Author Topic: 2019 Subaru Forester  (Read 11546 times)

Offline OliverD

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2019 Subaru Forester
« on: March 28, 2018, 02:12:55 pm »
No more turbo, no more manual, and standard EyeSight. No real surprises here.





Quote from: Press Release
ALL-NEW 2019 SUBARU FORESTER® DEBUTS AT NEW YORK INTERNATIONAL AUTO SHOW

•    Roomiest, most capable Forester to date
•    Standard EyeSight® Driver Assist Technology
•    Subaru Global Platform: quietness, stability, agility
•    Available new segment-exclusive DriverFocus safety technology
•    Updated 2.5-liter SUBARU BOXER® engine
•    New Sport model with unique exterior and interior
•    Standard Subaru Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive
•    Panoramic moonroof

NEW YORK, March 28, 2018 – Subaru of America Inc., debuted today the all-new 2019 Forester at the New York International Auto Show. The fifth generation of the best-selling SUV introduces the roomiest, most capable and most versatile Forester ever made and also features groundbreaking new safety technology.

The 2019 Forester is built on the Subaru Global Platform to deliver significantly higher levels of driving pleasure, agility, crash protection, ride comfort and quietness. Arriving at Subaru retailers later this year, the all-new Forester will be available in standard, Premium, Limited, Touring and new Sport trim levels. All are powered by an enhanced direct-injection, 182 hp 2.5-liter four-cylinder BOXER engine featuring Auto Stop/Start and paired with a standard Lineartronic CVT (continuously variable transmission).  Also standard on all trim levels is Subaru’s legendary Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive.

For 2019, all Foresters come standard with the award-winning EyeSight Driver Assist Technology. The top-of-line Touring debuts the segment-exclusive DriverFocus safety technology which offers yet another layer of safety and convenience for the driver.  The system can alert the driver of fatigue or distraction while on the road as well as automatically adjust many driver settings at start-up. 

Segment First DriverFocus Safety Technology

With DriverFocus, Subaru is taking on one of the biggest issues in the automotive industry; distracted driving.  Each day in the United States, more than 1,000 people are injured in crashes reported to have involved a distracted driver. *  As an industry leader in safety, Subaru has developed DriverFocus, a state-of-the-art system to help address distracted driving for both new and experienced drivers.

DriverFocus is a driver monitoring system that uses facial recognition software to identify signs of driver fatigue or driver distraction. DriverFocus works with Subaru’s award-winning EyeSight Driver Assist Technology to reduce the chance of an accident. And for added convenience, DriverFocus can also recognize up to five drivers and remember their presets for seat position, climate, infotainment and more.
The all-new Forester is the first in its segment, and among the first vehicles in the industry to incorporate technology that can address the important societal issue of distracted driving.  The feature will be standard on Touring models.

Added Power and Efficiency

All Foresters are powered by a new version of the 2.5-liter SUBARU BOXER four-cylinder engine, now with direct fuel injection and higher compression, along with active valve control system (AVCS) on the exhaust side. The new engine produces 182 hp and 176 lb-ft of torque, versus 170 hp and 174 lb-ft in the previous Forester, for a boost in everyday performance and responsiveness.

The 2019 Forester comes standard with Lineartronic CVT. The new powertrain not only yields quicker acceleration than the previous Forester, but also up to 33 mpg highway fuel economy (manufacturer’s estimate, pending EPA certification). On Sport and Touring variants, the CVT features a manual mode that simulates a seven-speed manual transmission, using steering wheel paddle shift control switches.

Adding more flexibility for driving conditions, is a standard driver-selectable SI-DRIVE. SI-DRIVE is a powertrain performance management system that allows the driver to tailor the vehicle’s throttle characteristics by choosing between “Intelligent” and “Sport” modes (Sport Sharp on Forester Sport). “Intelligent” mode helps smooth out accelerator inputs for fuel saving, while “Sport” mode tunes the throttle to emphasize performance. 

