Topic: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual

[dirtyjeffer]

Guess I’ll have to pull a quote from that article I linked to earlier:

“The peak engine output that automakers advertise and owners brag about is measured in laboratories where engines are held at a constant rpm with the throttle wide open and the turbo can take its sweet time spooling. That time is a key characteristic, rarely reported but highly telling, of a boosted engine’s responsiveness. Porsche engineers acknowledge that the newly turbocharged 911 Carrera needs a full three seconds at wide-open throttle to achieve its maximum torque at 1800 rpm.”

If it takes 3 seconds in a new 911, I doubt it’s any better in a new GTI.

that makes no sense though...if you have a new 911, and give it WOT for 3 seconds, it would redline...in fact, the article i linked a few posts above shows it gets to 60mph in about 3.5 seconds...it also states "no noticeable lag".

FFS IT SAYS MAXIMUM TORQUE.  It doesn't say zero torque.

ok, well watch the review of the new 911 in the video i posted...it certainly isn't lacking for power or torque...as well, they clearly stated no noticeable lag, which is what we've been talking about.

[rrocket]

That’s the reality on a dyno, but good luck getting that much torque at that rpm in real-world driving.

This is the correct answer.

I'm not terribly surprised most people don't know how manufacturers achieve these results.

[quadzilla]

ok, well watch the review of the new 911 in the video i posted...it certainly isn't lacking for power or torque...as well, they clearly stated no noticeable lag, which is what we've been talking about.

I'll be honest, I'm not going to bother watching the video because I don't care what they said. Different reviewers have different opinions. No different than here.

Yes, we are talking about lag to which people admitted there was some.

yea, same engine in our Sorento...while i'm sure there's a bit of lag

Jeebus, my 2011 Sonata barely had any turbo lag.

Nobody in here is saying that modern turbos have lag like an old Saab but there is some and that amount varies between each car.

[dirtyjeffer]

Nobody in here is saying that modern turbos have lag like an old Saab but there is some and that amount varies between each car.

fair enough, but my experience with the few i've driven, the lag has been pretty much non-existent...certainly low enough that it isn't even worthy of commenting on.

[rrocket]

Nobody in here is saying that modern turbos have lag like an old Saab but there is some and that amount varies between each car.

Yep.  Even on my meticulously modded TT....with the most aggressive tune (and necessary supporting mods) for the most instantaneous boost response...there was still some lag.  IIRC, AngryChicken changed out my tune map with a less aggressive one.

[quadzilla]

Nobody in here is saying that modern turbos have lag like an old Saab but there is some and that amount varies between each car.

fair enough, but my experience with the few i've driven, the lag has been pretty much non-existent...certainly low enough that it isn't even worthy of commenting on.

If we don't comment on it, what are we going to talk about. 

[rrocket]

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Come on, man!  You should know the answer to this...I thought you knew about dynos??   

[HeliDriver]

Instant torque and boost lag seems to contradict each other, which is it?

Go drive a GTI and report back.  Virtually no lag and immediate response at low rpm.

That wasn't my experience.

Your experience goes against reality.  258 ft lb of torque at 1500 rpm will do that.

That’s the reality on a dyno, but good luck getting that much torque at that rpm in real-world driving. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15348405/turbo-vs-non-turbo-putting-throttle-response-to-the-test/

I feel turbo lag in the GTI. It’s not horrible, like in the old days, but it’s there.

You drive a 2010.  The 2015+ version is significantly more responsive.

Guess I’ll have to pull a quote from that article I linked to earlier:

“The peak engine output that automakers advertise and owners brag about is measured in laboratories where engines are held at a constant rpm with the throttle wide open and the turbo can take its sweet time spooling. That time is a key characteristic, rarely reported but highly telling, of a boosted engine’s responsiveness. Porsche engineers acknowledge that the newly turbocharged 911 Carrera needs a full three seconds at wide-open throttle to achieve its maximum torque at 1800 rpm.”

If it takes 3 seconds in a new 911, I doubt it’s any better in a new GTI.

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

No, of course it starts pulling right away. Same as with my GTI.

All we’re saying is that it’s not pulling with the full 258 lb-ft (or whatever) right away.

[Jaeger]

Instant torque and boost lag seems to contradict each other, which is it?

Go drive a GTI and report back.  Virtually no lag and immediate response at low rpm.

That wasn't my experience.

Your experience goes against reality.  258 ft lb of torque at 1500 rpm will do that.

That’s the reality on a dyno, but good luck getting that much torque at that rpm in real-world driving. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15348405/turbo-vs-non-turbo-putting-throttle-response-to-the-test/

I feel turbo lag in the GTI. It’s not horrible, like in the old days, but it’s there.

You drive a 2010.  The 2015+ version is significantly more responsive.

Guess I’ll have to pull a quote from that article I linked to earlier:

“The peak engine output that automakers advertise and owners brag about is measured in laboratories where engines are held at a constant rpm with the throttle wide open and the turbo can take its sweet time spooling. That time is a key characteristic, rarely reported but highly telling, of a boosted engine’s responsiveness. Porsche engineers acknowledge that the newly turbocharged 911 Carrera needs a full three seconds at wide-open throttle to achieve its maximum torque at 1800 rpm.”

