Topic: 2020 Hyundai Sonata - easy on the eyes!

[dougjp]

TheStraightPipes did a review of the "optional engined" 1.6T Sonata, called it slow. I'm not discussing the future N version for a moment, because based on the comments so far, unfortunately its not going to be optioned or compromised for a mainstream (comfort) audience, and therefore of limited importance.

The decision to have 2 engines pretty much the same performance wise for the normal car, but saying one is just for the higher priced trims, still baffles me. This is a BIG car, nearly 3" longer than the present Sonata and approaching Genesis G80 size. Yet for the mainstream car, just a 1.6 turbo as an option is supposed to be OK with anyone? Why did they bother with 2. And has anyone seen what the reasoning is for this turbo to be 21 HP less than the 1.6T I had in my previously owned Elantra Sport, a much lighter car? Seem like big mistakes to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oewp0M2BhE&t=624s

[rrocket]

TheStraightPipes did a review of the "optional engined" 1.6T Sonata, called it slow.

Yep, that's the gist I got from a couple stories.

[Jaeger]

TheStraightPipes did a review of the "optional engined" 1.6T Sonata, called it slow. I'm not discussing the future N version for a moment, because based on the comments so far, unfortunately its not going to be optioned or compromised for a mainstream (comfort) audience, and therefore of limited importance.

The decision to have 2 engines pretty much the same performance wise for the normal car, but saying one is just for the higher priced trims, still baffles me. This is a BIG car, nearly 3" longer than the present Sonata and approaching Genesis G80 size. Yet for the mainstream car, just a 1.6 turbo as an option is supposed to be OK with anyone? Why did they bother with 2. And has anyone seen what the reasoning is for this turbo to be 21 HP less than the 1.6T I had in my previously owned Elantra Sport, a much lighter car? Seem like big mistakes to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oewp0M2BhE&t=624s

1) You need to watch more of their reviews to put "slow" in context.  They call a lot of decently quick cars slow.  Most of the reviews I have seen call the 1.6t entirely adequate and I am sure it is at least that.  Also, the Straight Pipes review was overwhelmingly positive in totality.

2) This thing will not weight anything close to a Genesis - and it is power to weight that matters, not power to size.  It will be in the ballpark of performance of the 4-pot Camry and 1.5t Accord, which is where it should be.  Throttle House compared it directly against the 4 pot Camry and didn't call it slow. The 2.5t in the N line will provide similar or better power than the V6 Camry and 2.0t Accord.

3) Sure, having two engines of similar performance may seem redundant, but why should that trouble the buyer?  Choice is good. 

I'm really not sure what has you so perplexed.

[dougjp]

TheStraightPipes did a review of the "optional engined" 1.6T Sonata, called it slow. I'm not discussing the future N version for a moment, because based on the comments so far, unfortunately its not going to be optioned or compromised for a mainstream (comfort) audience, and therefore of limited importance.

The decision to have 2 engines pretty much the same performance wise for the normal car, but saying one is just for the higher priced trims, still baffles me. This is a BIG car, nearly 3" longer than the present Sonata and approaching Genesis G80 size. Yet for the mainstream car, just a 1.6 turbo as an option is supposed to be OK with anyone? Why did they bother with 2. And has anyone seen what the reasoning is for this turbo to be 21 HP less than the 1.6T I had in my previously owned Elantra Sport, a much lighter car? Seem like big mistakes to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oewp0M2BhE&t=624s

1) You need to watch their reviews to put "slow" in context.  They call a lot of decently quick cars slow.  Most of the reviews I have seen call the 1.6t entirely adequate and I am sure it is at least that.

2) This thing will not weight anything close to a Genesis - and it is power to weight that matters, not power to size.  It will be in the ballpark of performance of the 4-pot Camry and 1.5t Accord, which is where it should be.  The 2.5t in the N line will provide similar or better power than the V6 Camry and 2.0t Accord.

3) Sure, having two engines of similar performance may seem redundant, but why should that trouble the buyer?  Choice is good. 

I'm really not sure what has you so perplexed.

I hear you, up until that closer comment, which is surprising.

