Author Topic: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!  (Read 81267 times)

Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2019, 08:18:25 am »
Wokeism is nothing more than the recognition and opposition of bigotry in all its forms.  Bigots are predictably triggered.

Offline dougjp

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2019, 08:43:06 am »
I like the look of the rendering. I hope they don't go all track focus with it like the Veloster.

For the normal Sonata they should have enhanced their 2.0 turbo as the optional engine and gone straight to competitive market levels instead of downgrading from a 2.0 to a 1.6 turbo at the same time as introducing a total design revision. Instead they will have 2 engines offered that are somewhat similar with only the base engine being fairly competitive against other base engines in the segment. Then they are going to add a 2.0 or 2.5 in a year, resulting in 3 engine options. Can't imagine in this segment how sustainable a business model that is. Reminds me of the Dodge Dart mix except it was even worse with 3 similar spec engines. 

Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2019, 11:01:07 am »
I like the look of the rendering. I hope they don't go all track focus with it like the Veloster.

For a big sedan like the Sonata, I doubt it.  Besides this is the 'N-Line' in the new Hyundai parlance - indicating a sporty upgrade but not full on max-effort performance version that the solitary 'N' designation would suggest.

Offline dougjp

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2019, 11:39:31 am »
I like the look of the rendering. I hope they don't go all track focus with it like the Veloster.

For a big sedan like the Sonata, I doubt it.  Besides this is the 'N-Line' in the new Hyundai parlance - indicating a sporty upgrade but not full on max-effort performance version that the solitary 'N' designation would suggest.

When the Elantra GT got the N Line treatment, vs. 2018, the following happened;

Engine mount stiffness
+ 6.3%
Trans mount stiffness
+ 24.0%
“Rollrod” mount stiffness
+ 37.1%
Spring stiffness (F/R)
+14.3%/+21.9%
Stability Bar diameter (F/R)
23 mm / 17 mm vs. 24 mm / 14 mm
Shocks
new tuning
Steering
New calibration
Tires
Michelin PS4 225/40 R18 Summer (MT only)

While reducing understeer and improving cornering on track, this has to have an effect on ride quality. A number of comments in forums about this, and some guys wanting to improve track performance on previous versions are already installing parts like motor and tranny mounts, and different bars.

And with the Sonata, you can be sure they will use the smallest tire aspect ratio which also affects ride of course. They could introduce adjustable suspension to allow a luxury component back into it, but so far the N focus doesn't include enhancing luxury. Some people want both and some manufacturers cater to that (eg: G70 Sport but unfortunately there they also went with 35 aspect on the back). The segment of old guys with money who want power and luxury ride is under served  ::)

Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2019, 01:57:10 pm »
You think the Elantra N-line is "all race track focussed" like the Veloster N?  ???  I sure don't.

Absent adaptable suspension, making the car ANY sportier in terms of handling will result in SOME degree of compromise in ride compliance, however small.  But good heavens, that hardly means that a kidney-crushing tooth-rattling ride is an inevitable consequence.

Offline dougjp

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2019, 02:23:16 pm »
You think the Elantra N-line is "all race track focused" like the Veloster N?  ???  I sure don't.

Absent adaptable suspension, making the car ANY sportier in terms of handling will result in SOME degree of compromise in ride compliance, however small.  But good heavens, that hardly means that a kidney-crushing tooth-rattling ride is an inevitable consequence.

You missed what I said. The Veloster N is the track focused car. The Elantra GT N Line is the Audi S-Line approach, a street car. HOWEVER when Hyundai went this way, they did stuff that made the Elantra GT worse riding than the 2018 Elantra GT Sport (the model it directly replaced). Therefore an indication of how Hyundai thinks re: the kind of buyer they think "N-line" will be. My track days are in my mirror, and I'm looking for something, and they APPEAR to be going the opposite direction. That's all.

Offline OliverD

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2019, 02:40:01 pm »
I think it's rare that you can improve the handling of a car without compromising the ride. That should be expected of any "sporty" car. How much of a compromise is acceptable is of course dependent on the car's exact mission.

Offline dougjp

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2019, 03:19:05 pm »
I think it's rare that you can improve the handling of a car without compromising the ride. That should be expected of any "sporty" car. How much of a compromise is acceptable is of course dependent on the car's exact mission.

