Topic: Test Drive: 2019 Genesis G70 3.3T Sport AWD

[AutoTrader.ca]

Sights set squarely on Teutonic competition. 
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[ChaosphereIX]

a fantastically executed compact sport sedan that will make the Germans take notice for sure, I see it doing well (as well as sedans can do in today's sales climate that is)

However, I have said it before: needs a manual transmission - then it would be nearly perfect. The Germans are dropping it from nearly all models, so Genesis had an opportunity to step in and get real enthusiast credentials by offering a knockout blow. Even the OPTION of a manual would be enough, even if you had to special order it. Instead of a true knockout for enthusiasts, it is just another "also ran" in a sea of similar sport sedans form the Germans and Italians.

Needs a manual with the AWD and 3.3T. Manual with the 2.0T is not the combo anyone wants.

[Jaeger]

They got this thing really freaking right.

[quadzilla]

Does your Genesis need maintenance? (All scheduled maintenance is included, by the way.) You guessed it. They’ll come to you, pick up your car and leave you with a Genesis vehicle so you never miss a step.

I thought I read somewhere that this only applies if you live within 50 kms of the shop.

[Nate4x4]

I've always liked the Genesis.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

a fantastically executed compact sport sedan that will make the Germans take notice for sure, I see it doing well (as well as sedans can do in today's sales climate that is)

However, I have said it before: needs a manual transmission - then it would be nearly perfect. The Germans are dropping it from nearly all models, so Genesis had an opportunity to step in and get real enthusiast credentials by offering a knockout blow. Even the OPTION of a manual would be enough, even if you had to special order it. Instead of a true knockout for enthusiasts, it is just another "also ran" in a sea of similar sport sedans form the Germans and Italians.

Needs a manual with the AWD and 3.3T. Manual with the 2.0T is not the combo anyone wants.

Tell this to Patrick.  Isn't he literally the guy who decides on packaging strategy for this country? 

[SeaBlueS4]

a fantastically executed compact sport sedan that will make the Germans take notice for sure, I see it doing well (as well as sedans can do in today's sales climate that is)

However, I have said it before: needs a manual transmission - then it would be nearly perfect. The Germans are dropping it from nearly all models, so Genesis had an opportunity to step in and get real enthusiast credentials by offering a knockout blow. Even the OPTION of a manual would be enough, even if you had to special order it. Instead of a true knockout for enthusiasts, it is just another "also ran" in a sea of similar sport sedans form the Germans and Italians.

Needs a manual with the AWD and 3.3T. Manual with the 2.0T is not the combo anyone wants.

Tell this to Patrick.  Isn't he literally the guy who decides on packaging strategy for this country?

+1... I'll test drive this when it comes time to replace the S4. Did sit in the one on display at Pearson while I had some time to spare... looks nice, doesn't quite live up to Audi feel / quality inside.

If it had the manual + AWD + good engine option it would be pretty much unique and a good reason to buy one over the S4.

[quadzilla]

People can cry as much as they want for an AWD 6 cyl manual transmission car but the facts are nobody buys them. Sure, there are those 5 people on the internet that say they will but that isn't enough to produce the car.

[ChaosphereIX]

People can cry as much as they want for an AWD 6 cyl manual transmission car but the facts are nobody buys them. Sure, there are those 5 people on the internet that say they will but that isn't enough to produce the car.

That is a tired, and quite frankly, weak excuse. It is a sport sedan. It has Brembo brakes, LSD, turbos, sport modes, etc. If it wants to cater to enthusiasts, like they say it does, it needs to have the option of a manual transmission. Not saying they need to make millions of them, but have at least the option of one to be special ordered.

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD. The entire body, the panels, interior...everything except the trunk. That is hideously expensive, as they are essentially making two cars for one model. So don't say it is about money - it does not take, in the grand scheme of things, a lot of money and R/D to put a manual transmission into a car. Also Hyundai is swimming in it right now thanks to very strong mainstream sales.