Its obvious, some people care about what they are buying, aren't oblivious to upsells etc., know something about what they are buying and won't accept/pay extra for just anything because they are told to. Adequate doesn't cut it for everyone, I mean, why not just put a 148 HP atkinson cycle from the base Elantra into the thing.

Agree about power to weight, but power is down a lot for a 1.6T, which was the main portion of my point.

[Jaeger]

TheStraightPipes did a review of the "optional engined" 1.6T Sonata, called it slow. I'm not discussing the future N version for a moment, because based on the comments so far, unfortunately its not going to be optioned or compromised for a mainstream (comfort) audience, and therefore of limited importance.

The decision to have 2 engines pretty much the same performance wise for the normal car, but saying one is just for the higher priced trims, still baffles me. This is a BIG car, nearly 3" longer than the present Sonata and approaching Genesis G80 size. Yet for the mainstream car, just a 1.6 turbo as an option is supposed to be OK with anyone? Why did they bother with 2. And has anyone seen what the reasoning is for this turbo to be 21 HP less than the 1.6T I had in my previously owned Elantra Sport, a much lighter car? Seem like big mistakes to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oewp0M2BhE&t=624s

1) You need to watch their reviews to put "slow" in context.  They call a lot of decently quick cars slow.  Most of the reviews I have seen call the 1.6t entirely adequate and I am sure it is at least that.

2) This thing will not weight anything close to a Genesis - and it is power to weight that matters, not power to size.  It will be in the ballpark of performance of the 4-pot Camry and 1.5t Accord, which is where it should be.  The 2.5t in the N line will provide similar or better power than the V6 Camry and 2.0t Accord.

3) Sure, having two engines of similar performance may seem redundant, but why should that trouble the buyer?  Choice is good. 

I'm really not sure what has you so perplexed.

I hear you, up until that closer comment, which is surprising.

Its obvious, some people care about what they are buying, aren't oblivious to upsells etc., know something about what they are buying and won't accept/pay extra for just anything because they are told to. Adequate doesn't cut it for everyone, I mean, why not just put a 148 HP atkinson cycle from the base Elantra into the thing.

Agree about power to weight, but power is down a lot for a 1.6T, which was the main portion of my point.

What's surprising?  You said you were baffled. I don't see the cause for bafflement.  Adequate power is what you get in the entry level Camry, Accord, Altima and Mazda 6 - it sure cuts it for the majority of segment shoppers.  Of course some people want more than adequate power. And with all of the foregoing except the Altima, you can get more power if you want it - which you will be able to when the 2.5T Sonata comes out. 

Again, I don't see why you are baffled.  A Sonata buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the 2.5t.  a Camry buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the V6.  An Accord buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the 2.0t.  Doesn't seem like a an inscrutable equation to me.

And if you really see no difference between a 148hp Atkinson and this 1.6t, then I can't help you see it.

[dougjp]

TheStraightPipes did a review of the "optional engined" 1.6T Sonata, called it slow. I'm not discussing the future N version for a moment, because based on the comments so far, unfortunately its not going to be optioned or compromised for a mainstream (comfort) audience, and therefore of limited importance.

The decision to have 2 engines pretty much the same performance wise for the normal car, but saying one is just for the higher priced trims, still baffles me. This is a BIG car, nearly 3" longer than the present Sonata and approaching Genesis G80 size. Yet for the mainstream car, just a 1.6 turbo as an option is supposed to be OK with anyone? Why did they bother with 2. And has anyone seen what the reasoning is for this turbo to be 21 HP less than the 1.6T I had in my previously owned Elantra Sport, a much lighter car? Seem like big mistakes to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oewp0M2BhE&t=624s

1) You need to watch their reviews to put "slow" in context.  They call a lot of decently quick cars slow.  Most of the reviews I have seen call the 1.6t entirely adequate and I am sure it is at least that.

2) This thing will not weight anything close to a Genesis - and it is power to weight that matters, not power to size.  It will be in the ballpark of performance of the 4-pot Camry and 1.5t Accord, which is where it should be.  The 2.5t in the N line will provide similar or better power than the V6 Camry and 2.0t Accord.

