Author Topic: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here  (Read 8833 times)

Offline random006

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2018, 09:31:14 am »
The only time I use one on my Mazda 3 is when some idiots box me into a parallel parking spot. 

Other than that, it is particularly useless in the winter since -due to its unprotected location and design- you'll drive 5 minutes and it'll be covered in muck. 

I also wonder what this means for the likes of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. who have their backup cameras included in VERY expensive option packages.  Will those option packages now become (HORROR!) standard?

Exactly.

Again, I ask my question about keeping it clean.  See my post above.

As to the Lexus and Equinox, where are they mounted and how high are they off the ground compared to a sedan or hatch?
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Offline OliverD

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2018, 09:36:09 am »
The only time I use one on my Mazda 3 is when some idiots box me into a parallel parking spot. 

Other than that, it is particularly useless in the winter since -due to its unprotected location and design- you'll drive 5 minutes and it'll be covered in muck. 

I also wonder what this means for the likes of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. who have their backup cameras included in VERY expensive option packages.  Will those option packages now become (HORROR!) standard?

No, they'll just make the camera standard, as on the 2019 Minis.

Offline SKYMTL

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2018, 10:00:26 am »
The only time I use one on my Mazda 3 is when some idiots box me into a parallel parking spot. 

Other than that, it is particularly useless in the winter since -due to its unprotected location and design- you'll drive 5 minutes and it'll be covered in muck. 

I also wonder what this means for the likes of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. who have their backup cameras included in VERY expensive option packages.  Will those option packages now become (HORROR!) standard?

Exactly.

Again, I ask my question about keeping it clean.  See my post above.

As to the Lexus and Equinox, where are they mounted and how high are they off the ground compared to a sedan or hatch?

I'm not 100% sure about newer models but I know the slightly older VW's had a pretty genius location for it.  Then again, its VW so the actuator will likely break after a few uses.  ;) 


Offline Mike

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2018, 10:06:00 am »
I never get the hate towards mandating more safety tech. Why not rip off the side mirrors, turn signals,  and seatbelts while we're at it.  :P

Most drivers do not have the skill or interest to be as good as many on this forum. It's not a knock, it's just not their interest. Just like I don't aspire to be a great chef when I make dinner, or a fashion icon when I get dressed, or a fantastic landscaper when I (finally) cut the lawn. These are daily tasks in life I need to complete, but I'm not passionate about, so why do more than I have to? Driving is my interest so I aspire to be better at it and may not need as many assists - but others do.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2018, 10:10:36 am »


The only time I use one on my Mazda 3 is when some idiots box me into a parallel parking spot. 

Other than that, it is particularly useless in the winter since -due to its unprotected location and design- you'll drive 5 minutes and it'll be covered in muck. 

I also wonder what this means for the likes of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. who have their backup cameras included in VERY expensive option packages.  Will those option packages now become (HORROR!) standard?

Exactly.

Again, I ask my question about keeping it clean.  See my post above.

As to the Lexus and Equinox, where are they mounted and how high are they off the ground compared to a sedan or hatch?

On my Lexus it's under the edge of the trunk lip. You can sorta see it between the reverse lights in the pic below.

How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline rrocket

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2018, 10:14:04 am »
I never get the hate towards mandating more safety tech. Why not rip off the side mirrors, turn signals,  and seatbelts while we're at it.  [emoji14]

Most drivers do not have the skill or interest to be as good as many on this forum. It's not a knock, it's just not their interest. Just like I don't aspire to be a great chef when I make dinner, or a fashion icon when I get dressed, or a fantastic landscaper when I (finally) cut the lawn. These are daily tasks in life I need to complete, but I'm not passionate about, so why do more than I have to? Driving is my interest so I aspire to be better at it and may not need as many assists - but others do.
I'd say seatbelts save many thousands of lives per year.

A reverse camera...when you already have a rear view mirror, 2 side mirrors and a big ole back window? Not so much IMO.

Offline Mike

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2018, 10:16:34 am »
I never get the hate towards mandating more safety tech. Why not rip off the side mirrors, turn signals,  and seatbelts while we're at it.  [emoji14]

Most drivers do not have the skill or interest to be as good as many on this forum. It's not a knock, it's just not their interest. Just like I don't aspire to be a great chef when I make dinner, or a fashion icon when I get dressed, or a fantastic landscaper when I (finally) cut the lawn. These are daily tasks in life I need to complete, but I'm not passionate about, so why do more than I have to? Driving is my interest so I aspire to be better at it and may not need as many assists - but others do.
I'd say seatbelts save many thousands of lives per year.

A reverse camera...when you already have a rear view mirror, 2 side mirrors and a big ole back window? Not so much IMO.

