Author Topic: Porsche buying thread  (Read 232529 times)

Offline rrocket

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1860 on: January 04, 2024, 12:09:33 am »


Are you guys really saying that in any way other than objective speed/performance, that the 996 is more desirable than the 993?!

I've owned both.

It REALLY depends what you're looking for and who the car is for IMO.

When I was shopping for a replacement for my air cooled, I of course was comparing 996 vs 964/993 (and other air cooled). This was before the prices went completely bananas for daily driver level cars.

Now keep in mind my air cooled was my daily driver. In most every regard, the 996 was "better" than the old cars. And in many areas, significantly better. No shocker, newer 911s always tend to raise the bar over their predecessors.

But if nostalgia, classic ownership and "old" car feel is what matters most to you (and you're flat out wealthy), nothing but an air cooled 911 will do!  The styling of the 993 is better (and maybe not better in a 964. YMMV).  If you loathe the fried egger headlights of the 996, that might be reason alone for a hard pass! And again, the 993 has an air cooled engine; that's where it begins and ends for some people. It's also makes delightful clinking, pings and other such noises as it cools down in the garage. I'd be lying if I didn't say I spent HOURS just sitting in my Porsche (or the garage) as it cooled down just to listen to the symphony of the metal-cooling sounds.

Apart from those (and those might be big for some people! ), the 996 was a far better daily. And it's not close. Also, Regular Joe Stiff like me can actually still own a 996/997 vs an air cooled. And some people say a dream car you can actually afford/own is "better" than one you can't.

So it depends what you're looking for and what your primary needs/wants are.

And for me personally, I think a 996 TT is near the high water mark of 996 and daily driver cars I'd like to own in general. It still feels a bit "old" Porsche, yet modern. You can daily it, year round, no problem. Easy to maintain and most mechanical bits aren't eye watering to replace. Loads of aftermarket support. Metzger engine bomb proof.

Very important (to me) it still feels very analog (in a good way) when you drive it. Because that feeling went away post 997.2  It felt digital and a bit more lifeless despite the increase in performance.  For me, the 997.2 TT is the absolute high water 911 for MY needs/wants. But my 996 endeared itself to me in such a way that I'm ALWAYS on the look out for a high mileage 996 TT as a daily. I think it's a great car.

And I really think 996 are undervalued for what they are: a great daily sports car.

FWIW, I'd have this convo about a zillion a year with PCA guys at events.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Gurgie

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1861 on: January 04, 2024, 08:25:21 am »


Are you guys really saying that in any way other than objective speed/performance, that the 996 is more desirable than the 993?!

I've owned both.

It REALLY depends what you're looking for and who the car is for IMO.

When I was shopping for a replacement for my air cooled, I of course was comparing 996 vs 964/993 (and other air cooled). This was before the prices went completely bananas for daily driver level cars.

Now keep in mind my air cooled was my daily driver. In most every regard, the 996 was "better" than the old cars. And in many areas, significantly better. No shocker, newer 911s always tend to raise the bar over their predecessors.

But if nostalgia, classic ownership and "old" car feel is what matters most to you (and you're flat out wealthy), nothing but an air cooled 911 will do!  The styling of the 993 is better (and maybe not better in a 964. YMMV).  If you loathe the fried egger headlights of the 996, that might be reason alone for a hard pass! And again, the 993 has an air cooled engine; that's where it begins and ends for some people. It's also makes delightful clinking, pings and other such noises as it cools down in the garage. I'd be lying if I didn't say I spent HOURS just sitting in my Porsche (or the garage) as it cooled down just to listen to the symphony of the metal-cooling sounds.

Apart from those (and those might be big for some people! ), the 996 was a far better daily. And it's not close. Also, Regular Joe Stiff like me can actually still own a 996/997 vs an air cooled. And some people say a dream car you can actually afford/own is "better" than one you can't.

So it depends what you're looking for and what your primary needs/wants are.

And for me personally, I think a 996 TT is near the high water mark of 996 and daily driver cars I'd like to own in general. It still feels a bit "old" Porsche, yet modern. You can daily it, year round, no problem. Easy to maintain and most mechanical bits aren't eye watering to replace. Loads of aftermarket support. Metzger engine bomb proof.

Very important (to me) it still feels very analog (in a good way) when you drive it. Because that feeling went away post 997.2  It felt digital and a bit more lifeless despite the increase in performance.  For me, the 997.2 TT is the absolute high water 911 for MY needs/wants. But my 996 endeared itself to me in such a way that I'm ALWAYS on the look out for a high mileage 996 TT as a daily. I think it's a great car.

And I really think 996 are undervalued for what they are: a great daily sports car.