3) Sure, having two engines of similar performance may seem redundant, but why should that trouble the buyer?  Choice is good. 

I'm really not sure what has you so perplexed.

I hear you, up until that closer comment, which is surprising.

Its obvious, some people care about what they are buying, aren't oblivious to upsells etc., know something about what they are buying and won't accept/pay extra for just anything because they are told to. Adequate doesn't cut it for everyone, I mean, why not just put a 148 HP atkinson cycle from the base Elantra into the thing.

Agree about power to weight, but power is down a lot for a 1.6T, which was the main portion of my point.

What's surprising?  You said you were baffled. I don't see the cause for bafflement.  Adequate power is what you get in the entry level Camry, Accord, Altima and Mazda 6 - it sure cuts it for the majority of segment shoppers.  Of course some people want more than adequate power. And with all of the foregoing except the Altima, you can get more power if you want it - which you will be able to when the 2.5T Sonata comes out. 

Again, I don't see why you are baffled.  A Sonata buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the 2.5t.  a Camry buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the V6.  An Accord buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the 2.0t.  Doesn't seem like a an inscrutable equation to me.

And if you really see no difference between a 148hp Atkinson and this 1.6t, then I can't help you see it.

Your last sentence defeated your own argument.

[rrocket]

Again, I don't see why you are baffled.  A Sonata buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the 2.5t.  a Camry buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the V6.  An Accord buyer who wants more than adequate power gets the 2.0t.  Doesn't seem like a an inscrutable equation to me.

It's at least a bit perplexing. You have the 180hp 1.6T and the 190hp 2.5. Which one is the more than adequate engine?

Oh wait, neither....that would be the rumoured 2.5T. In the N-Line.

A bit perplexing you can't get the good engine with a regular Sonata...as you can with the Accord or Camry. No need to jump to a TRD version.

I too expected a bit more punch for the regular Sonata. I mean...you could get a 225hp 1.8T 20 years ago....

Beautiful interior though!

[EV Dan]

There's been talk about Hyundai using both, port and direct injection in some of their engines. I can't recall which, but maybe they see the 1.6t as a more sophisticated engine that commands a price premium. Maybe it's more fuel efficient too, on paper anyway. Like others though, I don't see why it's necessary to have 4 different engine options in a family sedan. (there will be a hybrid as well)

[rrocket]

There's been talk about Hyundai using both, port and direct injection in some of their engines. I can't recall which, but maybe they see the 1.6t as a more sophisticated engine that commands a price premium. Maybe it's more fuel efficient too, on paper anyway. Like others though, I don't see why it's necessary to have 4 different engine options in a family sedan. (there will be a hybrid as well)

Actually, from what I read, the 2.5 gets all the latest tech..efficiency wise anyways.

"The 2.5 has all the latest efficiency tricks: It runs the Atkinson combustion cycle and has split cooling circuits, an exhaust manifold integrated with its head, and both port and direct fuel injection. Indeed, with a projected EPA combined fuel-economy rating of 33 mpg, it moves nearly to the top of the segment and ahead of the turbocharged 1.6-liter's predicted 31 mpg. "

[EV Dan]

There's been talk about Hyundai using both, port and direct injection in some of their engines. I can't recall which, but maybe they see the 1.6t as a more sophisticated engine that commands a price premium. Maybe it's more fuel efficient too, on paper anyway. Like others though, I don't see why it's necessary to have 4 different engine options in a family sedan. (there will be a hybrid as well)

Actually, from what I read, the 2.5 gets all the latest tech..efficiency wise anyways.

"The 2.5 has all the latest efficiency tricks: It runs the Atkinson combustion cycle and has split cooling circuits, an exhaust manifold integrated with its head, and both port and direct fuel injection. Indeed, with a projected EPA combined fuel-economy rating of 33 mpg, it moves nearly to the top of the segment and ahead of the turbocharged 1.6-liter's predicted 31 mpg. "

Good to know. I think large corporations just make strange decisions sometimes... Could it be they wanted consumers to have an impression of engine choices while both, the 2.5t and the hybrid are a few+ months away?