Signature Subaru Design

The 2019 Forester debuts a more rugged style that showcases Subaru’s new design language while retaining a strong family resemblance to the rest of the brand’s portfolio.  The exterior has shoulder lines that follow around the pillars to emphasize height and strength. Prominent wheel arches emphasize the standard Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive system’s functionality. Front, side and rear underguards are standard on all models, with color finish according to trim line. New LED headlights are standard on all models. High-gloss black or silver trim highlights the Forester’s premium appearance, accentuated by such new colors as Jasper Green Metallic, Horizon Blue Pearl and Crimson Red Pearl.
Forester’s new design brings added function. The wheelbase is increased to 105.1 in. from 103.9 in., with the gain benefitting rear seat legroom, which is now 39.4-in., a 1.4-in. increase. Gains in headroom, hip and shoulder room further bolster passenger comfort and a feeling of spaciousness in the cabin.

The brand’s signature hexagonal grille incorporates active grille shutters, which optimize aerodynamics to help reduce fuel consumption. Wider rear door openings and a steep C-pillar angle make ingress/egress and installing a child seat easier. All Forester models feature lower body side cladding, which helps protect against mud, rocks and other road debris.

The new Forester design maintains outstanding outward visibility, a hallmark of Subaru models. Strategically designed pillars and generous glass area ensure an excellent all-around view from inside, and all models feature a standard rear vision camera.

The 2019 Forester design increases cargo space to 76.1 cu. ft. with the 60:40 split rear seatbacks lowered, a gain of 1.9 cu. ft. The load floor sits flatter, and the cargo area’s squared-off shape has been further optimized for ease of carrying large objects. Notably, the rear gate opening maximum width is now 51.3-in. wide, a 5.3-in. increase over the previous model and up to 8-in. wider than on some competitive SUVs. For example, with the 2019 Forester, it will be possible to load a full-size golf bag sideways without tilting it. A power rear gate is standard on Limited and Touring trim levels and available as an option for Premium and Sport.

Roof rails, standard on all but the base model, allow for a number of Subaru Genuine Accessories for carrying items such as bicycles and kayaks.  New tie-down hooks integrated into the rails, on Sport and Touring trims, allow ropes to be tied down more easily and securely.

New Forester Sport

Inspired by the needs of outdoor enthusiasts, the 2019 Forester Sport joins the line with unique appearance elements and specially enhanced standard equipment. A Sport grille with black gloss finish frame, black-finish 18-in. wheels and rear roof spoiler give Forester Sport a rugged look, while orange accents on the black underguards and roof rail mounts add a modern, youthful touch. The interior is a unique dark gray material with orange stitching throughout that is exclusive to the Sport model.

The Forester Sport exclusively employs a version of Subaru Intelligent Drive (SI-DRIVE) with Intelligent and Sport Sharp modes and the Lineartronic CVT features a seven-speed manual mode with steering wheel paddle-shift control switches. Building on the standard equipment of the Forester Premium trim, the Sport also features a high-grade instrument panel combination meter and multi-function display, LED fog lights, High Beam Assist, exterior mirrors with integrated turn signals, Keyless Access with Push-Button Start and PIN Code Access and the All-Weather Package (heated front seats, heated exterior mirrors, windshield wiper de-icer).

A standard cargo area tray helps protect the interior. For added convenience when loading or unloading equipment at night, the Sport features a cargo area LED light with auto-off and a rear gate LED flood light that illuminates the area around the rear gate when it is opened.

Family comfort and quiet space

The roomiest Forester cabin yet is also the quietest, thanks to the Subaru Global Platform’s inherent resistance to noise, vibration and harshness (NVH). Road noise is significantly reduced and Subaru has worked to tune out certain frequencies to make conversation or listening to music at highway speeds more comfortable.

Forester’s interior has been designed for both greater passenger comfort and increased durability in everyday and recreational usage. New front seats, are constructed to enhance comfort on long drives. A new Electronic Parking Brake frees up console space by eliminating the traditional parking brake handle.