There's a huge misconception about what drives what decisions when it comes to handling and ride. Aesthetically speaking, larger rims are preferred these days as we all know. Just look at the ridiculous aspect ratios on concept cars at car shows, tire and wheel option sizes as the model price goes up etc. Or anyone's comments in car forums about cars that have "small wheels" = looks cheap, low rent etc.

In fact a tire's sidewall is an important part of handling, minimize it to an extreme and handling and ride both become worse!

For example, Formula 1 tire's aspect ratio? Huge sidewalls, why?


    "The subject of bigger wheels has been raised many times over the last five or eight years," said (ex) Mercedes Formula 1 executive technical director Paddy Lowe.

    "The broad consensus is that going to bigger wheels is not a good direction. From a grip point of view it's not positive.

    "Like for like, such tires will have a lower grip and the weight will go up considerably, so it's not an attractive direction performance-wise."

As a car corners its tires deflect a little to keep in contact with the tarmac, and how they deflect is a big part of handling - stiffer sidewalls will mean less deflection and therefore less contact with the tarmac. The size of the wheel rims will also increase mass at the hub - it takes more effort to spin the larger mass; also increasing the unsprung weight. Stiffer sidewalls due to very small sidewalls makes ride worse of course, and in addition significantly increases the odds of ruining an expensive wheel on a pothole. And the cost of larger wheels, smaller sidewall tires......

In summary, aesthetics has been determined to be all important, even at the expense of everything else.
     

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2019, 03:59:03 pm »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

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Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2019, 05:38:00 pm »
I think it's rare that you can improve the handling of a car without compromising the ride. That should be expected of any "sporty" car. How much of a compromise is acceptable is of course dependent on the car's exact mission.

Agreed.  Also weird that on an enthusiast board, when a manufacturer is offering a sporty variant of a mainstream sedan, there is so much angst about the cost in ride quality.  It's not like they're going to stop offering the cushy standard versions.

And gee, I guess I will admit that it's news to me that all performance cars could benefit from giant puffy tires with huge sidewalls.  I'm sure it will be just a moment before Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, McLaren and Bugatti catch on - those fools clearly don't know what they're doing.  ::)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 05:45:38 pm by Jaeger »

Offline dougjp

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2019, 06:14:33 pm »
I think it's rare that you can improve the handling of a car without compromising the ride. That should be expected of any "sporty" car. How much of a compromise is acceptable is of course dependent on the car's exact mission.

Agreed.  Also weird that on an enthusiast board, when a manufacturer is offering a sporty variant of a mainstream sedan, there is so much angst about the cost in ride quality.  It's not like they're going to stop offering the cushy standard versions.

People want both.....for the street, for our climate, and our "roads".  Also standard versions are denied the good stuff people want. Catch 22.

And gee, I guess I will admit that it's news to me that all performance cars could benefit from giant puffy tires with huge sidewalls.  I'm sure it will be just a moment before Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, McLaren and Bugatti catch on - those fools clearly don't know what they're doing.  ::)

Nobody intended to talk only with overstatements. They aren't fools, they know how to sell cars and make excellent handling ones too. No question to me and certainly not news that changing from, say 30 aspect ratio tires to 40 aspect would improve ride and not reduce handling, probably improve that too. I don't think there are many smarter technical minds than in F1. 

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2019, 06:55:44 pm »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
^^
this.

i hate rubber band tires...expensive, usually harsher riding, and bigger wheels have more weight (maybe wear out the front end components sooner?).
When you've lost the argument, admit defeat and hit the smite button.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2019, 10:02:23 am »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
^^
this.

i hate rubber band tires...expensive, usually harsher riding, and bigger wheels have more weight (maybe wear out the front end components sooner?).

Aaaaand let's count up the mainstream midsize sedans using ultra low profile rubber band tires......

Offline OliverD

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2019, 10:18:00 am »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.

IIRC the Achievable SCX had 14” wheels while the lesse SC had 16s. Random bit of useless trivia for the day.

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #94 on: April 19, 2019, 05:33:17 pm »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
^^
this.

i hate rubber band tires...expensive, usually harsher riding, and bigger wheels have more weight (maybe wear out the front end components sooner?).

