Topic: First Drive: 2019 Chevrolet Blazer

[CSH]

I live out West, so not 100% sure, are we boycotting GM due to the Oshawa thing?

I can get on board if it means Canadian unity/solidarity.   

https://www.saveoshawagm.ca/

Voted... the sad part is they took our money (bailout) and are now running away


In any case nothing in their lineup (Chev, Buick, GMC, Cad) impresses me anyway (except maybe Camaro, Corvette or a CTS-V)

[Gurgie]

Me too, but the JGC can get a bunch more expensive.

Yeah, you'd have to get into a Limited with the 3.6 that starts at $48k pretty well equipped and a much better AWD system.

I'm hearing the 2021 JGC will be worth the wait, looks like it'll be revealed at the LA auto show in December of this year

[OliverD]

The JGC is also much more capable.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I can't get behind the notion that we should somehow boycott GM for making a prudent business decision. We never gave them free money we gave them a loan and they paid it back. They technically don't owe us anything and if staying was so important the government could have written some conditions into the loan so again that's on us.

Really?  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/loans-canada-account-finance-auto-sector-bailout-2009-gm-chrysler-1.4722529

Also, GM's acceptance of subsidies from Canadian Governments (including provincial and municipal) goes way back.
https://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/gm-canada-a-100-year-history-of-benefitting-from-taxpayer-dollars/

A bunch of boycott threats from people that were never going to buy GM anyway.

That may be so.  Although I will argue on my behalf there was a chance I would have one day been interested in one of their products.  Heck, the 2nd vehicle I ever bought was a Pontiac Sunfire.  But, years of poor decisions, now compounded by their decision to close Oshawa, now means that I have closed the book on GM forever, and will never again consider one of their cars.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Everyone hates the unions , but love all the benefits they got because of them

[Fobroader]

Everyone hates the unions , but love all the benefits they got because of them

Yes, a century ago. Not a lot of children working in steel melting plants anymore.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I can't get behind the notion that we should somehow boycott GM for making a prudent business decision. We never gave them free money we gave them a loan and they paid it back. They technically don't owe us anything and if staying was so important the government could have written some conditions into the loan so again that's on us.

Really?  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/loans-canada-account-finance-auto-sector-bailout-2009-gm-chrysler-1.4722529

Also, GM's acceptance of subsidies from Canadian Governments (including provincial and municipal) goes way back.
https://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/gm-canada-a-100-year-history-of-benefitting-from-taxpayer-dollars/

so?

I understand why you want to defend GM.  You like GM vehicles, buy GM vehicles, and feel a need to defend them and their vehicles, as it legitimizes your purchasing decisions.  There's nothing wrong with that.  We are almost all guilty of it (unless we are completely divested in the product we bought - then it doesn't matter - however that is certainly not the people on this forum...we are all very invested in our car-buying-decisions).  It is called Choice-Supportive Bias.  You downplay the faults of the car you bought, while at the same time amplifying its pros.  I've noted the same effect in this forum r.e. winter tires.  Everyone who has Blizzaks swears that they have better snow/ice traction than even the best summer tire on a dry, hot day.

It's why No-San used to vehemently deny Subaru's head-gasket issues.
Or why some FGC owners refuse to acknowledge the litany of electrical problems they may face.
Or why RRocket won't stop talking about Lexus.
Or why Ford Owners are the quietest people, because there is just nothing good to say about a Ford.   

[G.Bombay]

i get that it sucks those people are losing their jobs, and that we always want to try and support local when possible...however, the Oshawa plant closing really shouldn't be much surprise...that plant has been on the edge for over a decade and it's only been running at about 35% capacity for the past 5+ years...there have been numerous times where there was serious talk about closing that plant, dating back the early 2000s...i'm actually surprised it took them this long to pull the plug.

The issue is that they are increasing production in Mexico while decreasing production in Canada and the US.  It's BS that GM doesn't have vehicles they can allocate to Oshawa, they're just allocating production to Mexico to save a buck.

They are in business to make money, not lose it.

Meh, Toyota and Honda make money on their vehicles produced in Canada. But they also seem to understand that it's just good business to produce cars in the same country where people are buying them.

Funny how that works & they're both non-unionized shops 

Sure that's part of it but I I think the bigger reason is they're actually building cars people want to buy.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Everyone hates the unions , but love all the benefits they got because of them

Yes, a century ago. Not a lot of children working in steel melting plants anymore.

All non union shops I know , pay less,  minimal pension , and minimal health benefits
Also in the US the Right to Work sites have higher death rates

[Gurgie]

I've gotta buddy that works at Honda in the plant, he was making only a fraction less than another buddy at Ford in Oakville. Has just as good benefits & pension. Think his vacation time was better. Main difference was he wasn't worked as hard, he had more time to put the parts on at his station on the assembly line & enjoys going to work. Buddy at Ford not so much.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[sailor723]

I'm a sort of "meh" on this car. OTOH, I suspect I've already owned my first and last GM vehicle.

