Topic: Test Drive: 2019 Genesis G70 3.3T Sport AWD

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD.

Sorry, this has to be your worst argument ever and has NOTHING to do with auto vs manual.

His point is that if Hyundai is willing to spend the money to have separate tooling for one model (LHD, RHD), then developing and tooling for a manual transmission is peanuts in comparison.

But Hyundai did all that to sell 100% of the cars the build for the alternate markets. Doing all the work to sell a few manual transmissions just doesn't make financial sense to them. How can you not see the difference.

Because hissy fit. 

No need to be demeaning to those of us who disagree with you.  We are being polite...and merely bringing up our opinion on the matter.  It doesn't take away from the fact that the G70 is an excellent car.

[dirtyjeffer]

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD.

Sorry, this has to be your worst argument ever and has NOTHING to do with auto vs manual.

His point is that if Hyundai is willing to spend the money to have separate tooling for one model (LHD, RHD), then developing and tooling for a manual transmission is peanuts in comparison.

But Hyundai did all that to sell 100% of the cars the build for the alternate markets. Doing all the work to sell a few manual transmissions just doesn't make financial sense to them. How can you not see the difference.

Because hissy fit.  You know what it wouldn't be if a G70 3.3t landed in my driveway?  A "shame".     Sorry to bring a dose of reality to the rant, but this what a premium sports sedan looks like in 2019.  The Germans know it.  Lexus knows it. Genesis knows it.

i know it...if i were buying a G70, and i had the choice of their auto or manual, i'd buy the auto...not because i don't know how to drive a manual, but because i no longer want to...driving a manual was fun when i was 20...45-60 minutes in bumper to bumper traffic is no fun in a manual, and likely wears the clutch out faster anyway.

as you've said, it's all part of a business case...i'm sure there's a few people here who would have preferred a manual, but they've crunched the numbers and it just didn't make sense...and i'm fine with that.

[ChaosphereIX]

and that indeed is a shame - they could have had a car for the ages, something really special that would cement them in the minds of enthusiasts - now the G70 seems to be fantastic, but it doesn't stand out vs the competition really, it just competes at their level. A manual option, when BMW, Audi, and even Alfa don't offer one? Now that is some marketing juice you could capitalize on!

yes, car companies are in the business of making money, but they make cars that are marginal or even lose money all the time - look at GM and the EVs - I doubt they make much, if any, off of each Volt or Bolt sold...but they are doing it anyway. Genesis can do the same to garner much needed perceived sporting credentials as they are trying to elbow their way into the sport sedan arena that is already crowded with premium powerful AWD auto transmission cars. Reputation and perception mean a lot in this modern marketing-driven world. The perception of CUVs as tough and utilitarian is the reason people bought them in the first place, that that was all shaped by the shoehorning of AWD onto a car chassis and jacking the car up etc. Perception counts for raising one's reputation.

I know us enthusiasts are a tiny demographic, but perception counts for something, even if they buy the auto. People will read reviews, they will watch commercials, they will watch YT videos...and a manual transmission just adds to the sporty image of the car. Might make them want to buy it over the Audi. There, a manual added value to the brand...worth the money. 

[Gurgie]

These are fabulous looking cars and are quite well executed, props to Hyundai!! I've seen a few out on the streets and I'll always stop to check them out.

I am however on GBA's and Chaos' side... they should have put the effort in to offer a manual in the top dog. The AWD system was developed with Magna (as far as I remember) which is mechanically similar to the BMW xDrive system... which did have a manual option. Maybe they sell only 20/year here in Canada, but those would've been 20 conquest purchasers, if I'm in a 335i xDrive manual right now that's going on 5yrs old and it's time for me to get a new sedan and NONE of the manufacturers are offering a manual anymore... may as well stick with buying another BMW then, why switch my loyalty to another company at this point? Especially if I've been in BMW's for the past 2 - 3 cars? Now if someone is offering a manual in just as good a package, maybe they get my cash.

And as for the business case arguments... look at what the bean counters have done to the auto manufacturers in the past 30yrs, FACKED them so bad that some of them almost went outta business.

[Fobroader]

I agree that the lack of a manual is pathetic and sad because this is supposed to be "sporty".....the best part is that there really is no excuse to buy the German brands this day and age. I've said before that the A4/3 series/C class only become special and lustfull when there is an AMG/M/RS badge on the trunk and a V8 under the hood, the lesser, welfare spec lease only models are really quite bland and pedestrian. This should be a real nail in the coffin for the "premium" german brands, but alas, the badge whores will continue buying them as they won't be able to impress the people at work with a Hyundai badge, that mercedes three pointed star, will make Dave from HR die from jealousy, even if its attached to a CLA......Great work Hyundai, well done.

[Patrick_D1]

Allow me to weigh in a bit on the manual topic, as I am indeed responsible for the packaging in Canada.

