Topic: Need some advice on my next car. Help!!!

[Mike-NB]

I’m a regular reader and occasional poster to these forums and it’s obvious that many people here have a deep knowledge of the Canadian automotive landscape. I’m looking for some advice regarding my next vehicle.

I’m currently driving a 2017 Lincoln MKZ with the 3.0L twin turbo V6. Of all the vehicles have driven over the past few decades I put more thought into this one than just about any other one. The deciding factor came down to the 400hp engine. Most of my vehicles over the past many years have been more performance oriented. Sometimes that performance is in the traditional sense and sometimes that performance has been in high efficiency as in a slew of VW TDIs. The MKZ is an absolutely phenomenal car. When I am an old man in my rocking chair I’ll likely look back on it as being the nicest car I’ve ever had. But there’s a bit of a problem… I quickly got bored with it. I’m not slinging mud at the car because it has a particular mission and it hits that target well. With 400hp and the suspension, steering and shift points tuned for the best performance it really can be an engaging car to drive. But at its heart it’s still really a luxury car. I’ve learned that I’m better suited to something that is closer to the performance end of the spectrum rather than the luxury end.

And I should also add that there appears to be some truth to the old saying that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I’m not adapting well to driving a car with an automatic transmission. Not having a clutch just seems unnatural.

So, later in 2019 I’ll be in the market for a new car. (I leased the MKZ. Since my long history of buying cars indicates that I trade in every three years I thought I’d try a lease. It didn’t really work out well. I paid for 60,000 km and will likely hit the three year mark with only 35K on it.) It absolutely has to be a car in the traditional sense. I have no interest in a CUV, SUV or truck. I tend to prefer cars at the smaller end of the spectrum as well. So what I’m looking for is something relatively small, with decent performance numbers and a manual transmission. I have a couple of front runners but I’m wondering if I’m leaving anything out.

Golf R: For the longest while my first choice was the Golf R. It seemed to fit the bill better than anything else on the market. I didn’t consider any of the natural competitors to the R though. The (now deceased) Focus RS and the Civic Type-R have way too many visual add-ons for my taste. (I should add that by the time I make this final decision I will be 53 years old. Yes, that’s old compared to a lot of people on this forum but I’m not ready to ride off into the sunset in my Toyota Corolla just yet.)

GTI: What had been my second choice was the VW GTI. It had been my second choice mostly because I figured if I opted for the GTI I’d likely regret not going for the R instead. But my current thinking puts GTI in the top spot now simply because it is more of a “Goldilocks” choice. This is especially true with the new Rabbit package that combines some of the technical bits from the R into the GTI. The Goldilocks idea comes mostly from me knowing that it would be extraordinarily rare for me to use the full performance potential of the R. I’d likely never use the R at more than 60% of its capacity which likely means that driving the GTI that hard would only be using it at 75% of its capacity.

Accord Sport: The third choice is really an odd one when you contrast it with the Golf R and the GTI. It’s the Honda Accord. Honda has a Sport model available with the 2.0L turbo engine that has 252hp and decent torque numbers as well. And, surprisingly, it’s available with a six speed manual transmission. The Accord would clearly be the sensible choice, especially considering my age, but even with decent power and torque numbers and a manual transmission I’m concerned I might get bored with it too quickly.

A distant consideration was the new Genesis G70. The biggest reason that it’s simply a distant possibility is that I’m not even sure the Genesis brand is available anywhere near where I live. But another serious consideration is that a comparison of the specs that matter to me between the G70 and the Accord Sport put the two fairly close in terms of features that I want but the Accord comes in at $10K less.

Another distant possibility is the Mazda6 with the new turbocharged engine. The obvious downside to this choice is that I would have to forego my requirement for a manual transmission. I’m not sure that I’m willing to give that up.

Floating on the periphery are the Golf wagon and the Alltrack.  They likely won’t make the cut because of lower performance numbers but that could be offset by the availability of a manual transmission.

Is there anything else on the market that I should be considering? I haven’t considered products from Acura, BMW, Lexus or Mercedes simply because my expectation is that I would wind up in the same position that I’m in with my Lincoln. Even if any of those cars were available with a manual transmission they are skewed more towards the luxury end of the spectrum rather than the performance end.

Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated!

