Topic: A Modest (but serious) Proposal re Mandatory Winter Tires

[Mike-NB]

Seriously folks, I’m not suggesting this as a sarcastic modest proposal.  (Like my modest proposal to bring back capital punishment for the worst automotive crime known to humankind, namely driving slow in the left lane.)

Here in NB, as I’m sure happens in every other province (and the debate may still rage in Quebec though they’ve made the smart move to mandatory winter tires) the topic of mandatory winter tires comes up every year.  Every year it comes up a debate rages in online comment sections in local papers, radio stations and the Communist Broadcasting Collective.  (Apologies for letting my biases show…) The comments are firmly split into two camps and there appears to be a wide chasm between the two.  I am firmly, solidly and irrevocably in the pro-winter tire camp.  The anti-winter tire camp, at least here in NB, tends to split 25/75 along two distinct arguments. 

1)   The 25% of the opposition are opposed because it becomes a tax on the poor.  (Keep in mind that NB is arguably the most socialist of all the provinces in Canada.  I’m not being flippant, it’s just a fact. If you don’t believe me we can have an argument off-line.) The argument has some merit in a province where the majority of the population is still rural with no other means of transportation available.  I admit that I’m not in the lower economic strata so I have no real perspective here, though I was once in that strata when I was working two jobs to save for school and then putting myself through school.  But then, as now, when I select a car I look at the total ownership costs and that includes winter tires.  I guarantee to you that before I ordered my MKZ I looked at winter tire options.  This was in August.  It would have been a deal-breaker if winter tires were prohibitively expensive.  There are many reasons why I won’t own a truck as a daily driver and one of those is the cost of winter tires.  A friend had a boss with a GM truck on 21” or 22” rims and winter tires set him back $4K. 

2)   The remaining 75% of the anti-winter tire crowd can be grouped into “I don’t need them because I don’t go far in the winter.”  This is, admittedly, a compelling argument.  Personally, I only wear proper winter footwear when I’m out snowblowing the driveway.  Other than that I wear the same shoes that I’ll wear in August.  I make out just fine so that argument should carry through to tires, right?  But I think there are some major differences.  I can exercise care and I can assume the risks (recognizing that a serious fall with injuries will be a cost to the medical system).  But if I head out on the roads without proper tires for conditions I’m not just a danger to myself but to everyone else on the road.  If I need to stop quickly in my car in slick conditions I am confident in my tires’ ability to do so BUT I have no idea if the person behind me has bald all-seasons and will plow into the back of me.

For me, the argument is simple – does it get below 7 degrees Celsius where you live?  If yes, then you need winter tires.  I don’t give a flying f@#k if all you do is drive to work.  It’s science, not magic.

Anyway… to my modest proposal.

What if winter tires were mandatory for driving on roads where the posted limit was above 80km/h?  If you want to trust your bald all-season tires you’re allowed to do so but you are limited to roads with posted speeds below 80km/h.  Sure, there would be enforcement issues, I get that.  But I think that if my idea were adopted it would at least mitigate the risks of damage and injury.  More accidents caused by low traction would be relegated to lower-speed roads.

Any thoughts?  And yes, I am being serious here…

[tpl]

The Poverty Industry  says that everything is a tax on the poor...unless they disapprove of it.  It is quite difficult to convince them that the poor don't really matter.

As for your other point.   I suggest that winter tires are more important in the city with school crossings, stop lights and so  on

[blur911]

I really couldn't see living in NB and not wanting/needing winter tires.

I don't see much difference in need on roads posted above 80kph, the people with bald-no-seasons will still be white-knuckling it along at 50kph causing a slow-moving  hazard.
They'll also be rear-ending you because you put on winter tires and can stop at stop lights, all below 80kph

[OliverD]

A friend had a boss with a GM truck on 21” or 22” rims and winter tires set him back $4K.

That's just stupid. Could have easily picked up a set of 17-18" wheels on Kijiji for winter.

And I agree with you, they should be mandatory.

[sailor723]

The other objection you hear is "I'm a good driver/I don't need them/I've been driving without them for XX years with no problem" 

I agree with them being mandatory but i think enforcement would be much more practical if they were required everywhere.

[OliverD]

The best argument against getting winter tires is when people say, "well I've never been stuck." 

[random006]

I am from Quebec and have been a winter tire proponent for over 20 years.  Like the others above, I don't see that a useful distinction can be made based on speed of travel.  Not only are there many instances of low speed risks, such as the aforementioned school and intersection issues, there is the fact that it's hard not to travel on higher speed roads in rural areas.

I have travelled through Atlantic Canada and rural Quebec and Ontario many times.  No matter where I've been, it seemed that I always ended up on an 80+ kph road at some point during that day's driving.

Therefore, I would say that your modest proposal would not actually solve much.  Instead, is there a way to subsidize winter tire purchases?  Not that I would like to see another drain on public coffers but it is a conversation that should be had.  BTW, this conversation seems familiar.  Have we not looked at this before in the Tire section?

[Great_Big_Abyss]

There's a guy at my work who is of the opinion that winter tires are actually more dangerous than all seasons, because 'anybody who puts winter tires on their vehicles just ends up driving like a hooligan, thinking they have more traction'. 

I walked away after he said that.  I just couldn't get into it with him.  Some people, you're just never going to change their minds.