In the case of G70, while I'd like to have a manual with the 3.3T Sport and have requested it on many occasions, it simply hasn't been in the cards. Developing an all-new vehicle platform is incredibly expensive, particularly for a newer luxury brand like Genesis where sales volume (and thus program amortization) will be necessarily slower. This is understood - it's the cost of breaking into the market. However, it also means that any new development projects need to be carefully analyzed.

In this instance, it's a case of "we're lucky to have the manual on the 2.0T, because otherwise we wouldn't have it at all." None of our existing manual gearboxes are compatible with the newer-generation Lambda 3.3L engine, but one was compatible with the Theta-series 2.0L engine. The costs of developing a new gearbox to work with the 3.3T engine are simply prohibitive considering the extremely low take rate for such a configuration. This applies even more so in Canada, as the manual is paired with RWD. Designing one to go with AWD adds yet another layer of extremely expensive development work. On top of all of this work, every new powertrain combo requires extensive testing, certification, QA assessment, etc. Finally, it's not as simple as going to an outside vendor - all our gearboxes are developed in-house, with the platforms and powertrains built accordingly. Not only would an outside gearbox (i.e. Tremec, Getrag, etc.) require substantial development to fit into a Genesis vehicle, but I would also suspect the per-unit costs would be ugly as we have no other relationship with such vendors (i.e. no economies of scale or volume agreement).

Rest assured that we'll keep asking and advocating for the manual as a brand-builder that helps draw in enthusiast buyers (read: product evangelists who can advocate among their peer groups). That said, I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding among many about how easy it is to add an entirely new powertrain configuration.

For what it's worth, we're not having any issues moving the top-spec 3.3T Sport AWD in automatic form - this one single trim (of 6) represents >55% of our total sales!

Happy to answer any other questions.

[mlin32]

Put me in the skeptical camp (as I am a corporate bean counter) : if it made financial sense to still offer a manual, Hyundai probably would have done it.

With tightening emissions/fuel consumption standards, reduced consumer demand, it makes less sense than ever to offer a manual transmission. I live in Europe, which typically has the highest take rate of 3-pedal cars, and even here it is dying out. Pretty much anything 6-cyl and up is automatic only for the Germans, and the French and Americans relegate them to the bottom rung of engines as well. Plus, manuals can't cope with the latest safety/driver assists. The share of sporty cars is ever smaller as well.

To go thru the certification and developpement costs for a sliver of an ever-shrinking market makes little financial sense. It's not just "let's hook a different gearbox to an existing engine".

[ChaosphereIX]

thank you for weighing in Patrick, good to see behind the curtain on things such as this to help turn guesses into facts

I am still hopeful that they will offer a manual. As the brand grows, maybe a mid-cycle refresh could warrant one to be inserted. Maybe not AWD, but 3.3T with manual (from say the Genesis coupe?) could maybe work. Just a shame that the marketing wins of offering a manual while the other's don't fails to persuade the bean counters to let the enthusiasts have a little fun.

All that being said, I am glad the G70 is doing well for Hyundai. More choice is always better.

[dirtyjeffer]

For what it's worth, we're not having any issues moving the top-spec 3.3T Sport AWD in automatic form - this one single trim (of 6) represents >55% of our total sales!

makes sense, it would either be the top trim or the one right below it that i would buy personally.

and regardless of what chaos says, even without a manual option, there are still plenty of reasons to buy this car over many of its other competitors (most of which are German)...reliability is one (Genesis did just get top spot recently), but there is still a lot of performance and value with this car.

example, the 340i X-drive starts at $59,280...add in the bits to make it comparable to the top dog G70 (Performance Package I & II, Premium Package Enhanced, Smartphone Connectivity) and you are at $72,844 (and there's likely a couple things you still don't get)...that makes the top trim G70 $15,844 less...i know buyers in that segment are not likely shopping on price alone, but that's a savings of almost $18k with taxes (ON)...that will buy a nice Civic or Corolla for the kids to use.

[Wildsau]

Thanks for those insights, Patrick. I think it helps readers understand where OEMs come from, and how some or many of the barriers are financially restrictive, if not insurmountable. And in the end, it's a business decision. It has to be. So even if it could be sold as giving the brand further legitimacy as the enthusiast's driving machine, there are other things at play that hold back the ability to simply throw a manual transmission into the offerings mix.

I love manual transmissions, and I love them on all vehicles. I love them in big, boxy SUVs (I always rent manuals in Europe, even in the worst vehicles) and I love them in sporty, capable cars. And everything in between.

But as another poster noted, I too would buy this car with the automatic. While I reviewed this one for this article, I was thinking that exact thing. Not that it's my preference, but 90%+ of my driving time is spent commuting in Edmonton, in slow (often bumper-to-bumper) traffic - minimum of 50 minutes each way. And when I review manual transmission vehicles, I do not enjoy the experience. If I had a highway/freeway commute, or lived somewhere with no traffic, or could spend more than a fraction of my time behind the wheel throwing the shifter through its gates with glee rather than seething rage, I'd consider a manual. But for my life and my needs, as much as I love that shifter and that third pedal, I wouldn't own one these days. A sad truth. And I don't think I'm alone in this category.

