Author Topic: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual  (Read 20290 times)

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #80 on: January 30, 2019, 10:56:02 am »


i got thinking about this a bit more and decided to find some stats regarding the 2.0T and V6 Sorentos...Car and Driver instrument tested both versions and they had this to say:

Wonder if they both have the same gearing. This also makes a difference.


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Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2019, 11:03:00 am »


i got thinking about this a bit more and decided to find some stats regarding the 2.0T and V6 Sorentos...Car and Driver instrument tested both versions and they had this to say:

Wonder if they both have the same gearing. This also makes a difference.
i'm pretty sure they use the same transmission...i suppose the gearing could be different, but i would think that would still be the same.
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Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2019, 11:31:14 am »
while looking up the specs on the engines earlier, i came across this article as well:

https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-scroll-vs-single-scroll-turbo-test-the-great-divide/

it talks about twin scroll turbochargers (which mine has) and how they perform for HP, TQ as well as response times for boost RPM and psi (vs single scroll models)...this would certainly affect things, including the amount of "turbo lag" you feel.

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2019, 11:39:36 am »
Flooring the throttle at highway speeds, my Sonata 2.0t definitely responded quicker than my Genesis V6.  Not apples to apples - the Genesis is quite a bit heavier and uses an 8 speed auto versus 6 for the Sonata.  The Sonata also responded quicker than my manual V6 Altima which preceded it.

Whateves.  I don't know why some find it hard to believe / accept that n/a versus turbo motors have different strengths and weaknesses and the fact that most contemporary turbos make peak torque just off idle, their advantage lies in immediacy of throttle response.  For those who want to believe that contemporary turbos take 3 or 4 seconds to spool up and provide boost, nothing will change your minds and I have zero interest in trying.

And again, I generally prefer n/a motors (n/a 4-pots excepted) but I am not delusional about their properties.

Lol, thanks for your opinion.

Seems you also have zero interest in trying to understand those charts I’ve posted. You know, actual test results, i.e. facts. There’s even an article that explains it all in plain English, but whatevs, it’s probably all just lies from the mainstream media and a guy pretending to be Porsche engineer. You know better. ;)

Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2019, 03:06:20 pm »
while looking up the specs on the engines earlier, i came across this article as well:

https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-scroll-vs-single-scroll-turbo-test-the-great-divide/

it talks about twin scroll turbochargers (which mine has) and how they perform for HP, TQ as well as response times for boost RPM and psi (vs single scroll models)...this would certainly affect things, including the amount of "turbo lag" you feel.
Electronic waste gates and quick spool valves help too..
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2019, 03:58:16 pm »

Offline Jaeger

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2019, 04:24:16 pm »
Flooring the throttle at highway speeds, my Sonata 2.0t definitely responded quicker than my Genesis V6.  Not apples to apples - the Genesis is quite a bit heavier and uses an 8 speed auto versus 6 for the Sonata.  The Sonata also responded quicker than my manual V6 Altima which preceded it.

Whateves.  I don't know why some find it hard to believe / accept that n/a versus turbo motors have different strengths and weaknesses and the fact that most contemporary turbos make peak torque just off idle, their advantage lies in immediacy of throttle response.  For those who want to believe that contemporary turbos take 3 or 4 seconds to spool up and provide boost, nothing will change your minds and I have zero interest in trying.

And again, I generally prefer n/a motors (n/a 4-pots excepted) but I am not delusional about their properties.

Lol, thanks for your opinion.

Lol, you're welcome.
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2019, 05:08:07 pm »
^^ This is also a neat idea: https://www.wired.com/2017/04/little-fan-fixes-turbochargers-biggest-problem/

Here's a brief primer on quick spool valves.      http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Quick%20Spool%20Valve%20Test.html


And here's a plot.  With quick spool valve in place, car picks up 50hp and 70tq at same RPM!


Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2019, 05:14:32 pm »
^^ This is also a neat idea: https://www.wired.com/2017/04/little-fan-fixes-turbochargers-biggest-problem/

Here's a brief primer on quick spool valves.      http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Quick%20Spool%20Valve%20Test.html


And here's a plot.  With quick spool valve in place, car picks up 50hp and 70tq at same RPM!


sure, but it doesn't appear to do anything below about 2300 RPM, which is kind of what we were talking about...while the power increase is decent at the 3500 RPM, it looks like it's way down at the top end (unless they simply shut the test off for some reason above those revs)...the drop off seems to happen around 4200 RPM and the max numbers show it's down 126 HP and about 74 TQ in the upper end.

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2019, 05:16:27 pm »
^^ This is also a neat idea: https://www.wired.com/2017/04/little-fan-fixes-turbochargers-biggest-problem/

Here's a brief primer on quick spool valves.      http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Quick%20Spool%20Valve%20Test.html


And here's a plot.  With quick spool valve in place, car picks up 50hp and 70tq at same RPM!


sure, but it doesn't appear to do anything below about 2300 RPM, which is kind of what we were talking about...while the power increase is decent at the 3500 RPM, it looks like it's way down at the top end (unless they simply shut the test off for some reason above those revs)...the drop off seems to happen around 4200 RPM and the max numbers show it's down 126 HP and about 74 TQ in the upper end.

If you don't see the difference at lower RPM, you're not reading the graph properly.

Offline dirtyjeffer

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2019, 05:19:27 pm »
If you don't see the difference at lower RPM, you're not reading the graph properly.
ok, then...what am i missing below about 2300 RPM?

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2019, 05:41:27 pm »
So red is with spool valve, blue without?

The way I see it, you're gaining in the midrange, but losing at the bottom and top.  ???

Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2019, 05:53:48 pm »

sure, but it doesn't appear to do anything below about 2300 RPM, which is kind of what we were talking about...while the power increase is decent at the 3500 RPM, it looks like it's way down at the top end (unless they simply shut the test off for some reason above those revs)...the drop off seems to happen around 4200 RPM and the max numbers show it's down 126 HP and about 74 TQ in the upper end.

You can tune it to open at ANY RPM you want....and tune the curve to how you want with all of these devices in play.  Not the greatest plot...was just trying to show torque increase.  Below plot is better.

The graph you see is set-up for racing, so no need for low RPM torque....but if that's what you want, you merely match the turbo and the tune.  That's a whole other class....learning to read turbo compressor maps.  Anyone interested?   ;D

Here's another plot...with a MASSIVE turbo (massive turbos aren't tuned for low end TQ, obviously!).  No losses anywhere....Just plenty of torque goodness!






Turbo BMW M3.  Large turbo.  Turbo got to full boost 500RPM sooner, too.  You guys get the idea....sky's the limit these days.  But manufacturers play a big game of trade-offs (generally).  You want more torque down low?  Want more power up top?  They (generally) like more torque down low and quicker spool (driveability issues)...so that means smaller turbos.  Which means power suffers up top and drops off fast on these small displacement cars.





« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 06:13:22 pm by rrocket »

Offline Seafoam

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2019, 07:23:45 pm »
Huh . I wonder if that would work on my car?
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2019, 07:40:06 pm »
Huh . I wonder if that would work on my car?

Will work on any car....the only thing is whether it will fit on your manifold and turbo housing.

What are you using for boost control now??

Offline Seafoam

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2019, 08:24:28 pm »
Huh . I wonder if that would work on my car?

Will work on any car....the only thing is whether it will fit on your manifold and turbo housing.

What are you using for boost control now??

I think it's called a Turbosmart manual boost controller.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2019, 08:26:58 pm »
Huh . I wonder if that would work on my car?

Will work on any car....the only thing is whether it will fit on your manifold and turbo housing.

What are you using for boost control now??

I think it's called a Turbosmart manual boost controller.

How many PSI you run?  Any issues with fuel cut?  What's stock PSI and what are you boosting to?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 08:31:12 pm by rrocket »

Offline Seafoam

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2019, 08:53:42 pm »
Huh . I wonder if that would work on my car?

Will work on any car....the only thing is whether it will fit on your manifold and turbo housing.

What are you using for boost control now??

I think it's called a Turbosmart manual boost controller.

How many PSI you run?  Any issues with fuel cut?  What's stock PSI and what are you boosting to?

The stock boost pressure i believe is about 8.5 pounds of boost. I think with the modifications that have been done it is set to 10 pounds.
There is a lower rev limit on the MSM's so it reaches fuel cut very quickly. I have this kit on the car now. https://www.flyinmiata.com/little-enchilada.html

Offline rrocket

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2019, 09:04:24 pm »
Huh . I wonder if that would work on my car?

Will work on any car....the only thing is whether it will fit on your manifold and turbo housing.

What are you using for boost control now??

I think it's called a Turbosmart manual boost controller.

How many PSI you run?  Any issues with fuel cut?  What's stock PSI and what are you boosting to?

The stock boost pressure i believe is about 8.5 pounds of boost. I think with the modifications that have been done it is set to 10 pounds.
There is a lower rev limit on the MSM's so it reaches fuel cut very quickly. I have this kit on the car now. https://www.flyinmiata.com/little-enchilada.html

I don't see any boost controller in that package...that's something you got separately?

If I were you...I'd recommend the Hallman Pro RX boost controller.  Has ceramic ball to control the valve..and with a light spring, you can set boost in very minute increments....and get it as close to your fuel shut off as need be.  Very accurate,no spikes and response is also REALLY fast.  On some cars, 500RPM quicker boost...which is extremely impressive.

It's a cheap and easy way to get better response...and it's a work of art to look at.  :)

Looks like you have a really nice little set-up!!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 09:08:27 pm by rrocket »

Offline Seafoam

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Re: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2019, 08:14:53 am »
Huh . I wonder if that would work on my car?

Will work on any car....the only thing is whether it will fit on your manifold and turbo housing.

What are you using for boost control now??

I think it's called a Turbosmart manual boost controller.

How many PSI you run?  Any issues with fuel cut?  What's stock PSI and what are you boosting to?

The stock boost pressure i believe is about 8.5 pounds of boost. I think with the modifications that have been done it is set to 10 pounds.
There is a lower rev limit on the MSM's so it reaches fuel cut very quickly. I have this kit on the car now. https://www.flyinmiata.com/little-enchilada.html

I don't see any boost controller in that package...that's something you got separately?

If I were you...I'd recommend the Hallman Pro RX boost controller.  Has ceramic ball to control the valve..and with a light spring, you can set boost in very minute increments....and get it as close to your fuel shut off as need be.  Very accurate,no spikes and response is also REALLY fast.  On some cars, 500RPM quicker boost...which is extremely impressive.

It's a cheap and easy way to get better response...and it's a work of art to look at.  :)

Looks like you have a really nice little set-up!!

The previous owner installed the mods. Very clean work.
 
I do have this installed on the car though. https://www.flyinmiata.com/turbosmart-manual-boost-controller.html
Is this not  a boost controller although manual adjustment under the hood?

Quite happy how it performs. Have driven a few stock setups and there is  a notable difference with no drivability issues.
I'll check that controller out.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 08:17:29 am by Seafoam »