As I said, in my incredibly uninformed opinion, they had a chance to get major enthusiast cred, even if they sell 100 of them. Also, imagine the long-term reputation for Hyundai: in an age where everyone kills off the manual, Hyundai offers an amazing sport sedan that will be collectible and desired in decades to come. No, instead it is going to be yet another "also ran" in a sea of same-ish sport sedans.

Such a shame.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

People can cry as much as they want for an AWD 6 cyl manual transmission car but the facts are nobody buys them. Sure, there are those 5 people on the internet that say they will but that isn't enough to produce the car.

That is a tired, and quite frankly, weak excuse. It is a sport sedan. It has Brembo brakes, LSD, turbos, sport modes, etc. If it wants to cater to enthusiasts, like they say it does, it needs to have the option of a manual transmission. Not saying they need to make millions of them, but have at least the option of one to be special ordered.

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD. The entire body, the panels, interior...everything except the trunk. That is hideously expensive, as they are essentially making two cars for one model. So don't say it is about money - it does not take, in the grand scheme of things, a lot of money and R/D to put a manual transmission into a car. Also Hyundai is swimming in it right now thanks to very strong mainstream sales.

As I said, in my incredibly uninformed opinion, they had a chance to get major enthusiast cred, even if they sell 100 of them. Also, imagine the long-term reputation for Hyundai: in an age where everyone kills off the manual, Hyundai offers an amazing sport sedan that will be collectible and desired in decades to come. No, instead it is going to be yet another "also ran" in a sea of same-ish sport sedans.

Such a shame.

That about sums up my thoughts.  You said it much more eloquently than I could have. 

[Jaeger]

People can cry as much as they want for an AWD 6 cyl manual transmission car but the facts are nobody buys them. Sure, there are those 5 people on the internet that say they will but that isn't enough to produce the car.

That is exactly correct in all respects.  Easy to throw a web hissy fit which costs you precisely $0, but the fact is that out of those 5 people on the internet saying they would buy one, 4 of them won't.  People forget that building cars is a business - not some altruistic goal to satisfy the wet dreams of enthusiast fanboys.  If there isn't a business case to offer the manual with the big motor, then it makes no sense to offer it.  And whether there is a business case is something that they know far better than the keyboard experts on the internet.  Frankly, with what they accomplished in a short time - dismissing those results as a "shame" borders on the preposterous. Actually, no. It crosses that border.

[quadzilla]

People can cry as much as they want for an AWD 6 cyl manual transmission car but the facts are nobody buys them. Sure, there are those 5 people on the internet that say they will but that isn't enough to produce the car.

That is a tired, and quite frankly, weak excuse. It is a sport sedan. It has Brembo brakes, LSD, turbos, sport modes, etc. If it wants to cater to enthusiasts, like they say it does, it needs to have the option of a manual transmission. Not saying they need to make millions of them, but have at least the option of one to be special ordered.

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD. The entire body, the panels, interior...everything except the trunk. That is hideously expensive, as they are essentially making two cars for one model. So don't say it is about money - it does not take, in the grand scheme of things, a lot of money and R/D to put a manual transmission into a car. Also Hyundai is swimming in it right now thanks to very strong mainstream sales.

As I said, in my incredibly uninformed opinion, they had a chance to get major enthusiast cred, even if they sell 100 of them. Also, imagine the long-term reputation for Hyundai: in an age where everyone kills off the manual, Hyundai offers an amazing sport sedan that will be collectible and desired in decades to come. No, instead it is going to be yet another "also ran" in a sea of same-ish sport sedans.

Such a shame.

It has Brembo brakes, LSD, turbos, sport modes, etc.

So do SUVs. Not sure how having all those items means manual trans.

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD.

Sorry, this has to be your worst argument ever and has NOTHING to do with auto vs manual.

