Topic: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra

[quadzilla]

Toyota (Lexus) makes a 2 door sports car with a V8 just shy of 500 hp. It goes for $90-100K if you want one.

[OliverD]

Toyota (Lexus) makes a 2 door sports car with a V8 just shy of 500 hp. It goes for $90-100K if you want one.

Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but I'd call that a GT car, not a sports car.

[quadzilla]

Toyota (Lexus) makes a 2 door sports car with a V8 just shy of 500 hp. It goes for $90-100K if you want one.

Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but I'd call that a GT car, not a sports car.

True but for anybody that isn't going to track their car there is still plenty of sports car in it and I'm sure it can  hold its own on the track.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Toyota (Lexus) makes a 2 door sports car with a V8 just shy of 500 hp. It goes for $90-100K if you want one.

Which is great. Shame about the face.

But what about a decontented one with a Toyota badge for $45k-$50k?

[tortoise]

that's what i always wondered...that engine is already legendary, and likely wouldn't take much to use today.

I bet it would be difficult to make that engine meet the current fuel economy and emissions requirements.

[quadzilla]

But what about a decontented one with a Toyota badge for $45k-$50k?

Will never happen. Even this one which they shared costs with BMW wont' come close to that.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Pony cars from Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge seem to be able to.

Of course Toyota ceded that market back in the early 1990s.

[quadzilla]

that's what i always wondered...that engine is already legendary, and likely wouldn't take much to use today.

I bet it would be difficult to make that engine meet the current fuel economy and emissions requirements.

Not that I care if they ever make another straight 6 I think they could do it. I wonder how efficient the new MB I6 is?

I also think so many people who never bought any gen of Supra or would even buy a new gen are hung up on one amazing gen of the Supra thinking it was some amazing car with a huge history for Toyota.

[quadzilla]

Pony cars from Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge seem to be able to.

Of course Toyota ceded that market back in the early 1990s.

There is no way Toyota could sell the numbers any of those companies do with the Supra even if it was 100% amazing.

I'm guessing here but wasn't there more Mustangs sold than the Supra, RX7, and 300Z combined back in the day.

[OliverD]

I also think so many people who never bought any gen of Supra or would even buy a new gen are hung up on one amazing gen of the Supra thinking it was some amazing car with a huge history for Toyota.

Agreed.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Replace the meh 86 with a new four cylinder Celica with better interior room. Offer the Supra on the same platform with a modular 6 cylinder version of the Celica's four cylinder, with a couple of snails and magna-ride. Boom. Book it. Done.

This isn't rocket surgery. 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I also think so many people who never bought any gen of Supra or would even buy a new gen are hung up on one amazing gen of the Supra thinking it was some amazing car with a huge history for Toyota.

Agreed.

I liked the third gen:



The fourth gen lost the plot, even though the performance numbers were excellent for its time.

[Jaeger]

I also think so many people who never bought any gen of Supra or would even buy a new gen are hung up on one amazing gen of the Supra thinking it was some amazing car with a huge history for Toyota.

Agreed.

Based on what?

I for one am not the least bit hung up on Supra history, though like Sir O, I REALLY liked the 3rd gen back in the day.  But I have ZERO emotional investment in the model or in the manufacturer for that matter.  Yet this new Zupr4 still disappoints me on many levels.  Am I not permitted to hold that opinion absent being emotionally hung up on a glorified history of the model?  Does one need to be a mercurial fanboy to hold the view that an all new rendition of a model much loved by enthusiasts should actually, y'know, be a Toyota?

[OliverD]

I also think so many people who never bought any gen of Supra or would even buy a new gen are hung up on one amazing gen of the Supra thinking it was some amazing car with a huge history for Toyota.

Agreed.

Based on what?

I for one am not the least bit hung up on Supra history, though like Sir O, I REALLY liked the 3rd gen back in the day.  But I have ZERO emotional investment in the model or in the manufacturer for that matter.  Yet this new Zupr4 still disappoints me on many levels.  Am I not permitted to hold that opinion absent being emotionally hung up on a glorified history of the model?  Does one need to be a mercurial fanboy to hold the view that an all new rendition of a model much loved by enthusiasts should actually, y'know, be a Toyota?

Based on the general internet chatter that compares this Supra to the fourth gen one, as if it alone defines the history of the Supra.

[OliverD]

The fourth gen lost the plot, even though the performance numbers were excellent for its time.

I'm curious what you mean by that. It followed the 300ZX and RX-7 upmarket in both price and performance.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The first three generations were more or less sophisticated versions of pony cars. The prices and performance weren't too far off what was coming out of Detroit.

The fourth generation went way upmarket, and only a few loyalists could follow, and non-loyalists would be cross shopping with Euro brands. As you've said, the change in the exchange rate may have pushed the price even higher than what they intended. In any even, it didn't really pan out. 

[OliverD]

The first three generations were more or less sophisticated versions of pony cars. The prices and performance weren't too far off what was coming out of Detroit.

The fourth generation went way upmarket, and only a few loyalists could follow, and non-loyalists would be cross shopping with Euro brands. As you've said, the change in the exchange rate may have pushed the price even higher than what they intended. In any even, it didn't really pan out.

Did the fourth gen Supra really compete with anything coming out of Europe though? 911s were significantly more expensive. The 968 was probably comparable in price, but it sold in tiny numbers too.

That generation Supra came out shortly after a significant recession too. Sports car sales had collapsed around that time. Between that and exchange rate issues, cheaper sports cars on bespoke platforms probably weren't really feasible for the most part.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You're right. Timing for expensive Japanese sports cars was terrible.

As far as competition, it depends on whether a person values prestige or performance more. Things like the M3 and the MB C-whatever-it-was might be tempting if a person needs a badge.

If they had kept the Supra on the same platform as the Celica, the costs would have been more broadly distributed.
Japan Inc had been on a roll up until that point, so that particular path might not have been as clear at the time.   

[OliverD]

You're right. Timing for expensive Japanese sports cars was terrible.

As far as competition, it depends on whether a person values prestige or performance more. Things like the M3 and the MB C-whatever-it-was might be tempting if a person needs a badge.

If they had kept the Supra on the same platform as the Celica, the costs would have been more broadly distributed.
Japan Inc had been on a roll up until that point, so that particular path might not have been as clear at the time.

The Celica and Supra had diverged after the second gen Supra, with the Celica moving to FWD in 1985.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You're right. Timing for expensive Japanese sports cars was terrible.

As far as competition, it depends on whether a person values prestige or performance more. Things like the M3 and the MB C-whatever-it-was might be tempting if a person needs a badge.

If they had kept the Supra on the same platform as the Celica, the costs would have been more broadly distributed.
Japan Inc had been on a roll up until that point, so that particular path might not have been as clear at the time.

The Celica and Supra had diverged after the second gen Supra, with the Celica moving to FWD in 1985.

Yeah. I was going with the idea of keeping them on the same platform to keep costs under control.

I can imagine how pricey is was to develop both the Celica All-Trac and the Supra Turbo instead of having a common platform for both.