Topic: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra

[OliverD]

I think back then there was a lot less platform sharing between models, and stuff like the Celica still sold well enough that it didn't really matter all that much. There were variants of the Carina that were basically Celica sedans though (obviously never sold here).

[Jaeger]

I also think so many people who never bought any gen of Supra or would even buy a new gen are hung up on one amazing gen of the Supra thinking it was some amazing car with a huge history for Toyota.

Agreed.

Based on what?

I for one am not the least bit hung up on Supra history, though like Sir O, I REALLY liked the 3rd gen back in the day.  But I have ZERO emotional investment in the model or in the manufacturer for that matter.  Yet this new Zupr4 still disappoints me on many levels.  Am I not permitted to hold that opinion absent being emotionally hung up on a glorified history of the model?  Does one need to be a mercurial fanboy to hold the view that an all new rendition of a model much loved by enthusiasts should actually, y'know, be a Toyota?

Based on the general internet chatter that compares this Supra to the fourth gen one, as if it alone defines the history of the Supra.

Oh - I thought you were talking about this thread.  I have yet to get around to reading every bit of web chatter on the Supra, and seriously doubt that I ever will.

That said, it kind of makes more than a little bit of sense to me that the new model is most frequently compared with its most recent rendition, as opposed to one a few generations prior.

[Seafoam]

 

As far as competition, it depends on whether a person values prestige or performance more. Things like the M3 and the MB C-whatever-it-was might be tempting if a person needs a badge.

If they had kept the Supra on the same platform as the Celica, the costs would have been more broadly distributed.
Japan Inc had been on a roll up until that point, so that particular path might not have been as clear at the time.
[/quote]

The Celica and Supra had diverged after the second gen Supra, with the Celica moving to FWD in 1985.
[/quote]

Actually model year 1986.    Almost bought one. It was between the celica ,gti and prelude. The prelude won.

[OliverD]

Actually model year 1986.    Almost bought one. It was between the celica ,gti and prelude. The prelude won.

And when did that 1986 model go on sale?  I specified 1985 because model years don't mean nearly as much outside of North America.

[rrocket]

It all about cost vs expected sales.....these are going to sell in very low numbers.  Made no financial sense to develop a wholly new powertrain for this car.  Chassis was no problem IMO...could have likely used some sort of variation of the brand new TNGA architecture possibly.  And I think the only other car they could have used an I6 in was an IS (which would be cool IMO). 

And yea, for Supra fan boys (me included) it's Toyota I6 or "no care".


Also...I LOL@Roger.  Remember when we were asking why Hyundai didn't (but could have...and should have) put the manual in the G70 V6TT..and Roger came up with every excuse under the sun on why they didn't and defended them in every possible way?      But now because we're talking about Toyota...different attitude on why a manufacturer won't.   

It's why I like you so much....able to sling the bullsh*t on both sides of the fence.  You ever think of a career as a lawyer?       

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Also...I LOL@Roger.  Remember when we were asking why Hyundai didn't (but could have...and should have) put the manual in the G70 V6TT..and Roger came up with every excuse under the sun on why they didn't and defended them in every possible way?      But now because we're talking about Toyota...different attitude on why a manufacturer won't.   

LOL.  I remember that.  I got sh!t on hard in that thread.

[rrocket]

Also...I LOL@Roger.  Remember when we were asking why Hyundai didn't (but could have...and should have) put the manual in the G70 V6TT..and Roger came up with every excuse under the sun on why they didn't and defended them in every possible way?      But now because we're talking about Toyota...different attitude on why a manufacturer won't.   

LOL.  I remember that.  I got sh!t on hard in that thread.

IKR?

What a reversal of attitude now, eh?     Oh wait...he drives a Genesis.   

[Jaeger]

Also...I LOL@Roger.  Remember when we were asking why Hyundai didn't (but could have...and should have) put the manual in the G70 V6TT..and Roger came up with every excuse under the sun on why they didn't and defended them in every possible way?      But now because we're talking about Toyota...different attitude on why a manufacturer won't.   

LOL.  I remember that.  I got sh!t on hard in that thread.

Well if Genesis had re-skinned a BMW 3 series and called it a G70, that would be the equivalent to what Toyota has done. So LOL hard at Ron for another spectacular false equivalence. 