[Jaeger]

It's at least a bit perplexing. You have the 180hp 1.6T and the 190hp 2.5. Which one is the more than adequate engine?

Oh wait, neither....that would be the rumoured 2.5T. In the N-Line.

Lol you are easily perplexed.  The 2.5t N Line isn't rumored - it's confirmed - they even gave journalists the opportunity to drive a pre-production version.  I mean, it helps your argument if the car is merely a web rumor, and the two sub-200 hp engines are all the engines there will ever be in the Sonata.  But that would be pure fantasy. 

Geez, you act like a car company releasing an entry level motor, then a more powerful one a bit later is something baffling and perplexing.  It's actually quite common.  In my Sonata the uplevel 2.0t followed the release of the base 2.5 by almost a year.

So to answer your question - both the n/a 2.5 and the 1.6t are "adequate", while the 2.5t is "ample" and in the same ballpark as the Accord 2.0T and Camry V6.

Not. Very.  Baffling.

[Bubba]

Sad that I can build and price a 2020 Sonata on Hyundai's US site, but not Canada's.

[rrocket]

It's at least a bit perplexing. You have the 180hp 1.6T and the 190hp 2.5. Which one is the more than adequate engine?

Oh wait, neither....that would be the rumoured 2.5T. In the N-Line.

Lol you are easily perplexed.  The 2.5t N Line isn't rumored - it's confirmed - they even gave journalists the opportunity to drive a pre-production version.  I mean, it helps your argument if the car is merely a web rumor, and the two sub-100 hp engines are all the engines there will ever be in the Sonata.  But that would be pure fantasy. 

Geez, you act like a car company releasing an entry level motor, then a more powerful one a bit later is something baffling and perplexing.  It's actually quite common.  In my Sonata the uplevel 2.0t followed the release of the base 2.5 by almost a year.

So to answer your question - both the n/a 2.5 and the 1.6t are "adequate", while the 2.5t is "ample" and in the same ballpark as the Accord 2.0T and Camry V6.

Not. Very.  Baffling.

The upside engines are available in "normal" trims in the competition. Especially in Toyotas case, no need to go to TRD line (which is similar to N-Line idea). And yea...you could get the premium 2.0T within the "normal" old Sonata line.

No so with this new Hyundai. Gotta go with to be released sometime N-Line if you want more power. Disappointing...I think most real world drivers would prefer the 2.5T if they wanted more power without stepping up to N-Line...though maybe that would fix the somewhat disappointing suspension tuning of the "normal" models.

Should be available in normal trims for this family sedan segment IMO. Has worked well for the competition.

Also..when an average consumer is shopping, the "premium" 1.6T engine shows less HP than "base" engine. I'd say the average consumer might not dig deeper and look at torque graphs to decipher why the 1.6T is the "premium" engine.

So yes, might be perplexing for the average consumer and not fan boys like you.

[Jaeger]

It's at least a bit perplexing. You have the 180hp 1.6T and the 190hp 2.5. Which one is the more than adequate engine?

Oh wait, neither....that would be the rumoured 2.5T. In the N-Line.

Lol you are easily perplexed.  The 2.5t N Line isn't rumored - it's confirmed - they even gave journalists the opportunity to drive a pre-production version.  I mean, it helps your argument if the car is merely a web rumor, and the two sub-100 hp engines are all the engines there will ever be in the Sonata.  But that would be pure fantasy. 

Geez, you act like a car company releasing an entry level motor, then a more powerful one a bit later is something baffling and perplexing.  It's actually quite common.  In my Sonata the uplevel 2.0t followed the release of the base 2.5 by almost a year.

So to answer your question - both the n/a 2.5 and the 1.6t are "adequate", while the 2.5t is "ample" and in the same ballpark as the Accord 2.0T and Camry V6.

Not. Very.  Baffling.

The upside engines are available in "normal" trims in the competition. Especially in Toyotas case, no need to go to TRD line (which is similar to N-Line idea). And yea...you could get the premium 2.0T within the "normal" old Sonata line.

