Topic: Thoughts on Statistics versus Reality (Speed limits)

[mlin32]

So interesting stats were published today in France in regards to the road mortality rate in 2018.

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2019/01/28/la-mortalite-routiere-en-recul-historique-mais-les-80-km-h-toujours-sur-la-sellette_5415610_3224.html

In sum, 2018 saw the lowest number of road fatalities on French roads ever, 3 259 to be precise. The government attributes this in large due to the reduction in July of the national speed limit 90 --> 80km/h on two-lane roads w/o a fixed barrier.

This is....really slow in practice, and has remained hugely unpopular (me included, I creep up to 90 still when I can) and attracted the ire of many a rural resident. Naysayers also say that the low morality figures are just a continuation of previous trends and can't be attributed to the reduction alone.

Given the ruckus brought up by the gilet jaunes and continued grumbling, the ministry has mentioned keeping the option open to repeal. But the statistics speak for themselves. Cause-and-effect ? Or just correlation ? Thoughts ?

[ChaosphereIX]

well of course road fatalities will be low if you force everyone to creep along at a snail's pace

[Scaerio]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

[rrocket]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Pffft....all the old milkshakes out my way drive it at 60.

[ChaosphereIX]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Pffft....all the old milkshakes out my way drive it at 60.

Same. Go 60 or 70 EVERYWHERE regardless of what the sign says. Beyond frustrating on long single lane roads out of my suburb

[mlin32]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Really ? Most of my time was in Québec but most roads without a centre divider were 90 in my experience.

[mlin32]

There was a 15mn debate on the evening news about the pros and cons in France. Quite informative to hear both sides argue, although undoubtedly I don't think very many of us would want to be in the shoes of the lady defending the lower 80 limit 

In related news, ESPAGNE has also lowered its speed limit on rural roads w/o a centre divider from 100 --> 90 km/h effective today (29/01), following the lead of France.

[quadzilla]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Really ? Most of my time was in Québec but most roads without a centre divider were 90 in my experience.

Really? He says Canada and you challenge with a few roads in Quebec. Really.

[OliverD]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Really ? Most of my time was in Québec but most roads without a centre divider were 90 in my experience.

Generally speaking in Canada I believe the speed limit on two lane roads outside of urban areas is 80 km/h unless otherwise posted.

[JohnnyMac]

I tend to think a reduction of 10km per hour wouldn't have as big of an affect as the increase in how safe our vehicles are nowadays.  Sure driving slower will have some affect on road accidents but I would think the addition of safety features, like stability/traction control, have a larger impact on fatalities.

[OliverD]

I tend to think a reduction of 10km per hour wouldn't have as big of an affect as the increase in how safe our vehicles are nowadays.  Sure driving slower will have some affect on road accidents but I would think the addition of safety features, like stability/traction control, have a larger impact on fatalities.

I think the stats around accident increases and decreases when they changed the speed limit of I295 near Portland ME is interesting: https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/11/crashes-fall-on-i-295-after-speed-limit-decrease/

[draghon]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Really ? Most of my time was in Québec but most roads without a centre divider were 90 in my experience.

Generally speaking in Canada I believe the speed limit on two lane roads outside of urban areas is 80 km/h unless otherwise posted.

90km/h in Manitoba, but is very flat and the roads are very straight here. (In general)

[jamie1]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Ontario is not all of Canada. Secondary roads are not 80km/h in Alberta, BC, Sask, or MB. Most are 90 or 100km/h.

[dkaz]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Ontario is not all of Canada. Secondary roads are not 80km/h in Alberta, BC, Sask, or MB. Most are 90 or 100km/h.

But Alberta's secondary highways are BC's main highways. 

[johngenx]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Ontario is not all of Canada. Secondary roads are not 80km/h in Alberta, BC, Sask, or MB. Most are 90 or 100km/h.

But Alberta's secondary highways are BC's main highways. 

Jaysus that's the truth.

[dkaz]

Secondary roads in Canada are usually 80, and most folks tend to drive at 90...

Ontario is not all of Canada. Secondary roads are not 80km/h in Alberta, BC, Sask, or MB. Most are 90 or 100km/h.

But Alberta's secondary highways are BC's main highways. 

Jaysus that's the truth.

Haha. To be fair, the terrain doesn't help. They're going to spend half a billion dollars upgrading a 4 km stretch of this:



But then again I think how City of Edmonton estimates it'll cost $3 billion to upgrade a 5km section of Terwillegar Dr to a freeway with terrain as easy as it gets (mind you, including new interchanges at Whitemud and Anthony Henday) and suddenly half a billion to carve a wider highway into the side of a rock isn't such a bad deal.

[johngenx]

But then again I think how City of Edmonton estimates it'll cost $3 billion to upgrade a 5km section of Terwillegar Dr to a freeway with terrain as easy as it gets (mind you, including new interchanges at Whitemud and Anthony Henday) and suddenly half a billion to carve a wider highway into the side of a rock isn't such a bad deal.

Road construction costs in BC are ridiculously low compared to Alberta.  The overpasses on the Henday were $250M-$500M a pop, and crap like that.  That stretch of the TCH between Field and Golden only cost $250M for all that twinning over the Kicking Horse River.  In Alberta?  Holy hell I can't imagine what the cost would have been.  Billions and billions for sure.

[rrocket]

But then again I think how City of Edmonton estimates it'll cost $3 billion to upgrade a 5km section of Terwillegar Dr to a freeway with terrain as easy as it gets (mind you, including new interchanges at Whitemud and Anthony Henday) and suddenly half a billion to carve a wider highway into the side of a rock isn't such a bad deal.

Road construction costs in BC are ridiculously low compared to Alberta.  The overpasses on the Henday were $250M-$500M a pop, and crap like that.  That stretch of the TCH between Field and Golden only cost $250M for all that twinning over the Kicking Horse River.  In Alberta?  Holy hell I can't imagine what the cost would have been.  Billions and billions for sure.

Why?

[johngenx]

Oh, and the Henday for some reason requires resurfacing every six years.  I couldn't understand why the stretch on the SW end of the city was being redone, and neither could anyone else.  It hit the press that the road design requires a redo every six years, which threw a huge wrench in traffic for the summer.

Then we have the bridge fiascoes where they used crap steel and the construction time went YEARS overdue.  It took longer to upgrade the tiny bridge on 102Ave downtown over Groat Road than it took to build the Confederation Bridge to PEI.  The Groat Bridge is slated to take how many years?  OMG.  The original bridge was done in a fraction of the time.

[johngenx]

But then again I think how City of Edmonton estimates it'll cost $3 billion to upgrade a 5km section of Terwillegar Dr to a freeway with terrain as easy as it gets (mind you, including new interchanges at Whitemud and Anthony Henday) and suddenly half a billion to carve a wider highway into the side of a rock isn't such a bad deal.

Road construction costs in BC are ridiculously low compared to Alberta.  The overpasses on the Henday were $250M-$500M a pop, and crap like that.  That stretch of the TCH between Field and Golden only cost $250M for all that twinning over the Kicking Horse River.  In Alberta?  Holy hell I can't imagine what the cost would have been.  Billions and billions for sure.

Why?

Good question.