[dirtyjeffer]

Also in the US the Right to Work sites have higher death rates

i'm trying to see the correlation there, but can't...not sure where you got that from...i'm wondering if you know what a Right to Work state is.

[dirtyjeffer]

i get that it sucks those people are losing their jobs, and that we always want to try and support local when possible...however, the Oshawa plant closing really shouldn't be much surprise...that plant has been on the edge for over a decade and it's only been running at about 35% capacity for the past 5+ years...there have been numerous times where there was serious talk about closing that plant, dating back the early 2000s...i'm actually surprised it took them this long to pull the plug.

The issue is that they are increasing production in Mexico while decreasing production in Canada and the US.  It's BS that GM doesn't have vehicles they can allocate to Oshawa, they're just allocating production to Mexico to save a buck.

i know WHAT the issue is...my point is, i don't understand the fury over it...there have been rumours of this plant closing since the early 2000s...the plant in Mexico is a modern flexible assembly plant that is 10 years old...the Oshawa plant is 111 years old...higher wages, higher electricity costs, threats of union strikes every four years when the contracts come up, and all the other associated higher costs of doing business here...i'm not saying i agree with it, but i certainly understand the business case for it...having an aging plant run at 35% capacity for well over a decade makes no sense.

[rrocket]

The larger issue is...the gov't and by extension the tax payers SAVED GM here. We didn't just do them a favor...we SAVED them.

And I don't think it's too much to ask that when you SAVE someone/something that they stick around.

And yes, I agree. The unions are corrupt. I'm not sure if most people understand how corrupt...with my close proximity to Detroit, the stories in the news are near constant. FFS...the UAW owns a $30 million country club near Detroit if that gives you any clue of the corruption....plus the ongoing FCA/UAW corruption scandal...

Unifor/CAW has been terrible at saving jobs....their main focus has been saving wages. I always thought if an economist ran the union instead of a line worker things would be different...and better.

[Gurgie]

Unifor/CAW has been terrible at saving jobs....their main focus has been saving wages. I always thought if an economist ran the union instead of a line worker things would be different...and better.

Yeah, better to be paid $30/hr for the next year, rather than $28/hr for the next 4yrs 

[dirtyjeffer]

The larger issue is...the gov't and by extension the tax payers SAVED GM here. We didn't just do them a favor...we SAVED them.

And I don't think it's too much to ask that when you SAVE someone/something that they stick around.

i don't disagree with your thinking...however, there were no such clauses in that agreement ("stay open for X years or there is a penalty of Y dollars").

i wonder if it would have simply been better to just let them die.

[rrocket]

The larger issue is...the gov't and by extension the tax payers SAVED GM here. We didn't just do them a favor...we SAVED them.

And I don't think it's too much to ask that when you SAVE someone/something that they stick around.

i don't disagree with your thinking...however, there were no such clauses in that agreement ("stay open for X years or there is a penalty of Y dollars").

i wonder if it would have simply been better to just let them die.

There were several of us here who said just that....because we knew with no clauses ultimately GM would hose Ontario....and we were right.

[dirtyjeffer]

The larger issue is...the gov't and by extension the tax payers SAVED GM here. We didn't just do them a favor...we SAVED them.

And I don't think it's too much to ask that when you SAVE someone/something that they stick around.

i don't disagree with your thinking...however, there were no such clauses in that agreement ("stay open for X years or there is a penalty of Y dollars").

i wonder if it would have simply been better to just let them die.

There were several of us here who said just that....because we knew with no clauses ultimately GM would hose Ontario....and we were right.

then much of the blame should go to the government for that.

in the SE USA where millions are given in incentives to get new plants ($110 Million in the case of the Hyundai plant, for example), there are stipulations tied to it in terms of severe penalties...the reality is, if they are going to build a new plant, it's likely they will be there for a while, but they certainly ensure they get an ROI on their investment (which they do, as that plant generates $4.5 Billion in local economic activity annually)...our governments are stupid, sadly.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

We should not be in the business of subsidizing industry. We should be slapping jurisdictions which do with countervailing duties to completely offset subsidies.

Free trade with the US, Europe makes sense. Neo-liberal trade policy went too far too fast with free trade and reduced tariffs with third world countries. The backlash is what elected Trump. His solutions are terrible, but he did tap into the disgruntlement felt by many.   

Loans/grants in a time of crisis were always going to be the least worse option.

 

[EV-Light]

The larger issue is...the gov't and by extension the tax payers SAVED GM here. We didn't just do them a favor...we SAVED them.

And I don't think it's too much to ask that when you SAVE someone/something that they stick around.

i don't disagree with your thinking...however, there were no such clauses in that agreement ("stay open for X years or there is a penalty of Y dollars").

i wonder if it would have simply been better to just let them die.

There were several of us here who said just that....because we knew with no clauses ultimately GM would hose Ontario....and we were right.

No politician would allow that to happen, since it would be a PR nightmare - can you imagine? The unions would flip and make sure he or she would not be re-elected.

Having said that, I 1000% agree with you....this is a company, companies fail....we should have let them die and perhaps something else would be born out of it.


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