All Forester models now feature standard automatic climate control (dual-zone on Limited and Touring models), and the available heated front seats feature three-stage control versus two-stage before. The Touring trim adds new heated rear seats for 2019. Keyless Access with Push Button Start is standard on Sport, Limited and Touring trims and optional for Premium. In conjunction with this feature, SUBARU STARLINK® Connected Services now offers available Remote Engine Start via the MySubaru smartphone app.  Climate controls can also be set on the app when Remote Engine Start is activated.  Many other connected services such as Wi-Fi and Concierge services are newly available on Forester for 2019 model year.

Numerous new details throughout the Forester reflect the Subaru brand’s meticulous study of real-world customer usage. The material used for the cargo area floor, sides and rear gate interior trim offer a textured surface to resist dirt. The robust material also resists scuffing, such as when carrying camping equipment or other outdoor gear, and is easily cleaned. PVC material used on the bottoms of the front seat backs likewise resists scuffing and the material is easily cleaned. Pockets on the front seatbacks are now divided to more easily organize items such as magazines and electronic devices.

Legendary Subaru Value Gets Even Better

The 2019 Forester is the best-equipped ever, with the standard model adding features such as EyeSight, LED headlights, Auto Start/Stop, SI-DRIVE Engine Performance management, Active Torque Vectoring, Automatic Climate Control, Electronic Parking Brake, Trailer Stability Assist and Welcome Lighting.

Each trim level adds more features and amenities, while maintaining all the vehicle’s rugged capability. The 2019 Touring is the most luxurious Forester ever, with standard and exclusive features including 10-way power driver’s seat, new 8-way power front passenger seat, new heated rear seats and heated steering wheel. Also new for 2019, the exterior mirrors have a two-position memory function synchronized to the driver’s seat position memory and in addition tilt downward when reverse gear is engaged, to aid in parking maneuvers.  A new power rear lock button is available on the rear liftgate that will close and lock the gate and all doors on the vehicle.

Adventurous Spirit and Function

The 2019 Forester continues the model’s tradition of offering the optimal blend of SUV capability with car-like ride and handling with legendary Subaru Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive.  This key technology provides stable, secure driving for young families and all-around capability for outdoors enthusiasts. Subaru’s all-wheel drive system actively monitors acceleration, deceleration, cornering and traction to transfer power to the wheels with the best grip.

Active Torque Vectoring, first introduced on the brand’s iconic WRX ® and WRX STI® performance models, is also standard on all 2019 Foresters. The Forester base model features standard 17-in. steel wheels, while the Premium gets standard 17-in. alloy wheels. Sport, Limited and Touring models ride on 18-in. wheels with each trim featuring its own wheel design.

Forester offers a generous 8.7 inches of ground clearance, which is more than most competitors and allows for confident off-pavement driving. Yet, the 2019 Forester maintains an easy step-in height.

For handling difficult driving conditions such as snow or mud, Forester Premium, Sport, Limited and Touring come standard with driver-selectable X-Mode® with Hill Descent Control.  When engaged, X-Mode optimizes control of the engine, transmission shift pattern, Active AWD front/rear clutch force, brakes and the Vehicle Dynamics Control system to optimize wheel control on slippery surfaces and steep inclines. New for 2019, the Sport, Limited and Touring models come standard with a dual-mode version of X-Mode that offers Snow/Dirt and Deep Snow/Mud modes for even more capability to go virtually wherever necessary. 

Subaru Safety Throughout

The Forester’s new platform integrates the latest version of the Subaru ring-shaped reinforcement frame design, proven over nearly two decades to provide excellent occupant collision protection. All versions of the 2019 Forester come standard with EyeSight Driver Assist Technology that includes Automatic Pre-Collision Braking, Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Departure and Sway Warning, Lane Keep Assist, Pre-Collision Throttle Management and Lead Vehicle Start Alert.

Other available driver-assist technologies include Reverse Automatic Braking and Blind Spot Detection with Lane Change Assist and Rear Cross Traffic Alert. Reverse Automatic Braking can apply the vehicle’s brakes if an obstacle is detected while reversing.

Forester Sport, Limited and Touring include High Beam Assist, and Limited and Touring also add Steering Responsive Headlights., New for the 2019 Forester, the Tire Pressure Monitor System (TPMS) now displays pressure for individual tires. New standard Trailer Stability Assist (TSA) utilizes yaw sensors to monitor trailer sway and then can brake individual wheels to stabilize the vehicle and trailer.