FWIW, I'd have this convo about a zillion a year with PCA guys at events.
Nice summary, appreciate it :cheers:


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You live everyday. You only die once....

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1862 on: January 04, 2024, 08:33:32 am »
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Offline DriverJeff

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1863 on: January 04, 2024, 04:05:05 pm »


Very important (to me) it still feels very analog (in a good way) when you drive it. Because that feeling went away post 997.2  It felt digital and a bit more lifeless despite the increase in performance.  For me, the 997.2 TT is the absolute high water 911 for MY needs/wants. But my 996 endeared itself to me in such a way that I'm ALWAYS on the look out for a high mileage 996 TT as a daily. I think it's a great car.

And I really think 996 are undervalued for what they are: a great daily sports car.


Bingo!  I was always rather lukewarm about the 996, based on its appearance and the general public's often ill-informed opinions and the suggestion that it's too soft, too modern... too.. well un-air-cooled and thus, 'un-porsche'. After driving a G-series, 993, 996 and 992 all back-to-back in the Swabian Alps this past summer, I came away shocked by the 996, especially hopping into the 992 immediately after. The 996 is notably smaller and so engaging. It makes sensational sounds. Its steering is incredible. It handles well and it's comfortable too -- all just like 911s, but it was just more fun.

Would I rather an air-cooled 911? Certainly. If I had to drive The Hire's 964 every day for the rest of my life, I'd be totally okay with that -- god, I adore that car.  But a good, 996 coupe would also make me a very happy camper indeed. 
The past:00 BMW M Rdstr, 19 Jetta, 15 Ducati Scrambler, 09 Triumph Bonneville, 98 Boxster, 17 Kawi Z900, 05 LS 430, 99 LS 400, 17 Subaru STI, 14 Triumph STR, 15 WRX, 09 Ducati Monster 1100,  08 335i, 06 Suzuki SV650S, 06 330i, 06 MX-5, 04 Audi A4, 03 Suzuki SV650S, 98 328i, 93 Civic Si, 85 Corolla

Offline OliverD

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1864 on: January 04, 2024, 04:17:02 pm »


Very important (to me) it still feels very analog (in a good way) when you drive it. Because that feeling went away post 997.2  It felt digital and a bit more lifeless despite the increase in performance.  For me, the 997.2 TT is the absolute high water 911 for MY needs/wants. But my 996 endeared itself to me in such a way that I'm ALWAYS on the look out for a high mileage 996 TT as a daily. I think it's a great car.

And I really think 996 are undervalued for what they are: a great daily sports car.


Bingo!  I was always rather lukewarm about the 996, based on its appearance and the general public's often ill-informed opinions and the suggestion that it's too soft, too modern... too.. well un-air-cooled and thus, 'un-porsche'. After driving a G-series, 993, 996 and 992 all back-to-back in the Swabian Alps this past summer, I came away shocked by the 996, especially hopping into the 992 immediately after. The 996 is notably smaller and so engaging. It makes sensational sounds. Its steering is incredible. It handles well and it's comfortable too -- all just like 911s, but it was just more fun.

Would I rather an air-cooled 911? Certainly. If I had to drive The Hire's 964 every day for the rest of my life, I'd be totally okay with that -- god, I adore that car.  But a good, 996 coupe would also make me a very happy camper indeed.

I think the issue with the 996 is that it is bookended by much more desirable cars.

The 993 because it's the last of the air-cooled models and is still closely related to the original 911.

The 997 because it's still relatively compact, looks much better than the 996, is still analog yet is more comfortable and has a much more modern interior.

If you can live without those attributes then by all means the 996 is the one to get. There certainly is no better value in the world of 911s.

My dream 996 is a Zanzibar Red Turbo X50, like this one: https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-996-turbo-2003-1193977/


Offline jaman

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1865 on: January 04, 2024, 04:49:44 pm »
Could have bought this one for $49K USD plus fees.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-porsche-911-turbo-coupe-6-speed/

Worse case scenario is that you don’t like the 996 and end up selling it. If you have the means, I don’t see a downside to buying a 996TT.

Offline marcus_go

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1866 on: January 04, 2024, 09:53:03 pm »
Truth be told they are no bad 911s. Different generations appeal to different buyers.

Good video summarizing the 993 and 996.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYse1JLfF5k

Offline rrocket

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1867 on: January 04, 2024, 10:08:56 pm »
I had a base 996. Even had 17s. Only options were LSD and full leather interior.

 A perfect spec! Was about 2900lbs or so.

A real great daily. Sounded great with the modified Fister muffler!

Offline marcus_go

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1868 on: January 04, 2024, 11:20:28 pm »
I had a base 996. Even had 17s. Only options were LSD and full leather interior.