[aquadorhj]

The best argument against getting winter tires is when people say, "well I've never been stuck." 

this morning, WE were stuck behind this A-hole in dodge Ram 1500 with all season TRYING to get unstuck for 20 seconds after lights changed.   so i guess it doesn't count as him being stuck, but cars behind him were unnecessarily stuck and inconvenienced for a while.

[Gurgie]

That's a tough one for people who can't afford another set of tires and wheels, and don't have the knowledge or know-how to find a good used set somewhere to get them thru a couple of winters. Plus I'm not sure what the used tire market is like out east. Here in Ottawa I can find used winter's on Kijiji relatively easy!! Hell, the JGC is on it's 3rd winter on tires I bought used on Kijiji (they only had 1000kms on them) and the 323i is on it's 2nd. But I have the time, knowledge and means to find them, someone may not have any of that & can't afford a new set from the dealership.

Also, here in Ottawa we have several garages that sell used tires? Is that something you guys have out there? And would that be a feasible solution for someone with a lower income? Maybe they get an interest free loan to buy them?

[dkaz]

There are more and more compelling all weather tires coming on the market and while they will not perform anywhere near as good as the best winter tires, they will perform at least as well as the cheap winter tires. I do sympathize with those who are not as well off so maybe income based rebates on all weather or winter tires would help.

For the rest of the people who bought way too much vehicle without budgetting in tires then complaining they can't afford winter tires, well too bad. That's a big reason I ended up going for the 02 Sequoia instead of the 09, because I knew I would have to get a set of winter tires and my budget would be stretched too thin with the 09. That and the 5 hour drive to Grande Prairie.

this morning, WE were stuck behind this A-hole in dodge Ram 1500 with all season TRYING to get unstuck for 20 seconds after lights changed.   so i guess it doesn't count as him being stuck, but cars behind him were unnecessarily stuck and inconvenienced for a while.

My Sequoia was struggling to accelerate at all from a stop up a small but icy hill, cars were behind me, and I have Bridgestone Blizzaks, but I was in 2WD. It's a bit of extra mental work to preemptively turn on 4WD when I stop at an icy intersection.

[tenpenny]

If you live in NB and don't use winter tires, you should not be allowed out of the  house on your own.

[sailor723]

If you live in NB and don't use winter tires, you should not be allowed out of the  house on your own.

Succinct, to the point and correct. 

[valuator]

If you live in NB and don't use winter tires, you should not be allowed out of the  house on your own.

Succinct, to the point and correct. 

Hear, hear.

Moncton turned into a skating rink overnight, and watching the all-season tire drivers was hilarious, although you stop laughing when they are headed right for you with a look of terror in their eyes...

[quadzilla]

I always like talking to the people who say they can't afford winter tires although they have every possible tv cable package available. Ya right.

[johngenx]

I always like talking to the people who say they can't afford winter tires although they have every possible tv cable package available. Ya right.

The reality is that most people don't view maintaining their car properly, and that includes tires, as any sort of priority.

I see quite late model cars in parking lots with bald tires all the time.

[dougjp]

We are told that when its Plus 6C out, we should have winter tires on as all season tires aren't meant for that. I have "tested" lots of all season tires at +1-6C and found with a tiny bit of warmup they work as well as snows. Same even goes for "R" rated track tires or summer performance, however they require LOTS of warmup. 

So, as an early morning commute in most parts of the country sees temperatures of Plus 6C or lower for perhaps 10 months of the year, or certainly 8-9 months, why bother with all season tires, or summer tires, at all? Just run snow tires all year long!

Lets see, nice soft rubber (wrong kind, I know), no buying extra wheels and tires, no paying for or having to find/create storage areas for the off season tires and wheels, no excruciating line ups for tire changeovers or in the case of doing it yourself, physiotherapy payments for the back afterwords, AND the tires wear out fast ensuring replacement before the ALWAYS ignored "best before date" for ageing tire rubber arrives? And nobody can arrest you for driving in winter with all season tires on a dry day when its +1 to 6C...... if you see where I'm going with this   

[ArticSteve]

Should be mandatory in NB.  If $$$ is a blocker them run winters all year. 

In the GTA it would never fly.  In my area if one skids off the road and gets stuck, no damage, OPP still lays a charge so the big stick is the insurance premium blow back .  I rarely see passenger vehicles with out snows.  However, most 1/2 users, which is sizeable, usually try and run on the heavier tread tires that usually come on 1/2 tons. 

[rrocket]

Should be mandatory in NB.  If $$$ is a blocker them run winters all year. 

In the GTA it would never fly.  In my area if one skids off the road and gets stuck, no damage, OPP still lays a charge so the big stick is the insurance premium blow back .  I rarely see passenger vehicles with out snows.  However, most 1/2 users, which is sizeable, usually try and run on the heavier tread tires that usually come on 1/2 tons.

Do tell what that charge would be.

You're driving under the limit and due to inclement weather you slide off the road (and maybe not hit anything but snow bank) and get stuck...no damage. And with no laws against using all seasons in winter.

What's the charge?

[rrocket]

Lots of ultra low end winter tires are run year round in Quebec from what I've observed. Still better than all seasons I suppose.
For NB, in my opinion winters should be mandatory.

I saw a report that ultra cheap winters weren't much better, if at all, than good all seasons.

The problem was these cheapo companies buy old winter tire molds, so they have the tread pattern. But they don't use optimal winter rubber compound.

I think in several years, certain all seasons will be true all seasons that will work really, really well year round.