Agreed, but saving even 10 lives a year is worth it.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2018, 10:17:57 am »
I never get the hate towards mandating more safety tech. Why not rip off the side mirrors, turn signals,  and seatbelts while we're at it.  [emoji14]

Most drivers do not have the skill or interest to be as good as many on this forum. It's not a knock, it's just not their interest. Just like I don't aspire to be a great chef when I make dinner, or a fashion icon when I get dressed, or a fantastic landscaper when I (finally) cut the lawn. These are daily tasks in life I need to complete, but I'm not passionate about, so why do more than I have to? Driving is my interest so I aspire to be better at it and may not need as many assists - but others do.
I'd say seatbelts save many thousands of lives per year.

A reverse camera...when you already have a rear view mirror, 2 side mirrors and a big ole back window? Not so much IMO.

Agreed, but saving even 10 lives a year is worth it.
There are better ways to save 10 lives per year IMO.

Offline Dante

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2018, 10:18:30 am »
The only time I use one on my Mazda 3 is when some idiots box me into a parallel parking spot. 

Other than that, it is particularly useless in the winter since -due to its unprotected location and design- you'll drive 5 minutes and it'll be covered in muck. 

I also wonder what this means for the likes of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. who have their backup cameras included in VERY expensive option packages.  Will those option packages now become (HORROR!) standard?

Exactly.

Again, I ask my question about keeping it clean.  See my post above.

As to the Lexus and Equinox, where are they mounted and how high are they off the ground compared to a sedan or hatch?

I'm not 100% sure about newer models but I know the slightly older VW's had a pretty genius location for it.  Then again, its VW so the actuator will likely break after a few uses.  ;) 



Current Golf still has it. Mine still works after 2 years of daily use. Noticed the new Tiguan does not have it so it's not a default setup for all VWs.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2018, 10:20:59 am »
Even with my GTI which has great rearward visibility some cars are very hard to see the front of due to how low they are. I can only imagine how much worse this is for CUV/SUVs.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2018, 10:30:20 am »
Even with my GTI which has great rearward visibility some cars are very hard to see the front of due to how low they are. I can only imagine how much worse this is for CUV/SUVs.
But this doesn't sound like a true safety issue to me.

Sounds more like preventing your bumper from being nicked. :)

Offline Dante

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2018, 10:32:15 am »
I never get the hate towards mandating more safety tech. Why not rip off the side mirrors, turn signals,  and seatbelts while we're at it.  :P

Most drivers do not have the skill or interest to be as good as many on this forum. It's not a knock, it's just not their interest. Just like I don't aspire to be a great chef when I make dinner, or a fashion icon when I get dressed, or a fantastic landscaper when I (finally) cut the lawn. These are daily tasks in life I need to complete, but I'm not passionate about, so why do more than I have to? Driving is my interest so I aspire to be better at it and may not need as many assists - but others do.

Not one of the "haters" of basic safety tech but this should be combined with proper driver training which is much cheaper/effective than any safety tech. Safety tech is only a mitigation of the risks created by the lack of driving skills/responsibility.

The difference between driving and the examples you provided is that you will not kill/harm anyone if you are a lousy cook, dresser or landscaper. This is not the case with driving a vehicle on the public roads.  Proper driving skills/training should be mandatory. You can't acquire the required skills, take the bus or calll Uber.

Offline tooscoops

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2018, 10:47:37 am »
again, I'm just using the CVP van as my default because of how many I sell, and how cash strapped these customers are. would they like a camera? yes. is it worth having to take out a basic radio that costs nothing and rarely brakes, to put in a touchscreen, a camera, and all the wiring and such required?

if I use the cheapest one of the van screens, on ebay from china or something, you are looking at 800 (I find that is a good way to guess the actual cost... find the lowest price from 3rd parties with knock offs as they price it just to the point the original manufacturer can't touch). add the camera and you add more cost and complexity... even if it is just a grand more in total, it just means that money will be passed on to the final consumer... that is increasing the price by nearly 5%... since I see these buyers every day, I like to think I know a bit about them.... that 5% is a huge hit to them.

most of the people in this forum have cars that already have it due to price points and such, so they aren't affected... easy for us to say "put it on everything! even if it just saves one life!" go to some frugal site where they are all buying 6k cars or maxing out budgets on versa notes and such and finding ways to save even 1% on a car and they will feel very different.

in the end, I like to think my perspective is pretty accurate to many car buyers... yes, they want toys.... but more important is spending less money. priority is spending less today, secondary is spending less down the road... adding a camera makes both situations worse.

