it doesn't mean I'm trolling you....

[Triple Bob]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

Whenever this argument is posed, I get a mental block and all I can think of is "kit car".

I know, you always troll that. It's part of the reason I like to take breaks from this forum.

I'm not trolling. It's what I believe.

You don't think a car as lovely as the Lotus deserves just as special, bespoke, engine? I do. And I say the same thing about the new Supra. To me, the soul of a sports car is the powertrain.

But because you disagree with me I'm trolling.

Gotcha

You have formed your opinion, that's fine. I'm just agreeing with Harry's video from the other thread, someone who has owned many Porsches, Ferraris, Maeratis, Zondas etc etc.  This is what he says about the engine:

https://youtu.be/CaYGanifXsk?t=940

I think they do great with the engine they have, no need for bespoke.

I disagree with you because I think your opinion is based on outdated information, that just isn't true. So you just keep spreading the same misinformation.

I've driven Lotuses, and a few Ferraris and Porsches. The Ferraris and Porsche are fast, loud, and handle great. But the lack of weight of a Lotus will always make it handle better IMHO. And for a Sunday fun car, I want it to be extra special.

Well yes, I never said the engine isn't very good for what it is.  I've owned one (sans blower), so I'm aware....it was a VERY good engine in the IS350 and it's only better with a blower (duh)    .  And yes, they've improved the tranny so it now has excellent feel and precision (which the first few versions definitely lacked).

But that's where the "extra special" comes in FOR ME.  I don't think it is with this combo. And I think that's where a more unique, bespoke engine fits into the equation.  For me.

And it's much like the new Supra in this regard.  Certainly nothing wrong with the BMW-sourced engine.  Excellent power, strong motorsport background, great sound, etc.

But the car itself would have been far, far more special with a Toyota I-6. IMO of course.

I mean....I don't think either of us is wrong, man.  We like what we like.  And I'm OK with that. 

But just because our opinions differ on the matter, it doesn't mean I'm trolling you....

Whatever.

[UnknownJinX]

The discussion of tall gearing came up in the Camaro forum today. It's hilarious to see Camaro/Corvette owners trying to defend the GT4 because the Camaro ZL1/Corvette C6 Z06 can do 85 MPH or so in 2nd gear, fully ignoring that they also have about 50~100% more torque than the GT4.

Kind of a shame they messed that one up. Should have made the gears shorter and more aggressive, since they aren't the most torquey engines and MR layout gives the car a lot better traction compared to an FR car.

Yeah.. i love the droptop experience, so Spyder please.
Is it worth 3x the price of an MX-5??  Hmmm...
The tall gearing would be a shock for me since i'm basically at redline at 30 km/h in 1st gear with the MX-5

MX-5 is obviously a better bang for the buck but if money is no object(and 911 doesn't exist), then yeah a Boxster would be it.

And Mazda at least gets the gearing right. That's the one thing I absolutely loved about my RX-8. The gear ratios work great for the engine and it's a blast if you know how to shift.

[rrocket]

And Mazda at least gets the gearing right. That's the one thing I absolutely loved about my RX-8. The gear ratios work great for the engine and it's a blast if you know how to shift.

That's because the RX8 had no torque and tall gearing would kill it...LOL

[UnknownJinX]

And Mazda at least gets the gearing right. That's the one thing I absolutely loved about my RX-8. The gear ratios work great for the engine and it's a blast if you know how to shift.

That's because the RX8 had no torque and tall gearing would kill it...LOL

I know that, and it's not much better on a Miata. My point is that with these low-torque, high-revving engines, you really need the good, short gear ratios.

Porsche GT4's engine isn't exactly weak but when you compare it to a myriad of NA V8 and turbo/supercharged 6-cylinders it's up against... It's not torquey, but it does have a 8,000 RPM redline, therefore it needs shorter gearing to wring it out. When the 2nd gear goes to 130 km/h+ at redline, that's just wrong for a engine like this.

I mean heck, my Camaro SS 1LE hits less than 130 km/h at redline, and the LT1 makes the equivalent of GT4's peak torque not much above idle. With an MR layout and high redline, I would say something in the range of 110 km/h at redline in second gear would be right.