A power locking fuel door is integrated into the new automatic power door lock/unlock system as standard. The system locks all doors, the rear gate and fuel door once the vehicle is driven over 13 mph, and the owner can set locking/unlocking preferences.

Inside, the Forester fills out its safety roster with the Subaru Advanced Frontal Airbags, a driver’s knee airbag, standard front side pelvis/torso airbags and side curtain airbags that offer front and rear outboard seat coverage.

SUBARU STARLINK™ In-Vehicle Technology

The 2019 Forester offers the latest touchscreen SUBARU STARLINK multimedia systems with standard features including Apple CarPlay™, Android™ Auto and SiriusXM® services (subscription required) with Bluetooth® hands-free phone connectivity and audio streaming. Music, news, podcasts and much more can be enjoyed with standard Aha™, Pandora® and STARLINK app integration. A built-in, voice-activated navigation system powered by TomTom with an 8” high resolution touchscreen is also available.  The standard Forester comes with the 6.5” Multimedia system, while higher trim levels feature the 8.0” Multimedia Plus and 8.0” Multimedia Navigation systems.

SUBARU STARLINK Connected Services now offers remote engine start (on models equipped with Keyless Access and Push-Button Start); concierge service; anti-theft vehicle immobilizer with flashing vehicle security lights; young driver safety functions including geofencing, speed alert and curfew; and firmware updates over the air.

Also available, the Safety Plus package offers SOS emergency assistance, enhanced roadside assistance, automatic collision notification, maintenance notifications, monthly vehicle health report, and diagnostic alerts. The Safety Plus & Security Plus upgrade package adds stolen vehicle recovery service, vehicle security alarm notification, remote lock/unlock, remote horn and lights and remote vehicle locator.
















Offline tortoise

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2018, 02:28:39 pm »
2.5L H4.  CVT.  Hard pass.

But for the majority of the people it will probably be just fine.  Subaru didn't go crazy with the styling and is adding a lot of standard safety features that people will buy. 

Unfortunately, I think Toyota just out-Forestered the Forester with the new Rav4.
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Offline tpl

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2018, 03:34:35 pm »
Considering how big the Forester is compared to,say, the 2007 that we looked at I think 250 bhp and 300 lbft might be nicer to drive...and with a DSG transmission as well.


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Offline Dante

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2018, 04:01:33 pm »
Not that I had any hope that the CVT will go away and I'll be thrilled by the design of the new Forester but still, I looked forward to this unveiling... kind of disappointing in the end.

I'm sure it will do well in the market, but not for me. Back to the drawing board. The are some rumors on a new Mazda SUV out of the joint plant with Toyota... Could be a CX7? Something slightly bigger than CX5 and smaller than CX9? That will do...

Offline G.Bombay

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2018, 04:12:40 pm »
So basically the same as the previous Forester only now even more boring.....reminds me of their commercial 2011 Subaru Mediocredy only SUV version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsfd_h4G1js

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2018, 04:13:15 pm »
yawn

Oh Subaru, you used to be so cool...and now after years of trying desperately to fit in...you finally do, and are just as boring and vanilla as the rest of them.
If driving an Alfa does not restore vitality to your soul, then just pass the hospital and park at the morgue to save everyone time.

Now drives a Jaaaaaaag...and thus will not pay for anything during an outing...but it is OK, because....I drive a Jaaaaaag.

Offline Noto

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2018, 04:36:04 pm »
No more turbo, ... No real surprises here.
You had some inkling that the turbo would be killed off?  That's a complete surprise to me.  The #1 selling point to us back in 2011 was the XT (our other options were the Tiguan and the (then I6) BMW X3...).  We hated the 2.5i, and I would never buy such an anemic device.

Our Subaru future is now officially dead unless we need a minivan (Ascent - which we don't - we like compact).  Good job, Subaru.  Fanboi gone.

...unless a Crosstrek XT comes out (yup, I'll keep dreaming, knowing it'll never, ever happen).  Here's to hoping our Camellia doesn't die out, cuz there's no suitable replacement.  What a shame.