[Jaeger]

Can always count on Patrick to cut through the noise.

[ChaosphereIX]

Can always count on Patrick to cut through the noise.

In other threads...you make quite a bit of noise yourself, bub

...lets try not to be too acidic here, just trying to passionately discuss some of the finer points of (and we all agree on this) a fantastic first offering from Hyundai in this arena. I wish them well, the Germans better take notice.

[Jaeger]

Put me in the skeptical camp (as I am a corporate bean counter) : if it made financial sense to still offer a manual, Hyundai probably would have done it.

With tightening emissions/fuel consumption standards, reduced consumer demand, it makes less sense than ever to offer a manual transmission. I live in Europe, which typically has the highest take rate of 3-pedal cars, and even here it is dying out. Pretty much anything 6-cyl and up is automatic only for the Germans, and the French and Americans relegate them to the bottom rung of engines as well. Plus, manuals can't cope with the latest safety/driver assists. The share of sporty cars is ever smaller as well.

To go thru the certification and developpement costs for a sliver of an ever-shrinking market makes little financial sense. It's not just "let's hook a different gearbox to an existing engine".

Stop making sense and embrace the rage!   

[Weels]

But as another poster noted, I too would buy this car with the automatic. While I reviewed this one for this article, I was thinking that exact thing. Not that it's my preference, but 90%+ of my driving time is spent commuting in Edmonton, in slow (often bumper-to-bumper) traffic - minimum of 50 minutes each way. And when I review manual transmission vehicles, I do not enjoy the experience. If I had a highway/freeway commute, or lived somewhere with no traffic, or could spend more than a fraction of my time behind the wheel throwing the shifter through its gates with glee rather than seething rage, I'd consider a manual. But for my life and my needs, as much as I love that shifter and that third pedal, I wouldn't own one these days. A sad truth. And I don't think I'm alone in this category.

If the manual was available with the TT6 (assuming I was currently in a position to buy a G70 in the first place) i'd have the same thoughts as mentioned above.  Would I want a stick with a dd? 
I think I would go manual, because my commute is 15 minutes max.  If it was an hour a day, i'd probably go with the auto, as long it was a good one.  And I think I enjoy driving as much as anyone else on here.

But for a sunny day / toy car like MX-5, manual or bust.  If the MX-5 was automatic only I would not have bought it. 

[Jaeger]

^^^ I am so facking jealous of your commute!

[Fobroader]

But as another poster noted, I too would buy this car with the automatic. While I reviewed this one for this article, I was thinking that exact thing. Not that it's my preference, but 90%+ of my driving time is spent commuting in Edmonton, in slow (often bumper-to-bumper) traffic - minimum of 50 minutes each way. And when I review manual transmission vehicles, I do not enjoy the experience. If I had a highway/freeway commute, or lived somewhere with no traffic, or could spend more than a fraction of my time behind the wheel throwing the shifter through its gates with glee rather than seething rage, I'd consider a manual. But for my life and my needs, as much as I love that shifter and that third pedal, I wouldn't own one these days. A sad truth. And I don't think I'm alone in this category.

If the manual was available with the TT6 (assuming I was currently in a position to buy a G70 in the first place) i'd have the same thoughts as mentioned above.  Would I want a stick with a dd? 
I think I would go manual, because my commute is 15 minutes max.  If it was an hour a day, i'd probably go with the auto, as long it was a good one.  And I think I enjoy driving as much as anyone else on here.

But for a sunny day / toy car like MX-5, manual or bust.  If the MX-5 was automatic only I would not have bought it.

Theres a special place in hell for anyone that buys a Miata with a slushbox!!!

[Weels]

^^^ I am so facking jealous of your commute!

15 minutes if there is traffic.  Otherwise it's 12.  10 if I have the MX-5.   

[lebowski]

+1 really enjoyed your insight here, Patrick. Thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, I can't help but notice the folly in berating Hyundai for not offering a manual transmission in their 3-series-fighter, while the new 3-series itself will not have a manual 

[Fobroader]

+1 really enjoyed your insight here, Patrick. Thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, I can't help but notice the folly in berating Hyundai for not offering a manual transmission in their 3-series-fighter, while the new 3-series itself will not have a manual 

Yeah but thats BMW, its expected from them, they are no longer the ultimate driving machine, they are now the ultimate machine when you don't want to show up in a Toyota Camry 

[Jaeger]

+1 really enjoyed your insight here, Patrick. Thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, I can't help but notice the folly in berating Hyundai for not offering a manual transmission in their 3-series-fighter, while the new 3-series itself will not have a manual 

And of course you CAN get a manual in the G70 - just not with the top motor. But that totally doesn't count for some arbitrary reason. I guess it's not an enthusiast car if it only has a turbo 4? Going to be bad news for more than a few people.