[Angry Chicken]

My twin brother just bought a brand new 2020 Cayman GT4.  He picked it up 2 weeks ago.  Here's his "Porsche Code" http://www.porsche-code.com/PLYH4EG7 <click through the warning about fuel econ calculation>.  He optioned it just like I told him to LOL.  Funny/sad thing is (and I warned him about this) the car is not driveable in heavy rain with the standard fitment Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires.  He bought another set of Porsche OE rims and he's going to use Michelin Pilot AS/3+ for DD use.

If it was my money, I would buy a C8 Vette and pocket the 30K difference.  Then I would have a car for which the consumables (rotors, pads, etc.) and regular service command a GM price versus a Porsche price.  something like this: https://www.chevrolet.ca/byo-vc/client/en/CA/chevrolet/corvette/2020/corvette/summary?styleId=412075&rpo=LT2,M1L,Q8P,XFQ,GBA,AH2,HTG,IOT,719,Z51,J55,NPP,T0A,N26&ss=H4sIAAAAAAAAAH2Sv07DQAzGv/agExKw8AB0AgkpSRvaDgxpSK4tSZqWSxVlYmFlYUEs8D4MSOx9JV4BzombMlhYiuT7+fOfWAZwBrx9ozf/QPfxCd0wALHezef+3Xl+fdm+owOyU6hBYqAS40GlbgK1GudQZZxB6bGGCmY2MDMR1Hxpdfqu4oCeBjZQuBTV7FW+W+f+WENj51D9ft86Tb/eVVSaoLTeATMFDqyjcJky7NrvqMMl2KkHBY6bx8idsI6+S5ZiiLpCPfaup4qjAesIaJboybVEp8E+UacjQULbsAMz/Woa11toE2dmKUkKR6SuSD2RDkQqDlQUEt1sJFpNRZoJlO6g/dGF7wsbomtqJXRV7SPzaOmHDIZcMstzoQpdYptonECQbJyxQOl693NrblLGK0FLJ7trApzgAj5C3CK2igUSpMixwhr3MKjwgD/i/+wXm1kYs4sDAAA=&postalCode=K0A2W0

[Hannibalsmith]

^^Nice GT4 and a reasonable build. Did he have trouble finding an allocation?

But yes, we all want a race car for the street, but practically speaking unless you track the car regularly (or are wealthy and it’s your 5th car) then it needs to be somewhat practical.

The GTS 4.0 may be the ticket here.

[Angry Chicken]

This is his 3rd new Cayman from Mark Motors in Ottawa so I think they bent over backwards for him. He also got quite a bit taken off of the MSRP.

I think I would be tempted with the GTS 4.0 myself. No silly wing and you can order with the PDK.

[rrocket]

This is his 3rd new Cayman from Mark Motors in Ottawa so I think they bent over backwards for him. He also got quite a bit taken off of the MSRP.

I think I would be tempted with the GTS 4.0 myself. No silly wing and you can order with the PDK.

Congrats to him!

Man, I love that car...I'd settle for an "old" GT4 even.

[OliverD]

This is his 3rd new Cayman from Mark Motors in Ottawa so I think they bent over backwards for him. He also got quite a bit taken off of the MSRP.

I think I would be tempted with the GTS 4.0 myself. No silly wing and you can order with the PDK.

2021 GT4 is available with the PDK.

Nice spec on your brother's car, but he should have gone with Miami Blue. 

[DriverJeff]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

But... are you comparing the "regular" Caymans to the Evora / Exige, or the GT4?  The GT4 is unlike any other Cayman I've driven -- it's on a whole new level of visceral bliss.  While I haven't driven the Lotuseses, I do have the Alfa 4C as the tiny, raw comparable, and as much as I love the 4C, I still, to this day hold the last generation Cayman GT4 up as the best car I have ever driven.  If the new one remains as raw, but offers more power, I'm sure I'd like it even more. 

[Triple Bob]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

But... are you comparing the "regular" Caymans to the Evora / Exige, or the GT4?  The GT4 is unlike any other Cayman I've driven -- it's on a whole new level of visceral bliss.  While I haven't driven the Lotuseses, I do have the Alfa 4C as the tiny, raw comparable, and as much as I love the 4C, I still, to this day hold the last generation Cayman GT4 up as the best car I have ever driven.  If the new one remains as raw, but offers more power, I'm sure I'd like it even more.