(I realize this is already a long post but if anyone has some related information even an opinion on this I’d appreciate hearing it as well. The current Golf model is Mk7.5. From what I’ve read German production of the Mk7.5 is slated to end this coming June. Production of the Mk8 will start shortly afterwards. My understanding is that the current car, the Mk7.5, will remain in production in Mexico for at least another year. The problem is that the golf R is built in Germany. Doesn’t it stand to reason that if Mk7.5 production ceases in June then there will be no Golf Rs for the 2020 model year? Using the same logic, shouldn’t this mean that Mk7.5 GTI production should just carry on and that there would be a 2020 GTI available? This is important because since my release doesn’t end until December I’ll either have to be looking for a leftover 2019 or holding out for a 2020.

Any thoughts?)

[Ex-airbalancer]

What is the buyout on the Lincoln?

[Mike-NB]

I thought about including some of that information but since the post was already reaching novella proportions I opted to exclude it.

The buyout in December 2019 is $26K. 

An option that I’m considering is finding someone who may be interested in taking over the lease.  That would actually be a great deal for someone since I put a substantial amount down on the car and the payments are probably less than some people pay for a Sonata.  But I may have unwittingly backed myself into a corner on that too.  I have a close friend who wants to buy out the lease at the end of it.  We’ve had some preliminary discussions about him taking over the lease early and he’s aware that I’m subsidizing the monthly payments to about $300 per month.  That’s an incentive.  I’d even pay the costs to transfer the lease to his name.

I suspect that if my friend decides to not go through with this that I could find someone to take over the lease pretty easily.  The monthly payments are relatively low thanks to the down-payment and at 25 months into the lease I don’t even have 30K kms on the.  And it comes with two sets of tires.  And a maintenance plan.

Yes, the smart move would be for me to buy it out but while I tend to be prudent about most things my car is one thing where I’m driven almost entirely by emotion.  Hence no chance of a Corolla in my garage.

[draghon]

What about the direct competitors with thr GTI? Civic SI is less garish than the type R but still performance oriented. Veloster N might also be of interest.

And because you also mentioned a Mazda, the answer is always Miata!

[Mike-NB]

^ All good suggestions.  This is likely just my own thought but the Civic SI and Veloster N both seem a bit too over-the-top, especially compared to the Golf R.  I've always been drawn to cars that don't show off.  Prior to deciding on the MKZ my plan was to get a Fusion Sport.  I liked the fact that Ford did a "Sport" trim the right way - it didn't look a lot different from humbler Fusions but it had better performance.  That seems to be the opposite way most manufacturers do 'Sport' trims.  Those are a few added spoilers, so red stitching on the seats and a unique badge.  But absolutely nothing differentiates it performance-wise from the lower trims.  Not to offend anyone, but I get a chuckle every time I see a Corolla S. 

A Miata has always been on the periphery and the only thing holding me back is that I'd need two cars and I think my wife would divorce me if I did that.  But someday it may happen...

I also considered a Mustang GT but figured that it is too impractical as a year-round daily driver even with winter tires.

But while the Civic SI is out of the running I am digging a bit more on the Veloster N.   

[dougjp]

Thanks for providing all the details. Its interesting how similiar our "dilemmas" are regarding what balance of luxury and performance is just right. Despite my age being much higher than you, the 'struggle' doesn't go away. 

From what you said, you are eliminating all the lower snack bracket cars (like what I currently have, although an si is in the same range). So my purpose in writing is not to point out cars, its just about that topic of what different kind of car actually does suit you. I made a fairly big change in type last time around, from luxury to performance (but on a lesser scale vs. what you have talked about so far).   

I'd just say, take more time getting used to how much of a change each prospective car actually is. I'm talking about ride on your average deteriorating pavement, NVH (non-engine noise, vibrations and harshness), and a test drive out in heavy rain to check that noise in the wheel wells and on the roof. A lot of performance cars will sacrifice sound deadening for weight gains; in the floor, trunk area, headliner, doors, under the hood etc. From an MKZ, its likely to be a big change. Perhaps it would be a plus to you, 'anti-boredom'?, or perhaps it would bother you. I'm still on the fence about that, but I was bothered enough to make my car much better through adding sound deadening in the trunk and swapping out the OEM tires right away.     

[JohnnyMac]

Here's a question...if your Lincoln had a manual do you think you'd have a different opinion of her and maybe keep her?

I think the Accord is a decent choice, but I tend to think it has a more luxury feeling than some of the others you listed.

I think you have to cross the Mazda 6 off the list as you can't get a manual and that seems to be a big priority for you.