Also, you are confusing what you want and think this car can be with what Genesis is doing and what the car really is.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

People can cry as much as they want for an AWD 6 cyl manual transmission car but the facts are nobody buys them. Sure, there are those 5 people on the internet that say they will but that isn't enough to produce the car.

 People forget that building cars is a business - not some altruistic goal to satisfy the wet dreams of enthusiast fanboys. 

Car companies seem to forget this fact when it comes to marketing...talking about passion, and feeling, and conquering the open road, etc.  Sure seems like they are trying to cater to the wet dreams of enthusiastic fan boys when running their ads. 

https://youtu.be/NPrsY3dp3I4?t=3m43s

Easy to throw a web hissy fit ... Frankly, with what they accomplished in a short time - dismissing those results as a "shame" borders on the preposterous. Actually, no. It crosses that border.

Nobody's throwing a web hissy fit.  And we certainly aren't 'shaming' the G70.  It's an excellent car, and nearly completely on-point.  We're just saying that we think Hyundai missed an opportunity to be 'better than' their german competition by offering a true manual transmission with the big engine. 

It has Brembo brakes, LSD, turbos, sport modes, etc.

So do SUVs. Not sure how having all those items means manual trans.

Brembo brakes and LSD signify sporting intentions.  A manual transmission would be a + for those looking for a sport-luxury, driving experience car.

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD.

Sorry, this has to be your worst argument ever and has NOTHING to do with auto vs manual.

His point is that if Hyundai is willing to spend the money to have separate tooling for one model (LHD, RHD), then developing and tooling for a manual transmission is peanuts in comparison.

[ChaosphereIX]

People can cry as much as they want for an AWD 6 cyl manual transmission car but the facts are nobody buys them. Sure, there are those 5 people on the internet that say they will but that isn't enough to produce the car.

That is exactly correct in all respects.  Easy to throw a web hissy fit which costs you precisely $0, but the fact is that out of those 5 people on the internet saying they would buy one, 4 of them won't.  People forget that building cars is a business - not some altruistic goal to satisfy the wet dreams of enthusiast fanboys.  If there isn't a business case to offer the manual with the big motor, then it makes no sense to offer it.  And whether there is a business case is something that they know far better than the keyboard experts on the internet.  Frankly, with what they accomplished in a short time - dismissing those results as a "shame" borders on the preposterous. Actually, no. It crosses that border.

GBA: yup

but why is there a business case to offer the manual with the smaller, less desirable 2.0T but not the enthusiast preferred 3.3T? Why not give the enthusiast transmission the enthusiast engine?

That makes no business sense. Sounds like appeasement, a "be happy we offered a manual at all, now stop complaining about the demise of the manual transmission"

Is the Genesis 3.3T not trying to go after the BMW 335i, Audi S4, Merc....whatever they make in that range? A genuine sport sedan? Then why not give it the sport transmission. Even if people will not buy it, the addition of the manual option will add to the "sporty" image of the car.

If I had the funds, it would be on my shopping list if it had a manual. The sedan (and car) is increasingly being relegated to the enthusiast, the driver who wants to buy a car instead of a jacked up jellybean like all this neighbours.

I just think it is a missed opportunity, and many others think so as well...but we all understand the accountants run car companies, not the engineers or the enthusiasts. So it is sad. RIP driving.

[quadzilla]

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD.

Sorry, this has to be your worst argument ever and has NOTHING to do with auto vs manual.

His point is that if Hyundai is willing to spend the money to have separate tooling for one model (LHD, RHD), then developing and tooling for a manual transmission is peanuts in comparison.

But Hyundai did all that to sell 100% of the cars the build for the alternate markets. Doing all the work to sell a few manual transmissions just doesn't make financial sense to them. How can you not see the difference.

[Serniter]

but why is there a business case to offer the manual with the smaller, less desirable 2.0T but not the enthusiast preferred 3.3T? Why not give the enthusiast transmission the enthusiast engine?