If it takes 3 seconds in a new 911, I doubt it’s any better in a new GTI.

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Does any car take 3 seconds to get to 1800 rpm??

[HeliDriver]

Instant torque and boost lag seems to contradict each other, which is it?

Go drive a GTI and report back.  Virtually no lag and immediate response at low rpm.

That wasn't my experience.

Your experience goes against reality.  258 ft lb of torque at 1500 rpm will do that.

That’s the reality on a dyno, but good luck getting that much torque at that rpm in real-world driving. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15348405/turbo-vs-non-turbo-putting-throttle-response-to-the-test/

I feel turbo lag in the GTI. It’s not horrible, like in the old days, but it’s there.

You drive a 2010.  The 2015+ version is significantly more responsive.

Guess I’ll have to pull a quote from that article I linked to earlier:

“The peak engine output that automakers advertise and owners brag about is measured in laboratories where engines are held at a constant rpm with the throttle wide open and the turbo can take its sweet time spooling. That time is a key characteristic, rarely reported but highly telling, of a boosted engine’s responsiveness. Porsche engineers acknowledge that the newly turbocharged 911 Carrera needs a full three seconds at wide-open throttle to achieve its maximum torque at 1800 rpm.”

If it takes 3 seconds in a new 911, I doubt it’s any better in a new GTI.

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Does any car take 3 seconds to get to 1800 rpm??

Not at all what we’re talking about. Go read that Car and Driver article again.

[rrocket]

Instant torque and boost lag seems to contradict each other, which is it?

Go drive a GTI and report back.  Virtually no lag and immediate response at low rpm.

That wasn't my experience.

Your experience goes against reality.  258 ft lb of torque at 1500 rpm will do that.

That’s the reality on a dyno, but good luck getting that much torque at that rpm in real-world driving. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15348405/turbo-vs-non-turbo-putting-throttle-response-to-the-test/

I feel turbo lag in the GTI. It’s not horrible, like in the old days, but it’s there.

You drive a 2010.  The 2015+ version is significantly more responsive.

Guess I’ll have to pull a quote from that article I linked to earlier:

“The peak engine output that automakers advertise and owners brag about is measured in laboratories where engines are held at a constant rpm with the throttle wide open and the turbo can take its sweet time spooling. That time is a key characteristic, rarely reported but highly telling, of a boosted engine’s responsiveness. Porsche engineers acknowledge that the newly turbocharged 911 Carrera needs a full three seconds at wide-open throttle to achieve its maximum torque at 1800 rpm.”

If it takes 3 seconds in a new 911, I doubt it’s any better in a new GTI.

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Does any car take 3 seconds to get to 1800 rpm??

When testing on a dyno/engine lab to get HP and TQ figures?  Yep..all of them.

[Jaeger]

Nobody in here is saying that modern turbos have lag like an old Saab but there is some and that amount varies between each car.

fair enough, but my experience with the few i've driven, the lag has been pretty much non-existent...certainly low enough that it isn't even worthy of commenting on.

That's my experience as well.

[rrocket]

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Come on, man!  You should know the answer to this...I thought you knew about dynos??   

 

Seriously...I'm not kidding.  There is a correct answer to this.

Stew on it a bit and send me a PM if you don't know the answer.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Come on, man!  You should know the answer to this...I thought you knew about dynos??   

 

Seriously...I'm not kidding.  There is a correct answer to this.

Stew on it a bit and send me a PM if you don't know the answer.

Christ!!!  THE ANSWER IS 4TH GEAR!!!!

[rrocket]

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Come on, man!  You should know the answer to this...I thought you knew about dynos??   

 

Seriously...I'm not kidding.  There is a correct answer to this.

Stew on it a bit and send me a PM if you don't know the answer.

Christ!!!  THE ANSWER IS 4TH GEAR!!!!

Well done!

Why is the answer 4th gear, class?   

[dirtyjeffer]

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Come on, man!  You should know the answer to this...I thought you knew about dynos??   

 

Seriously...I'm not kidding.  There is a correct answer to this.

Stew on it a bit and send me a PM if you don't know the answer.

Christ!!!  THE ANSWER IS 4TH GEAR!!!!

Well done!

Why is the answer 4th gear, class?   

gear ratio.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Why would you dyno a CVT?

[rrocket]

And if it is always 4th gear how do you Dino a CVT?

It's not always 4th gear.  Depends on the car.

Excellent question re CVT though.  I'm guessing the manufacturers "lock" the ratio since the CVTG is controlled by electronics and pumps.

Really good question though!

[rrocket]

Why would you dyno a CVT?

I think he means manufacturers...for the purpose of establishing HP/TQ for printed materials.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

What gear were they in.  Even my Golf R with a larger turbo has none of this 3 second lag.  Even at 2000 rpm.

Come on, man!  You should know the answer to this...I thought you knew about dynos??   

 

Seriously...I'm not kidding.  There is a correct answer to this.

Stew on it a bit and send me a PM if you don't know the answer.

Christ!!!  THE ANSWER IS 4TH GEAR!!!!

Well done!

Why is the answer 4th gear, class?   

gear ratio.

Do a 4th gear pull from 1500rpm in a V6 Sorento vs a 2.0T Sorento, and the V6 Sorento will pull away quicker.