Offline whaddaiknow

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2018, 05:52:19 pm »
Hard Pass. No surprises here. The 2.0T in the XT at least offered something that is now gone.
The Android auto is finally standard but when I was buying the 2017 back 18 months ago, I was told my '17 was only a software upgrade from it. So that's too little to late.
The 2.5 is loud as it is and now will be even louder with DI added to it. Less than bullet-proof boxer engine now has DI added to it! What could possibly go wrong?
Anyway, Subaru switched places with Toyota. Toyota is now funky, Subaru - ultimately bland.

Offline johngenx

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2018, 06:16:51 pm »
Yeah, completely agree.  The RAV was the "safe and boring" choice and now it destroys the Forester on being modern and interesting looking.  I do wish Toyota would make the torque-vectoring AWD standard, and we might see that a year or two into the model run.  I don't mind the CVT in the Subaru, but the 8-spd "normal" automatic in the RAV is greatly preferred by me.  Now that the odd shifting/rev pattern in the transverse 8-spd has been sorted, it's a sweet transmission.  I like that it's just a little snappier on the shifts than the old 6-spd.

Add in the expected better long term reliability of the RAV, and I'd take the RAV, hands down.

Offline Noto

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2018, 10:06:50 am »
I just don't see any basis for the Forester being better anymore over the Rav4 now that it's 2.5L awesome4 to 2.5L maintainancenightmarepancake4.

AWD on soft roaders just don't matter enough for me to say "I'm sticking to Subaru".

It's funny - before, so many said "we can put up with Subaru's quirky, low-rent interior because it's mechanically awesome."  Now it's a base motor only with a CVT...I fail to see any advantage except on extreme snow days, of which we get what, 3 a year at most now in southern Ontario?

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2018, 10:39:03 am »
I just don't see any basis for the Forester being better anymore over the Rav4 now that it's 2.5L awesome4 to 2.5L maintainancenightmarepancake4.

AWD on soft roaders just don't matter enough for me to say "I'm sticking to Subaru".

It's funny - before, so many said "we can put up with Subaru's quirky, low-rent interior because it's mechanically awesome."  Now it's a base motor only with a CVT...I fail to see any advantage except on extreme snow days, of which we get what, 3 a year at most now in southern Ontario?
even then, the Subie AWD is not going to make the difference to justify the compromises you pay for

any CUV with AWD and good rubber can make short work of some of the worst snow days

Offline Noto

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2018, 10:51:25 am »
even then, the Subie AWD is not going to make the difference to justify the compromises you pay for

any CUV with AWD and good rubber can make short work of some of the worst snow days
I don't think the Forester will have any "compromises" now - it's thoroughly modern.

...but it no longer has any charm or excitement.  The base Forester might have been nearly as vanilla as the old Rav4, but the XT injected some WOO HOO into it.

BUT, I disagree that "any CUV with AWD and good rubber can make short work..."  If you drive a Forester with good rubber in the winter vs a CX-5 with the same, good rubber, the Subaru will still shine in terms of stability and ease of driving.  I just don't think the difference is as big as it once was, and I don't think that Subaru stands out at all anymore.  It's just a different styling exercise compared to its competitors.  Shame.

Offline SKYMTL

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2018, 11:32:07 am »
Hard pass here too. 

But....wait......ORANGE ACCENTS!!! 

Nope, still a hard pass. 

Offline EV-Light

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2018, 11:51:42 am »
even then, the Subie AWD is not going to make the difference to justify the compromises you pay for

any CUV with AWD and good rubber can make short work of some of the worst snow days
I don't think the Forester will have any "compromises" now - it's thoroughly modern.


Our definitions of modern aren’t the same...
This looks like a refresh, not a new model...the interior looks exactly the same and it looks very OUTDATED.

I predict Subaru will have a hard time selling these given the new and current competition.



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Offline Dante

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2018, 12:46:56 pm »
I think those previously  willing to put up with Subaru's quirkiness because it's mechanically awesome weren't necessarily strictly thinking turbo and MT and if they were, they were in insignificant numbers in the grand scheme of things.