[rrocket]

Well if Genesis had re-skinned a BMW 3 series and called it a G70, that would be the equivalent to what Toyota has done. So LOL hard at Ron for another spectacular false equivalence.

Well in your mind only.  As always.   

It was about why Genesis didn't put a stick with the V6 TT.  And I remember all of your excuses...and falling on the sword to defend Hyundai.  Surely Hyundai, like Toyota had the financial means to do this, didn't they?  Especially so when they already had a manual used with a V6 in a different application?  Why geez...it would have been nothing at all...and could be shared with other models (Kia?) just like Toyota coming up with a completely new powertrain.  Easy-peasy!   Financial reasons be dmaned! 

Stop already.....

[Jaeger]

Lol you stop already (never happen, I know). Genesis not offering a manual with the V6 in the G70 is not the equivalent of Toyota mailing it in and just re-skinning a BMW and calling it a Supra. The equivalent would be Genesis re-skinning a BMW 3 and calling it the brand new G70. But that total lameness didn't happen. With Genesis, I mean. 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Hey, to add fuel to the fire, the Z4/Supra isn't available with a manual, either.  And it's a proper sports car.

[rrocket]

Lol you stop already (never happen, I know). Genesis not offering a manual with the V6 in the G70 is not the equivalent of Toyot mailing it it and just re-skinning a BMW and calling it a Supra. The equivalent would be Genesis re-skinning a BMW 3 and calling it the brand new G70. But that total lameness didn't happen. With Genesis, I mean. 

They mailed it in in a different manner by not offering a stick when it would have been easy-peasy with a car already well into development...totally their own car...with a powertrain already available.

Now that I think of it...it might be worse.  They had no constraints not to do so at all, right? (in your world, I mean).   

[rrocket]

Hey, to add fuel to the fire, the Z4/Supra isn't available with a manual, either.  And it's a proper sports car.

Welcome to the world of what happens when 1% of people buy manuals....

[Jaeger]

Maybe they could have called it the G Series. 

Wonder how many people have already grabbed the ZUPR4 license plate. 

[rrocket]

Maybe they could have called it the G Series. 

Wonder how many people have already grabbed the ZUPR4 license plate. 

IIRC, I THINK I saw that years ago because everyone and their sister already had "Supra" in some manner or another.

[Jaeger]

Hey, to add fuel to the fire, the Z4/Supra isn't available with a manual, either.  And it's a proper sports car.

Ron will be along presently to point out how totally lame that is of Toyota ... erm..... I mean BMW. 

[quadzilla]

And it's a proper sports car.

Has this been confirmed yet? Who has driven it?

[Jaeger]

Will the Toyota badge alone make this thing more reliable? Bet Ron says yes.

[rrocket]

Will the Toyots badge alone make this thing more reliable? Bet Ron says yes.

No, I've said the opposite, actually.

And is one of the reasons I suspect Toyota de-tuned the I6 to 335HP vs BMWs 380HP.....didn't meet their reliability/longevity criteria during testing.

And if it's like every other BMW I6, it's going to need main bearings guaranteed at some point.

Fortunately, they'll sell so few it shouldn't reflect too bad on the brands overall reliability.   

But from a Supra lover perspective...will you be able to pull 600+ HP with just bolt ons from the BMW platform and have years of trouble free use on even high mileage cars/severe use cars?  Ummmmm.....NO!

[aquadorhj]

Will the Toyots badge alone make this thing more reliable? Bet Ron says yes.

No, I've said the opposite, actually.

And is one of the reasons I suspect Toyota de-tuned the I6 to 335HP vs BMWs 380HP.....didn't meet their reliability/longevity criteria during testing.

And if it's like every other BMW I6, it's going to need main bearings guaranteed at some point.

Fortunately, they'll sell so few it shouldn't reflect too bad on the brands overall reliability.   

But from a Supra lover perspective...will you be able to pull 600+ HP with just bolt ons from the BMW platform and have years of trouble free use on even high mileage cars/severe use cars?  Ummmmm.....NO!

i often thought that BMW should really make the motor rebuild a part of their regular maintenance.

things fail so regularly, and i mean on schedule, that might as well make it into a scheduled maintenance.  of course out of warranty.

Toyota now has perfect opportunity to make it a thing!!!
bring the Engine out service a thing for plebs again, not just for ferraris and lambos!!!