That makes no business sense. Sounds like appeasement, a "be happy we offered a manual at all, now stop complaining about the demise of the manual transmission"

I assume the higher power/torque ratings of the 3.3T would necessitate development of a different manual transmission.  It would be hard to make a case to develop a transmission for one application. For a pure fun car like the Miata, a manual transmission is important. For a multi-role vehicle like the G70, less so IMO.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

but why is there a business case to offer the manual with the smaller, less desirable 2.0T but not the enthusiast preferred 3.3T? Why not give the enthusiast transmission the enthusiast engine?

That makes no business sense. Sounds like appeasement, a "be happy we offered a manual at all, now stop complaining about the demise of the manual transmission"

I assume the higher power/torque ratings of the 3.3T would necessitate development of a different manual transmission.  It would be hard to make a case to develop a transmission for one application. For a pure fun car like the Miata, a manual transmission is important. For a multi-role vehicle like the G70, less so IMO.

Transmissions these days are rarely OEM developed, but rather 3rd party, like ZF, or Aisin.  It could well just be a case of selecting the appropriate manual transmission from whatever 3rd party supplier manufactures it. 

[quadzilla]

but why is there a business case to offer the manual with the smaller, less desirable 2.0T but not the enthusiast preferred 3.3T? Why not give the enthusiast transmission the enthusiast engine?

That makes no business sense. Sounds like appeasement, a "be happy we offered a manual at all, now stop complaining about the demise of the manual transmission"

Is the Genesis 3.3T not trying to go after the BMW 335i, Audi S4, Merc....whatever they make in that range? A genuine sport sedan? Then why not give it the sport transmission. Even if people will not buy it, the addition of the manual option will add to the "sporty" image of the car.

If I had the funds, it would be on my shopping list if it had a manual. The sedan (and car) is increasingly being relegated to the enthusiast, the driver who wants to buy a car instead of a jacked up jellybean like all this neighbours.

I just think it is a missed opportunity, and many others think so as well...but we all understand the accountants run car companies, not the engineers or the enthusiasts. So it is sad. RIP driving.

I'm sure Genesis has their reasons and did their homework. I'm going to make up numbers now because I don't have the inside scoop to the real numbers.

If Genesis did their forecasting and checked trends they came to the conclusion that people will buy 35% of the 4 cyl model with a manual trans where only 1% will for the V6 version. If true, then it would make sense to do it that way.

The fact that you said "Even if people won't buy it" makes me shake my head. Car companies are in the business of making money not throwing it away. Why build a car for people that won't buy it?

[Jaeger]

The entire freaking lineup of the Veloster is retooled for RHD vs LHD.

Sorry, this has to be your worst argument ever and has NOTHING to do with auto vs manual.

His point is that if Hyundai is willing to spend the money to have separate tooling for one model (LHD, RHD), then developing and tooling for a manual transmission is peanuts in comparison.

But Hyundai did all that to sell 100% of the cars the build for the alternate markets. Doing all the work to sell a few manual transmissions just doesn't make financial sense to them. How can you not see the difference.

Because hissy fit.  You know what it wouldn't be if a G70 3.3t landed in my driveway?  A "shame".     Sorry to bring a dose of reality to the rant, but this what a premium sports sedan looks like in 2019.  The Germans know it.  Lexus knows it. Genesis knows it. 

[Jaeger]

I'm sure Genesis has their reasons and did their homework. I'm going to make up numbers now because I don't have the inside scoop to the real numbers.

If Genesis did their forecasting and checked trends they came to the conclusion that people will buy 35% of the 4 cyl model with a manual trans where only 1% will for the V6 version. If true, then it would make sense to do it that way.

The fact that you said "Even if people won't buy it" makes me shake my head. Car companies are in the business of making money not throwing it away. Why build a car for people that won't buy it?

Again, spot on in all respects, and especially the bolded.