I think the Forester got rid of the "quirky" image a decade ago (MY2008) and it's  been a legitimate mainstream offering since with great sales success - smart business move. For every single Subaru loyalist they may have lost due to this shift, they probably gained a whole lot of new customers.

Getting rid of the XT and manual for this gen, will probably positively affect Subaru's bottom line (losses will be far outweighed by gains) despite further alienating/losing few more customers.

Offline Noto

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2018, 02:07:42 pm »
This looks like a refresh, not a new model...the interior looks exactly the same and it looks very OUTDATED.

I predict Subaru will have a hard time selling these given the new and current competition.
Literally everything you said above is incorrect.

I think the Forester got rid of the "quirky" image a decade ago (MY2008)
Also disagree.  Perhaps in the 2014 redesign, but the 2009-2013 was still pretty faking quirky.

I think those previously  willing to put up with Subaru's quirkiness because it's mechanically awesome weren't necessarily strictly thinking turbo and MT and if they were, they were in insignificant numbers in the grand scheme of things.
I reluctantly agree with you here.  I'm just livid that I have no new replacement/upgrade option for my wife's car.  Hell, I wrote an article about wanting to upgrade with the 2017.  It may be smart to pick up a leftover 2018 XT now if I can get a good deal on it.

Canadian Black Book suggests ours is worth $13-15k on trade-in, and $16,400 for private sale.  Paid ~$39k taxes in, driven for 7 full years at this point...$3,400/year, compared to $6,500/year based on the lease payments when new.  Pretty decent, I'd say.  Might be a good time to sell despite having just bought new tires.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 02:11:48 pm by No-san »

Offline OliverD

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2018, 02:13:21 pm »
I think the Forester got rid of the "quirky" image a decade ago (MY2008)
Also disagree.  Perhaps in the 2014 redesign, but the 2009-2013 was still pretty faking quirky.

Not really. Pre 2009 the Forester was basically a taller, slightly lifted station wagon. The 2009 redesign was rather generic and made it look a lot more like its competitors.

Offline Noto

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2018, 02:18:23 pm »
Exterior, sure...but did you see that interior?!



Still very behind the times.  Not that the Rav4 was "tops", but much better at least:


Offline pi314

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2018, 02:30:44 pm »
This looks like a refresh, not a new model...the interior looks exactly the same and it looks very OUTDATED.

I predict Subaru will have a hard time selling these given the new and current competition.
Literally everything you said above is incorrect.

I think the Forester got rid of the "quirky" image a decade ago (MY2008)
Also disagree.  Perhaps in the 2014 redesign, but the 2009-2013 was still pretty faking quirky.

I think those previously  willing to put up with Subaru's quirkiness because it's mechanically awesome weren't necessarily strictly thinking turbo and MT and if they were, they were in insignificant numbers in the grand scheme of things.
I reluctantly agree with you here.  I'm just livid that I have no new replacement/upgrade option for my wife's car.  Hell, I wrote an article about wanting to upgrade with the 2017.  It may be smart to pick up a leftover 2018 XT now if I can get a good deal on it.

Canadian Black Book suggests ours is worth $13-15k on trade-in, and $16,400 for private sale.  Paid ~$39k taxes in, driven for 7 full years at this point...$3,400/year, compared to $6,500/year based on the lease payments when new.  Pretty decent, I'd say.  Might be a good time to sell despite having just bought new tires.

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Offline Dante

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2018, 02:40:16 pm »

I think the Forester got rid of the "quirky" image a decade ago (MY2008)
Also disagree.  Perhaps in the 2014 redesign, but the 2009-2013 was still pretty faking quirky.


You've been disagreeing quite a bit with me in the past few days, which is fine, but I have to call you on this one (friendly).

The raised wagons pre-2009 were quirky but the 2009-2013, while not cutting-edge or anything like that (still had 4AT and they were pretty low in terms of feature content and tech), they were as mainstream as any other offering at that time. They put Subaru on the sales growth path as soon as they came out which is very telling on how that shift has been perceived by the buying public.

But we can agree to disagree I guess and leave it at that.