Author Topic: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra  (Read 30777 times)

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #80 on: January 28, 2019, 06:05:31 pm »

if they can build that technological marvel that was the LFA engine

But don't forget the LFA cost $500,000.

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And they lost money on it....
Which is probably why the had no interest in developing a new straight six just for one car. I know you and I get but why is it so hard to understand?

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Offline Fobroader

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #81 on: January 28, 2019, 06:06:10 pm »

if they can build that technological marvel that was the LFA engine

But don't forget the LFA cost $500,000.

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I'm just saying that it wasn't beyond Toyota to build an engine that would easily suit this car without going to a manufacturer that builds lease only specials.
Lighten up Francis.....

Offline rrocket

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #82 on: January 28, 2019, 06:07:59 pm »


I'm just saying that it wasn't beyond Toyota to build an engine that would easily suit this car without going to a manufacturer that builds lease only specials.

Of course not.

But Toyota is in the business of making money.  And they'd have lost money if the re-did an I-6.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline KD

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #83 on: January 28, 2019, 06:09:40 pm »
The engineers aren’t running the show anymore like they did in the 90s.  Accountants rule nowadays!  :popo:

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #84 on: January 28, 2019, 06:10:04 pm »

if they can build that technological marvel that was the LFA engine

But don't forget the LFA cost $500,000.

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I'm just saying that it wasn't beyond Toyota to build an engine that would easily suit this car without going to a manufacturer that builds lease only specials.
This isn't a question of can they do it because everybody including Toyota knows it is possible. It just doesn't make any business sense and they like making money.

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Offline quadzilla

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #85 on: January 28, 2019, 06:11:05 pm »
Haha. Three of us reply with the same answer.

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Offline Fobroader

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #86 on: January 28, 2019, 06:11:26 pm »


I'm just saying that it wasn't beyond Toyota to build an engine that would easily suit this car without going to a manufacturer that builds lease only specials.

Of course not.

But Toyota is in the business of making money.  And they'd have lost money if the re-did an I-6.

Cummins makes a much better I6, should have gone with them  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Arthur Dent

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #87 on: January 28, 2019, 06:13:23 pm »
I just don't understand why they got so hung up on having an inline six. The Skyline transitioned to a V6, the Boxster to a four cylinder, etc. I think the Supra would have been fine with a V8, even a turbo V6. A small amount of hand wringing from some fans boys (who most aren't buying anyway) and it would be just fine.

Too bad they didn't share chassis development costs with Mazda. New RX-7 with a rotary, new Supra with a V8.  8)

Offline rrocket

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2019, 06:21:20 pm »
I just don't understand why they got so hung up on having an inline six. The Skyline transitioned to a V6, the Boxster to a four cylinder, etc. I think the Supra would have been fine with a V8, even a turbo V6. A small amount of hand wringing from some fans boys (who most aren't buying anyway) and it would be just fine.

Too bad they didn't share chassis development costs with Mazda. New RX-7 with a rotary, new Supra with a V8.  8)

No room in the engine bay would be my guess......narrow to fit the I6.....

Apparently, next IS350 is going to have the TT V6 from the LS500...so the rumour mill says.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #89 on: January 28, 2019, 06:25:38 pm »
Apparently, next IS350 is going to have the TT V6 from the LS500...so the rumour mill says.

That would be awesome!

Offline rrocket

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #90 on: January 28, 2019, 06:29:56 pm »
Apparently, next IS350 is going to have the TT V6 from the LS500...so the rumour mill says.

That would be awesome!

It's going to have a base 400HP in "F Sport" guise...not a full fledged IS-F.....apparently.

There's a new 2.4L Turbo being developed too....~315HP.

And a 2.5L Dynamic Force (being used in the UX250h) that could be used too.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:34:49 pm by rrocket »

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #91 on: January 28, 2019, 06:41:38 pm »
Apparently, next IS350 is going to have the TT V6 from the LS500...so the rumour mill says.

That would be awesome!

It's going to have a base 400HP in "F Sport" guise...not a full fledged IS-F.....apparently.

There's a new 2.4L Turbo being developed too....~315HP.

And a 2.5L Dynamic Force (being used in the UX250h) that could be used too.

All of that sounds like great news to me. When is the next IS (full redesign) suppose to hit?

Offline rrocket

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #92 on: January 28, 2019, 06:43:58 pm »
Apparently, next IS350 is going to have the TT V6 from the LS500...so the rumour mill says.

That would be awesome!

It's going to have a base 400HP in "F Sport" guise...not a full fledged IS-F.....apparently.

There's a new 2.4L Turbo being developed too....~315HP.

And a 2.5L Dynamic Force (being used in the UX250h) that could be used too.

All of that sounds like great news to me. When is the next IS (full redesign) suppose to hit?

I heard 2020...but I'm guessing 2021-2022 for the hotter models?