No so with this new Hyundai. Gotta go with to be released sometime N-Line if you want more power. Disappointing...I think most real world drivers would prefer the 2.5T if they wanted more power without stepping up to N-Line...though maybe that would fix the somewhat disappointing suspension tuning of the "normal" models.

Should be available in normal trims for this family sedan segment IMO. Has worked well for the competition.
Also..when an average consumer is shopping, the "premium" 1.6T engine shows less HP than "base" engine. I'd say the average consumer might not dig deeper and look at torque graphs to decipher why the 1.6T is the "premium" engine.

So yes, might be perplexing for the average consumer and not fan boys like you.

Well you are just deliberately tying yourself up in ropey knots of semantics. #notjudging - whatever floats your boat.    TRD line is a red herring as there is no additional power with that trim, so your claim of "no need to go to TRD line" makes no sense in the context of a discussion of uplevel power.

Bottom line is the Sonata will offer comparable power and trim levels to the competition - all of whom use slightly different combinations of trim and option packages with their various engines as they progress from base to top of the line.  And OMFG some now offer and others will offer AWD - how perplexing - how will the poor consumer ever manage!    Your attempt to characterize the Sonata as uniquely baffling in this context is really just so much hot air.

[dougjp]

It's at least a bit perplexing. You have the 180hp 1.6T and the 190hp 2.5. Which one is the more than adequate engine?

Oh wait, neither....that would be the rumoured 2.5T. In the N-Line.

Lol you are easily perplexed.  The 2.5t N Line isn't rumored - it's confirmed - they even gave journalists the opportunity to drive a pre-production version.  I mean, it helps your argument if the car is merely a web rumor, and the two sub-100 hp engines are all the engines there will ever be in the Sonata.  But that would be pure fantasy. 

Geez, you act like a car company releasing an entry level motor, then a more powerful one a bit later is something baffling and perplexing.  It's actually quite common.  In my Sonata the uplevel 2.0t followed the release of the base 2.5 by almost a year.

So to answer your question - both the n/a 2.5 and the 1.6t are "adequate", while the 2.5t is "ample" and in the same ballpark as the Accord 2.0T and Camry V6.

Not. Very.  Baffling.

The upside engines are available in "normal" trims in the competition. Especially in Toyotas case, no need to go to TRD line (which is similar to N-Line idea). And yea...you could get the premium 2.0T within the "normal" old Sonata line.

No so with this new Hyundai. Gotta go with to be released sometime N-Line if you want more power. Disappointing...I think most real world drivers would prefer the 2.5T if they wanted more power without stepping up to N-Line...though maybe that would fix the somewhat disappointing suspension tuning of the "normal" models.

Should be available in normal trims for this family sedan segment IMO. Has worked well for the competition.
Also..when an average consumer is shopping, the "premium" 1.6T engine shows less HP than "base" engine. I'd say the average consumer might not dig deeper and look at torque graphs to decipher why the 1.6T is the "premium" engine.

So yes, might be perplexing for the average consumer and not fan boys like you.

Well you are just deliberately tying yourself up in ropey knots of semantics. #notjudging - whatever floats your boat.    TRD line is a red herring as there is no additional power with that trim, so your claim of "no need to go to TRD line" makes no sense in the context of a discussion of uplevel power.

Bottom line is the Sonata will offer comparable power and trim levels to the competition - all of whom use slightly different combinations of trim and option packages with their various engines as they progress from base to top of the line.  And OMFG some now offer and others will offer AWD - how perplexing - how will the poor consumer ever manage!    Your attempt to characterize the Sonata as uniquely baffling in this context is really just so much hot air.

Unbelievable. You missed what the discussion was! Refusal to listen will do that I guess. 

[Jaeger]

We don't have full deets on the N Line yet, but I'm pretty sure I read that there will be no LSD, unfortunately. I don't think any of these big mainstream midsize FWD sedans are really trying to be sports sedans.

But we'll see what it brings to the table.

[Jaeger]

It's at least a bit perplexing. You have the 180hp 1.6T and the 190hp 2.5. Which one is the more than adequate engine?