Aaaaand let's count up the mainstream midsize sedans using ultra low profile rubber band tires......
this isn't a mainstream midsize sedan criticism (or even a criticism of this Sonata), just a comment in general...i mean, pick up trucks are now coming with 20 and 22 inch wheels with relatively low profile tires on them too.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #95 on: April 19, 2019, 07:21:16 pm »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
^^
this.

i hate rubber band tires...expensive, usually harsher riding, and bigger wheels have more weight (maybe wear out the front end components sooner?).

Aaaaand let's count up the mainstream midsize sedans using ultra low profile rubber band tires......
this isn't a mainstream midsize sedan criticism (or even a criticism of this Sonata), just a comment in general...i mean, pick up trucks are now coming with 20 and 22 inch wheels with relatively low profile tires on them too.

This is a mainstream midsize sedan thread with a lot of hand wringing over the offering of a sportier version of a mainstream midsize sedan. Which I would have thought would  have been well received by an enthusiast audience. But apparently ride comfort matters beyond all, and any improvement in handling which comes at the most fractional cost in ride comfort is just deplorable.  ::)

Offline dougjp

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #96 on: April 19, 2019, 08:07:13 pm »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
^^
this.

i hate rubber band tires...expensive, usually harsher riding, and bigger wheels have more weight (maybe wear out the front end components sooner?).

Aaaaand let's count up the mainstream midsize sedans using ultra low profile rubber band tires......
this isn't a mainstream midsize sedan criticism (or even a criticism of this Sonata), just a comment in general...i mean, pick up trucks are now coming with 20 and 22 inch wheels with relatively low profile tires on them too.

This is a mainstream midsize sedan thread with a lot of hand wringing over the offering of a sportier version of a mainstream midsize sedan. Which I would have thought would  have been well received by an enthusiast audience. But apparently ride comfort matters beyond all, and any improvement in handling which comes at the most fractional cost in ride comfort is just deplorable.  ::)

Total BS due to failure to read and comprehend. You just want to keep a thread going and have the last word. Nothing else seems to matter, based on past history.

Offline Seafoam

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #97 on: April 19, 2019, 08:48:35 pm »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
^^
this.

i hate rubber band tires...expensive, usually harsher riding, and bigger wheels have more weight (maybe wear out the front end components sooner?).

Aaaaand let's count up the mainstream midsize sedans using ultra low profile rubber band tires......
this isn't a mainstream midsize sedan criticism (or even a criticism of this Sonata), just a comment in general...i mean, pick up trucks are now coming with 20 and 22 inch wheels with relatively low profile tires on them too.

This is a mainstream midsize sedan thread with a lot of hand wringing over the offering of a sportier version of a mainstream midsize sedan. Which I would have thought would  have been well received by an enthusiast audience. But apparently ride comfort matters beyond all, and any improvement in handling which comes at the most fractional cost in ride comfort is just deplorable.  ::)

Total BS due to failure to read and comprehend. You just want to keep a thread going and have the last word. Nothing else seems to matter, based on past history.

True
2023 Honda Civic EX-B
2004 Mazdaspeed Miata

Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #98 on: April 19, 2019, 09:06:04 pm »
^ EXACTLY

Wheels and tires are driven much more by fashion than performance for the last number of years.
^^
this.

i hate rubber band tires...expensive, usually harsher riding, and bigger wheels have more weight (maybe wear out the front end components sooner?).

Aaaaand let's count up the mainstream midsize sedans using ultra low profile rubber band tires......
this isn't a mainstream midsize sedan criticism (or even a criticism of this Sonata), just a comment in general...i mean, pick up trucks are now coming with 20 and 22 inch wheels with relatively low profile tires on them too.

This is a mainstream midsize sedan thread with a lot of hand wringing over the offering of a sportier version of a mainstream midsize sedan. Which I would have thought would  have been well received by an enthusiast audience. But apparently ride comfort matters beyond all, and any improvement in handling which comes at the most fractional cost in ride comfort is just deplorable.  ::)

Total BS due to failure to read and comprehend. You just want to keep a thread going and have the last word. Nothing else seems to matter, based on past history.


Offline Jaeger

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Re: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!
« Reply #99 on: June 02, 2019, 06:20:26 pm »
Video review (a bit annoying, but you can see the car in motion).  I don't think candy apple red works on this car.  At all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQotqfQNOqE
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 06:25:02 pm by Jaeger »