 A perfect spec! Was about 2900lbs or so.

A real great daily. Sounded great with the modified Fister muffler!

Yeah, sometimes the basic spec'd cars are nice. Everything you need. Nothing you don't.

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1869 on: January 05, 2024, 07:57:43 am »
The SBC-swapped sloped-nose '77 911 on BaT sold for $38k - probably a fraction of the build cost.


Offline Blueprint

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1870 on: January 05, 2024, 08:08:36 am »
Nice project car in nearby North Conway NH. Tons of upgrades were bolted in before the blower motor fire (note: not an EV fire  ;D).

No reserve auction, now at $15,250 USD

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-porsche-911s-targa-4/



Seller is parting out the car a bit, has separate BaT auctions for the redone seats and engine.

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1871 on: January 05, 2024, 09:20:38 am »
Bringing a 1979 930 Turbo to BaT soon for a client and I'll actually have to "wrench" on the thing. It's a US car that came with the mandatory 85 mph speedo from the factory, and at some point after 1986 it was changed to a 150 mph one. The mileage seems consistent with the paper trail, so it's either the original unit that was refaced or a new one where the odo was calibrated. The vehicle's 2nd owner is a Porsche/Ferrari dealer and I talked to him over the phone. He sold the car to the original owner in '79 and bought it back from him in 1984, before selling it again in '86. The speedos in these cars are super easy to pull out and he told me what to look for when I do so. Found a how-to vid and it seems quite simple, much more so than pulling the unit in my TR6. I'll get to the bottom of the speedo thing as it's pretty much the only squeletton in this car's otherwise very well documented closet. 930's could reach 90 mph on 2nd gear, so most if not all owners swapped the speedo when US laws allowed it.

The thing is pretty unique - one of the rarest Porsche paint codes (Talbot yellow - never seen in a BaT auction yet) paired with a very interesting leather colour...


Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1872 on: January 05, 2024, 09:42:54 am »
Not for an introvert!  :D

Offline DriverJeff

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1873 on: January 05, 2024, 12:16:08 pm »
I had a base 996. Even had 17s. Only options were LSD and full leather interior.

 A perfect spec! Was about 2900lbs or so.

A real great daily. Sounded great with the modified Fister muffler!

And you went and sold it.  And not to me!   >:(

Offline OliverD

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1874 on: January 05, 2024, 12:48:13 pm »
I had a base 996. Even had 17s. Only options were LSD and full leather interior.

 A perfect spec! Was about 2900lbs or so.

A real great daily. Sounded great with the modified Fister muffler!

Was yours one of those weird very early build 996s? The ones that were handbuilt on the same production line that was still putting out 993s? Or did you have the "regular" '99 996 (which still had a bunch of notable differences from the later years).

My understanding is that those early 996s had the amber lenses and unique interior materials amongst other differences.

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1875 on: January 05, 2024, 01:36:13 pm »

Offline OliverD

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1876 on: January 05, 2024, 01:50:44 pm »
Really nice 996 special edition here: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-porsche-911-carrera-4-millennium-19/

Amazing that there are still 911 models I've never heard of before.

I wonder what that colour looks like in real life. Just looks black in most pictures.

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1877 on: January 05, 2024, 02:00:10 pm »
Really nice 996 special edition here: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-porsche-911-carrera-4-millennium-19/

Amazing that there are still 911 models I've never heard of before.

I wonder what that colour looks like in real life. Just looks black in most pictures.

Commenters are asking for pics in the sun to really view the colour - won't be necessary with my listing  ;D

Offline marcus_go

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1878 on: January 05, 2024, 08:32:04 pm »
Really nice 996 special edition here: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-porsche-911-carrera-4-millennium-19/

Amazing that there are still 911 models I've never heard of before.

I wonder what that colour looks like in real life. Just looks black in most pictures.

It appears to have a nice hue of violet/purple in certain light. https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-911-carrera-4-millenium-edition-996-2000/

Vesuvio metallic that was offered on the 993 also had that purple hue in it. Very attractive colour that brings big $$$ at auction. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-porsche-911-carrera-s-coupe-24/

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Porsche buying thread
« Reply #1879 on: January 10, 2024, 10:29:43 am »
Fun video on various dash controls on the air-coolers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlUnQDnHZh0

While taking pics of "my" 930, I found quite a few mysterious unlabeled switches - the video explains all of them, except the one that intrigued me most - my listing car has a round hole to the right of the steering column. On most web pics I see, there's a blank plug there, while some cars have something that's either a red button or a red light.

Anyone has an idea what it is for?

Round plug (web pic) :

And then here's a fan speed dial in this spot (accessory a/c or defroster?) :