Oh wait, neither....that would be the rumoured 2.5T. In the N-Line.

Lol you are easily perplexed.  The 2.5t N Line isn't rumored - it's confirmed - they even gave journalists the opportunity to drive a pre-production version.  I mean, it helps your argument if the car is merely a web rumor, and the two sub-100 hp engines are all the engines there will ever be in the Sonata.  But that would be pure fantasy. 

Geez, you act like a car company releasing an entry level motor, then a more powerful one a bit later is something baffling and perplexing.  It's actually quite common.  In my Sonata the uplevel 2.0t followed the release of the base 2.5 by almost a year.

So to answer your question - both the n/a 2.5 and the 1.6t are "adequate", while the 2.5t is "ample" and in the same ballpark as the Accord 2.0T and Camry V6.

Not. Very.  Baffling.

The upside engines are available in "normal" trims in the competition. Especially in Toyotas case, no need to go to TRD line (which is similar to N-Line idea). And yea...you could get the premium 2.0T within the "normal" old Sonata line.

No so with this new Hyundai. Gotta go with to be released sometime N-Line if you want more power. Disappointing...I think most real world drivers would prefer the 2.5T if they wanted more power without stepping up to N-Line...though maybe that would fix the somewhat disappointing suspension tuning of the "normal" models.

Should be available in normal trims for this family sedan segment IMO. Has worked well for the competition.
Also..when an average consumer is shopping, the "premium" 1.6T engine shows less HP than "base" engine. I'd say the average consumer might not dig deeper and look at torque graphs to decipher why the 1.6T is the "premium" engine.

So yes, might be perplexing for the average consumer and not fan boys like you.

Well you are just deliberately tying yourself up in ropey knots of semantics. #notjudging - whatever floats your boat.    TRD line is a red herring as there is no additional power with that trim, so your claim of "no need to go to TRD line" makes no sense in the context of a discussion of uplevel power.

Bottom line is the Sonata will offer comparable power and trim levels to the competition - all of whom use slightly different combinations of trim and option packages with their various engines as they progress from base to top of the line.  And OMFG some now offer and others will offer AWD - how perplexing - how will the poor consumer ever manage!    Your attempt to characterize the Sonata as uniquely baffling in this context is really just so much hot air.

Unbelievable. You missed what the discussion was! Refusal to listen will do that I guess. 

Lols !  Well you are evidently still baffled. 

[rrocket]

Your attempt to characterize the Sonata as uniquely baffling in this context is really just so much hot air.

If you think so. I certainly don't think this is like the competition. No need to go to the motorsport division offering just to get a competitive top trim engine.

Hyundai themselves have characterized the N-Line as something different and there was some fanfare when they finally said the N-Line was coming to NA.

Reminds a bit of Mazda' s old strategy. They used to offer their cars with weaker engines vs. competition then say if you want more power wait for the Mazdaspeed offering.

[Jaeger]

Your attempt to characterize the Sonata as uniquely baffling in this context is really just so much hot air.

If you think so. I certainly don't think this is like the competition. No need to go to the motorsport division offering just to get a competitive top trim engine.

Hyundai themselves have characterized the N-Line as something different and there was some fanfare when they finally said the N-Line was coming to NA.

Reminds a bit of Mazda' s old strategy. They used to offer their cars with weaker engines vs. competition then say if you want more power wait for the Mazdaspeed offering.

Yes yes, the Sonata is terribly baffling and horribly disappointing. This has passed the point of absurdity. Buyers will have several engines and trim levels to choose from. Nobody is forced into any choice. It is hardly unique to Hyundai that the top engine comes with higher trim.

I'm more interested in the merits of the vehicle that I am in your endless bafflement at the engine offerings. Early reviews are quite positive overall, with absolutely none of the head-scratching puzzlement that you are both imagining and obsessing over. I'll leave you to it.

[rrocket]

It is hardly unique to Hyundai that the top engine comes with higher trim.

Well I don't think it's just a "trim level" as Hyundai is trying to position the N-Line as something other than that.

So yes, I think this is a bit different than Toyota, Honda, etc

YMMV.