Obviously the two VWs make a a lot of sense and I know the Golf R put a smile on your face when you drove mine.  The GTI is also very good but as you stated they will be replacing it with a new one in a year or two.  I'm not sure the Golf R will be stopping production as you stated only because it's pulled from the eGolf line and that vehicle will likely continue on being produced for the 2020 model year.

I get why you wouldn't like the styling of the Civic Type R but the normal Civic Si in sedan form is fairly subdued.  It has enough performance to be fun, is very fuel efficient, and is one of the cheaper options (meaning you could buy it in your 3 year timeframe, trade it in, and the resale is strong).

The Hyundai Veloster N might not be as garish as the Type R but it's definitely more boy racer than a GTI.  I've read it's a very good vehicle indeed, but if you don't like the styling then that's hard to change.

It's too bad the Suabru WRX isn't on the newer Imprezza platform because that might have been a decent choice.  It's not as boy racer when you delete the rear spoiler.

If you could convince your wife with the idea of having two vehicles (which is a struggle for me as well), you could get yourself something frugal and somewhat fun to drive (like a Corolla Hatchback, Mazda 3, VW Golf, etc), save a bit of money on payments and fuel and in a few years get a Mustang GT.  That's one of the options I'm really considering.

Lastly, the closest Genesis dealer will be in Halifax, so a longer drive from you indeed. The new BMW 3 series is supposed to be good but I don't know if you can get it with a manual.

[OliverD]

No manual in the new 3-series unfortunately.

[rrocket]

The GS from Lexus, particularly in F-Sport trim is far, far more engaging and fun to drive than the Lincoln. You're confused with Lexus of old.

The IS is similarly engaging.

I'd also check out Infiniti.

[OliverD]

The GS from Lexus, particularly in F-Sport trim is far, far more engaging and fun to drive than the Lincoln. You're confused with Lexus of old.

The IS is similarly engaging.

I'd also check out Infiniti.

None of those offer manuals though.

[rrocket]

The GS from Lexus, particularly in F-Sport trim is far, far more engaging and fun to drive than the Lincoln. You're confused with Lexus of old.

The IS is similarly engaging.

I'd also check out Infiniti.

None of those offer manuals though.

Right...missed that part.

Although a GS-F manual or not is awesome! LOL

Ditto the Stinger, G70, Infinitis, etc and a few other sport sedans...

Despite autos, there are a ton of cars way more engaging than what he's driving..his problem isn't lack of a manual IMO..it's that he didn't buy a sport sedan.

[Mike-NB]

Despite autos, there are a ton of cars way more engaging than what he's driving..his problem isn't lack of a manual IMO..it's that he didn't buy a sport sedan.

That probably sums up my 'problem' better than I did in my original post.  I've programmed the car that when I put it in 'S' all the driver-selected variables are dialed up to the top of the performance range.  It can be pretty fun.  The throttle response is really impressive.  And no matter how I slice it, close to 400HP / 400 lb./ft. can be engaging.  But even with these changes the MKZ was never intended to be a sports sedan.

BTW - based on your earlier reply and then JohnnyMac weighing in with support I took a deeper dive into the Civic Si.  I was wrong to have glanced at it and brushed it off.  After a closer look and watching some reviews on YouTube I think it's something that I really should consider when the time comes.

[Mike-NB]

Thanks for providing all the details. Its interesting how similiar our "dilemmas" are regarding what balance of luxury and performance is just right. Despite my age being much higher than you, the 'struggle' doesn't go away. 

From what you said, you are eliminating all the lower snack bracket cars (like what I currently have, although an si is in the same range). So my purpose in writing is not to point out cars, its just about that topic of what different kind of car actually does suit you. I made a fairly big change in type last time around, from luxury to performance (but on a lesser scale vs. what you have talked about so far).   

I'd just say, take more time getting used to how much of a change each prospective car actually is. I'm talking about ride on your average deteriorating pavement, NVH (non-engine noise, vibrations and harshness), and a test drive out in heavy rain to check that noise in the wheel wells and on the roof. A lot of performance cars will sacrifice sound deadening for weight gains; in the floor, trunk area, headliner, doors, under the hood etc. From an MKZ, its likely to be a big change. Perhaps it would be a plus to you, 'anti-boredom'?, or perhaps it would bother you. I'm still on the fence about that, but I was bothered enough to make my car much better through adding sound deadening in the trunk and swapping out the OEM tires right away.   

All great points.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.