I was just comparing on price. How much is/was a GT4?

[DriverJeff]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

But... are you comparing the "regular" Caymans to the Evora / Exige, or the GT4?  The GT4 is unlike any other Cayman I've driven -- it's on a whole new level of visceral bliss.  While I haven't driven the Lotuseses, I do have the Alfa 4C as the tiny, raw comparable, and as much as I love the 4C, I still, to this day hold the last generation Cayman GT4 up as the best car I have ever driven.  If the new one remains as raw, but offers more power, I'm sure I'd like it even more.

I was just comparing on price. How much is/was a GT4?

No, no... you said that stepping into a Cayman / Boxster after a regular car makes the regular car feel like a boat, and that stepping from a Cayman into an Exige is the same sensation.  My point was that stepping from a "regular" Cayman into a GT4 also feels like the regular Cayman is a boat and that the GT4 may be closer to your Exige experience than you'd expect. 

[Triple Bob]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

But... are you comparing the "regular" Caymans to the Evora / Exige, or the GT4?  The GT4 is unlike any other Cayman I've driven -- it's on a whole new level of visceral bliss.  While I haven't driven the Lotuseses, I do have the Alfa 4C as the tiny, raw comparable, and as much as I love the 4C, I still, to this day hold the last generation Cayman GT4 up as the best car I have ever driven.  If the new one remains as raw, but offers more power, I'm sure I'd like it even more.

I was just comparing on price. How much is/was a GT4?

No, no... you said that stepping into a Cayman / Boxster after a regular car makes the regular car feel like a boat, and that stepping from a Cayman into an Exige is the same sensation.  My point was that stepping from a "regular" Cayman into a GT4 also feels like the regular Cayman is a boat and that the GT4 may be closer to your Exige experience than you'd expect.

Ah, I see, agreed.

[Triple Bob]

Now come and take me for a ride in that bloody Boxster!

[rrocket]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

But... are you comparing the "regular" Caymans to the Evora / Exige, or the GT4?  The GT4 is unlike any other Cayman I've driven -- it's on a whole new level of visceral bliss.  While I haven't driven the Lotuseses, I do have the Alfa 4C as the tiny, raw comparable, and as much as I love the 4C, I still, to this day hold the last generation Cayman GT4 up as the best car I have ever driven.  If the new one remains as raw, but offers more power, I'm sure I'd like it even more.

I've not tried the new GT4, but agreed. But the old GT4 is incredible.

Read a recent review of the new GT4. Author said best street car ever.

I've been following a series on a website making their own GT4 from a regular Cayman S. The idea really, really appeals to me as I love modding...and I'll never be wealthy enough to own a GT4.

[DriverJeff]

"The reason I've never bought one, is because I don't have the money."

 

So what's this, $115K with maybe an additional $10K in options? For that sort of money I think I'd get an Evora Sport 410, or an Exige if I could find one. Lots of pros and cons when it comes to build quality, handling, specialness, practicality etc. YMMV

It's interesting when you step from a good car into a Cayman/Boxster and feel like you were in a boat before, there is still an element of that when you go from a Cayman/Boxster into an Exige. The Lotus feels truly like a race car for the road. Now some people might not want that level of involvement on a day to day basis, there is no relaxing. The Evora is the more relaxing choice.

But... are you comparing the "regular" Caymans to the Evora / Exige, or the GT4?  The GT4 is unlike any other Cayman I've driven -- it's on a whole new level of visceral bliss.  While I haven't driven the Lotuseses, I do have the Alfa 4C as the tiny, raw comparable, and as much as I love the 4C, I still, to this day hold the last generation Cayman GT4 up as the best car I have ever driven.  If the new one remains as raw, but offers more power, I'm sure I'd like it even more.

I've not tried the new GT4, but agreed. But the old GT4 is incredible.

Read a recent review of the new GT4. Author said best street car ever.

I've been following a series on a website making their own GT4 from a regular Cayman S. The idea really, really appeals to me as I love modding...and I'll never be wealthy enough to own a GT4.

That certainly appeals to me, too!  The best part would be building to exactly how you'd want it.  For me, I'd prefer it more of a sleeper without all the aggressive body splitters and spoilers, but with all the feel and fun of the GT4.