I'm not going to picket or anything, as change will come no matter what. but those who think this is a great thing period, end of story, are blind to the realities of the majority.
i used to be addicted to soap, but i'm clean now

Offline tortoise

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2018, 10:57:21 am »
I didn't think I would use my backup camera as I am used to the truck and can back into spaces/parallel park with ease.   But I used it all the time.  I like the wide field of view for backing out of the driveway (we have a lot of pedestrian traffic on our street) and it makes parallel parking a breeze. 

Seeing as most cars come standard with one I see this being a non-issue for the most part.  And as for the CVP, how much longer are those going to be available?
Only the slow and dim know where they're going in life, and seldom is it worth the trip. - Tom Robbins.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2018, 10:59:52 am »
Even with my GTI which has great rearward visibility some cars are very hard to see the front of due to how low they are. I can only imagine how much worse this is for CUV/SUVs.
But this doesn't sound like a true safety issue to me.

Sounds more like preventing your bumper from being nicked. :)

Agree. Personally I see it as added convenience. If I was to buy a SUV I'd want one just because. For a Miata, nope.

Offline Weels

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2018, 11:12:43 am »
Camera is a nice to have convenience
Even in the MX-5 it would be nice - with the top up (which is rare) there's some pretty big blind spots.  The cross-traffic alert it does have takes care of that though.

Offline SKYMTL

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2018, 11:12:52 am »


The only time I use one on my Mazda 3 is when some idiots box me into a parallel parking spot. 

Other than that, it is particularly useless in the winter since -due to its unprotected location and design- you'll drive 5 minutes and it'll be covered in muck. 

I also wonder what this means for the likes of MB, BMW, Audi, etc. who have their backup cameras included in VERY expensive option packages.  Will those option packages now become (HORROR!) standard?

Exactly.

Again, I ask my question about keeping it clean.  See my post above.

As to the Lexus and Equinox, where are they mounted and how high are they off the ground compared to a sedan or hatch?

On my Lexus it's under the edge of the trunk lip. You can sorta see it between the reverse lights in the pic below.



Mine is in the same location.  Not sure if you actually have winter over there or the Mazda 3 creates some sort of vortex behind its trunk that causes an issue, but its constantly dirty!

Offline random006

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2018, 11:22:59 am »
SKYMTL's post lends itself exactly to my points about the venturi effect and relative camera placement heights (ground to camera distance):

Post #1 (reply #2 in this thread):
All it takes is:
-  splash off another vehicle,
-  winter tire spin off,
- venturi effect snow drifts (https://www.evilution.co.uk/files/info/venturi3.jpg)
-  or even backing into a soft yet high snowbank to make a mess of the rear of your car.

The above also applies for dirt on the road.


Post #2:
As to the Lexus and Equinox, where are they mounted and how high are they off the ground compared to a sedan or hatch?


I have no disagreement with the technology; I've seen it used to great effect in many cars, including Tesla sedans.  I could have used it a few times backing out of a sloped driveway while small children walk behind my Sorento.

What I do have are questions as to the practicality of the units in various situations, vehicles and weather conditions.  Let's face it, if a camera lens on a vehicle with a tiny rear window gets dirty, no amount of back end smarts is going to help.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2018, 11:26:50 am »
Camera is a nice to have convenience
Even in the MX-5 it would be nice - with the top up (which is rare) there's some pretty big blind spots.  The cross-traffic alert it does have takes care of that though.

Look, the camera is necessary in the 'Maro so I"m glad to have it but we're also talking about the worst sight lines in the industry. Jesus, if I can backup my huge truck into my garage or into any spot with no camera surely the greater population can manage in their sedans and cute utes.
I think your wife nicked your TL, didn't she?

But yea..I find this more a convenience item than safety.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Backing News: Compulsory Cameras are Here
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2018, 11:28:37 am »
SKYMTL's post lends itself exactly to my points about the venturi effect and relative camera placement heights (ground to camera distance):

Post #1 (reply #2 in this thread):
All it takes is:
-  splash off another vehicle,
-  winter tire spin off,
- venturi effect snow drifts (https://www.evilution.co.uk/files/info/venturi3.jpg)
-  or even backing into a soft yet high snowbank to make a mess of the rear of your car.

The above also applies for dirt on the road.


Post #2:
As to the Lexus and Equinox, where are they mounted and how high are they off the ground compared to a sedan or hatch?


I have no disagreement with the technology; I've seen it used to great effect in many cars, including Tesla sedans.  I could have used it a few times backing out of a sloped driveway while small children walk behind my Sorento.

What I do have are questions as to the practicality of the units in various situations, vehicles and weather conditions.  Let's face it, if a camera lens on a vehicle with a tiny rear window gets dirty, no amount of back end smarts is going to help.
My car camera doesn't seem to get dirty much driving.

When I clear the show off the car before driving, I make sure to wipe the camera with my thumb in case.