One thing I should mention is that I'd really rather not exclude anything and I'm a big fan of Hyundai/Kia.  I think the new N Line might be worth a look.  I watched a review of the Civic Si last night (Alex on Autos, from Ontario) and at the end he mentioned some worthy competitors.  One he mentioned was the Elantra Sport.  But it seems that no such model exists now.  I'll have to do a bit more digging but I have a recollection that Hyundai is planning an N-Line version of the Elantra which will be a bit more mild than the Veloster N-Line. 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The only answer here is to buy a used C63 AMG.

See this thread for reference, and why you should buy one.  https://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=102833.0

[Mike-NB]

Here's a question...if your Lincoln had a manual do you think you'd have a different opinion of her and maybe keep her?

I think the Accord is a decent choice, but I tend to think it has a more luxury feeling than some of the others you listed.

Obviously the two VWs make a a lot of sense and I know the Golf R put a smile on your face when you drove mine.  The GTI is also very good but as you stated they will be replacing it with a new one in a year or two.  I'm not sure the Golf R will be stopping production as you stated only because it's pulled from the eGolf line and that vehicle will likely continue on being produced for the 2020 model year.

I get why you wouldn't like the styling of the Civic Type R but the normal Civic Si in sedan form is fairly subdued.  It has enough performance to be fun, is very fuel efficient, and is one of the cheaper options (meaning you could buy it in your 3 year timeframe, trade it in, and the resale is strong).

The Hyundai Veloster N might not be as garish as the Type R but it's definitely more boy racer than a GTI.  I've read it's a very good vehicle indeed, but if you don't like the styling then that's hard to change.

It's too bad the Suabru WRX isn't on the newer Imprezza platform because that might have been a decent choice.  It's not as boy racer when you delete the rear spoiler.

Hi John.  I was hoping you'd weigh in as one of the resident experts on the Golf R.  And yes, I most certainly did have a wide grin after driving your R.  Thanks for that.

To modify your question a bit, if Ford offered a 400HP sport sedan with a manual transmission would that have been the better choice for me?  Absolutely.  It may be that even the Fusion Sport would have been the better choice.  I put a lot of thought into that car but I guess I didn't take into account that I wasn't ready to give up on finding something a bit more raw... or at least less isolating.

Based on a yours and another recommendation I took a deeper dive into the Honda website and then watched some YouTube reviews.  I think the Si deserves a spot on my shopping list.  It's styling is still a bit over-the-top, especially compared to the R, but if I spec it out in black that tends to cause the the black trim pieces to blend in better.  And the spoiler isn't too bad either. 

Until last night I hadn't considered a WRX as a possibility either.  The lower-trim, non-STI models, are relatively subdued.  As you note, they are getting along in age but by the time I'm ready to swap cars the Golf Mk7.5 will be quite dated too and many parts of the world will already have the Mk8.  That doesn't bother me about the Golf though.  The Golf is a great car and it's styling over the years has been evolutionary.  I really like the styling of the current Golf and I think I'd rather drive an R with the current engine technology rather than wait and get into a Mk8 with the mild hybrid drivetrain that seems likely.

The primary reason that the Accord is on my list is that it is available with a manual transmission and has decent power and torque numbers.  But I admit that the only reason I'd consider it is for the manual transmission and that probably isn't enough. 

I hope you're right about the Golf R remaining available even after the Mk8 starts production in June.  If that's the case it takes away any concerns I have about timing.  My worry was that if I arrived in October or so and was about to pull the trigger that the R wouldn't even be an option unless I could find one left over on a lot.  (Oddly, SJ VW has two Rs in on spec.  The salesman I've dealt with there since 1998 told me that's a first.  They have a red one with the DSG and more recently they brought in a manual with one of the $3K paint options - Bordeaux Red Pearl.  It's a beautiful car.  Given the market for the R is quite small, that car could still be available later in the year.)  But if there will be a 2020 available that means I no longer need to worry about timing.  I was going so far as thinking I could order an R at the last minute knowing that delivery would take three or four months and then I'd have a couple of months where I'd have the MKZ and the R. 

(As an off-topic aside, having no timing issues on my next car will also allow me to solve another problem.  I ordered my MKZ in early August 2016.  The dealer figured it would be delivered in a month.  I got it just before Christmas.  I'd much rather take possession of a new car in the spring rather than when I get it the winter tires have to go on immediately and it has to endure a harsh Maritime winter.  When the Lincoln goes back in mid-December this year I could just take a monthly rental on something for a few months letting me hit the 'reset' button on delivery times.)