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #93 on: January 28, 2019, 07:44:38 pm »
The idea that Toyota, with all their resources, couldn't possibly conceivably produce their own engine for this car without it being utterly cost-prohibitive makes me shake my head.  So much I get dizzy.

Was it easier to do it this way?  Absolutely.  Was it the only realistic way to make it happen?  I aint buyin' that one.
Wokeism is nothing more than the recognition and opposition of bigotry in all its forms.  Bigots are predictably triggered.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2019, 08:39:06 pm »
The idea that Toyota, with all their resources, couldn't possibly conceivably produce their own engine for this car without it being utterly cost-prohibitive makes me shake my head.  So much I get dizzy.

Was it easier to do it this way?  Absolutely.  Was it the only realistic way to make it happen?  I aint buyin' that one.

Well it's not your area of expertise, so I understand why you don't get it.  But an engine program (particularly a high performance engine like this), from scratch, is anywhere from $300 million to $1 billion US.  That includes the design (of course), all the testing, emission testing certification (which sucks), re-tooling for existing line...if it's a flex line.  If not a flex line, you might need a brand new manufacturing plant for that engine.  Now this isn't a huge deal if it's going to be spread out over several car models or become the corporate engine.  But for a single car?  Non starter.  To give you an idea of manufacturing costs, it cost Toyota $500 million for the V8 found in the LS series...and that was 25 years ago.  GM...who I think we can all agree are experts in V8 manufacturing...spent $1 BILLION PLUS just updating/modernizing their already formidable and existing V8 program.  $1 billion...on a program that already existed.

So yea...it costs lots and lots of cheddar.

You'd probably not believe me if I told you how much it cost for a single mold for a headlight or tailight.  I once worked on a lense for a navigation buoy...the kind you see flashing in a lake or river?  $1 million......20 years ago.

Offline OliverD

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2019, 08:43:22 pm »
The idea that Toyota, with all their resources, couldn't possibly conceivably produce their own engine for this car without it being utterly cost-prohibitive makes me shake my head.  So much I get dizzy.

Was it easier to do it this way?  Absolutely.  Was it the only realistic way to make it happen?  I aint buyin' that one.

it's not just the engine though, it's the entire platform. I'm guessing that neither Toyota nor BMW could justify a bespoke platform for a single sports car, in a market where demand has sharply dropped for those kinds of cars (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15359725/bmw-sales-exec-sports-cars-may-be-a-dying-breed/). And if you're going to use a BMW platform there probably isn't much point in Toyota developing an entirely new engine to fit that platform.

Offline Scaerio

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #96 on: January 29, 2019, 12:49:53 am »
The idea that Toyota, with all their resources, couldn't possibly conceivably produce their own engine for this car without it being utterly cost-prohibitive makes me shake my head.  So much I get dizzy.

Was it easier to do it this way?  Absolutely.  Was it the only realistic way to make it happen?  I aint buyin' that one.

And they could easily have dropped versions of that I6 into future versions of other Lexus and Toyota models.
I'd rather be car-poor than house-poor...

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2019, 07:15:21 am »
The idea that Toyota, with all their resources, couldn't possibly conceivably produce their own engine for this car without it being utterly cost-prohibitive makes me shake my head.  So much I get dizzy.

Was it easier to do it this way?  Absolutely.  Was it the only realistic way to make it happen?  I aint buyin' that one.

And they could easily have dropped versions of that I6 into future versions of other Lexus and Toyota models.

Yup.  Again, I get that it's easier and cheaper this way.  But if you're trying to tell me it would be otherwise fiscally impossible for Toyota - second largest car manufacturer in the world -  to offer a performance rwd sports coupe using their own proprietary chassis and engine, I'm going to ask what kind of magic wand Ford, Chevy, Nissan and Mazda are using. 

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2019, 07:21:39 am »
For a company that made the LFA...more than once for the same car...I do not think money is the issue whatsoever. However, you make money by saving money, I just do not think a halo type sports car is where you do it. That is the type of vehicle you pull out all the stops for the drivetrain, as that is kinda the whole point of the car. Yes other sports cars use humble or borrowed engines, like Lotus, but Lotuses are great in spite of those engines, not because of them.
If driving an Alfa does not restore vitality to your soul, then just pass the hospital and park at the morgue to save everyone time.

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Offline Jaeger

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Re: Preview: 2020 Toyota Supra
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2019, 07:36:55 am »
For a company that made the LFA...more than once for the same car...I do not think money is the issue whatsoever. However, you make money by saving money, I just do not think a halo type sports car is where you do it. That is the type of vehicle you pull out all the stops for the drivetrain, as that is kinda the whole point of the car. Yes other sports cars use humble or borrowed engines, like Lotus, but Lotuses are great in spite of those engines, not because of them.

Good point.