Thanks for responding.  I'm glad I posted this thread because some options have been mentioned that I hadn't considered.  Which was the entire point, I guess.

[Mike-NB]

The only answer here is to buy a used C63 AMG.

See this thread for reference, and why you should buy one.  https://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=102833.0

That's a beautiful car!  But nowhere in my posts have I ever said that I'm a masochist! 

[Ex-airbalancer]

Phone your dealer to see if you can get the lease extended by 6 months

[OliverD]

I totally understand wanting something that's a bit more raw. While the GTI that I had was objectively the better car, my Clubman JCW is a lot more fun and has way more personality.

[dougjp]

Thanks for providing all the details. Its interesting how similiar our "dilemmas" are regarding what balance of luxury and performance is just right. Despite my age being much higher than you, the 'struggle' doesn't go away. 

From what you said, you are eliminating all the lower snack bracket cars (like what I currently have, although an si is in the same range). So my purpose in writing is not to point out cars, its just about that topic of what different kind of car actually does suit you. I made a fairly big change in type last time around, from luxury to performance (but on a lesser scale vs. what you have talked about so far).   

I'd just say, take more time getting used to how much of a change each prospective car actually is. I'm talking about ride on your average deteriorating pavement, NVH (non-engine noise, vibrations and harshness), and a test drive out in heavy rain to check that noise in the wheel wells and on the roof. A lot of performance cars will sacrifice sound deadening for weight gains; in the floor, trunk area, headliner, doors, under the hood etc. From an MKZ, its likely to be a big change. Perhaps it would be a plus to you, 'anti-boredom'?, or perhaps it would bother you. I'm still on the fence about that, but I was bothered enough to make my car much better through adding sound deadening in the trunk and swapping out the OEM tires right away.   

All great points.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.

One thing I should mention is that I'd really rather not exclude anything and I'm a big fan of Hyundai/Kia.  I think the new N Line might be worth a look.  I watched a review of the Civic Si last night (Alex on Autos, from Ontario) and at the end he mentioned some worthy competitors.  One he mentioned was the Elantra Sport.  But it seems that no such model exists now.  I'll have to do a bit more digging but I have a recollection that Hyundai is planning an N-Line version of the Elantra which will be a bit more mild than the Veloster N-Line.

I own an Elantra Sport and discarded the si when I shopped, the main reason being the looks inside and especially the outside. A bunch of other reasons too (eg; redundant controls, feature content, warranty, price) but there are lots of reviews out there as I'm sure you are aware.

Yes the Elantra Sport exists for 2017/2018 but the 2019 model just appeared on Hyundai USA's site, so I don't know the timing of the first arrivals here.

Hyundai already has the "N-Line" Elantra GT hatch that just started arriving at dealerships here, not to be confused/compared with the Veloster N which is a solely performance focused model, with a 2.0 turbo vs. the 1.6T that is already an optional engine in a normal Veloster. Hyundai seems to be copying Audi/BMW in the "intentional naming similarity", like say Audi S-Line which is mostly appearance vs. Audi S which is an entirely different engine etc. Or BMW M. However Hyundai is going too far in having the exact same "N" meaning different things! The Elantra GT "N" replaces the 2018 Elantra GT Sport with no change to engine (1.6T) or transmissions. However there are IMO nice appearance improvements, and also various changes to springs, bars, steering, engine/tranny mounts.       

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I feel like going from a 400hp uber-sedan like a Lincoln MKZ to a compact economy car (even if it has a 'Sport' or 'SI' after the name) like a Civic or an Elantra will just leave you, well, disappointed.

I understand that you're looking for something a little more raw and connected than the big Lincoln, but at the same time, you bought the car because you obviously appreciate big power, and at least some sense of luxury and solidity.  Those two are things that something that a Civic SI or an Elantra Sport just won't offer you.  They are economy cars, and will feel like economy cars.  I just feel like you'll be left wanting.

The Golf R (as has been mentioned by yourself and others) would fit the bill, and has the advantage of feeling a lot more upscale than something like a Honda or a Hyundai.

Since you seem to be a fan of leasing, have you considered leasing a BMW 3-series?  The BMW 340i is available with a stick both in RWD and AWD guise.  320hp is certainly nothing the sneeze at, and there is something about BMW's being the ultimate driving machine?