Topic: Ontario Hydro rates

[Railton]

Is it any wonder our hydro rates are increasing beyond comfortable limits for most with this kind of bull$hit going on.
Railton
http://www.moneyville.ca/article/956001--power-companies-paid-millions-not-to-generate-elecrtricity?bn=1

[mrthompson]

Yes, and exorbitant executive send-off packages.  Fack. 

Time to go off the grid!  (Wishful thinking.)

[Erik]

Sadly, that is just a drop in the bucket. More a large scale mis-management of our Hydro resources by various provincial over the past few decades. Add to it the moronic "green" energy programs going into place (we are going to be paying people 80 cents per kw/h to generate solar electricity, while charging less than 1/10th that to the end user. Hmmm),  and stuff like the articles lists are just a drop in the bucket.

[tpl]

Time to elect a new provincial government who will get the coal fired plants working again and put shovels in the ground for a) some new nuclear and b) that fairly big hydro resource on the west side of James Bay...which currently is off the table as a few natives would have to be moved to make it practical.

[mrthompson]

Would smaller scale hydro projects, similar to those on the Trent-Severn Waterway, be a viable option?  Transmission costs are less when the power is generated close to where it's needed.

[tpl]

Would smaller scale hydro projects, similar to those on the Trent-Severn Waterway, be a viable option?  Transmission costs are less when the power is generated close to where it's needed.

They should be but having many projects multiplies the NIMBY factor and the 2 years to do an environmental impact statement factor.

Also I think "run of river" hydro ( no reservoirs behind the hydro generators)  may have problems in cold winters and droughts in summer.

Now small scale nuclear ( Nuclear Submarine scale power plants)  would also work in a distributed fashion but the Nimby/Environment factors multiply by 100 sadly.

[mrthompson]

Yeah, I suppose it was much easier to build the hydro stations 100 years ago.  "NIMBY."  "GTFO!"

[blur911]

Would smaller scale hydro projects, similar to those on the Trent-Severn Waterway, be a viable option?  Transmission costs are less when the power is generated close to where it's needed.

Several years ago Ontario Hydro shut down most of the small scale hydro projects, we used to have one at Kingston Mills, they shut down all the private producers.  The manufacturer I work at wanted to put in a co-gen plant as we needed steam and backup power.  Ontario Hydro said they wouldn't buy excess from us so that was the end of that idea. 

BTW, a friend has a 10kw solar setup, he has yet to make any profit or produce at the rate advertised.  
(I told him I could fix that with a bit of electronics and wiring, buy it at 10c/kwh and sell it back to them at 80, makes sense to me, but I'm evil)

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Power generation in Ontario was always a bit mucked up, but things got an order of magnitude worse after the breakup and sweetheart deals for private generators.

Until electricity rates hit 11¢/kWhr, you're still below much of the rest of Canada.

It is unfortunate that more research isn't done on thorium reactors. Much smaller footprint than traditional reactors and the reactant doesn't have a critical mass, and produces much lower quantities of waste material.

"One tonne of thorium can produce as much energy as 200 tonnes of uranium, or 3,500,000 tonnes of coal"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium#Thorium_as_a_nuclear_fuel

[EV Dan]

Would smaller scale hydro projects, similar to those on the Trent-Severn Waterway, be a viable option?  Transmission costs are less when the power is generated close to where it's needed.

Several years ago Ontario Hydro shut down most of the small scale hydro projects, we used to have one at Kingston Mills, they shut down all the private producers.  The manufacturer I work at wanted to put in a co-gen plant as we needed steam and backup power.  Ontario Hydro said they wouldn't buy excess from us so that was the end of that idea. 

BTW, a friend has a 10kw solar setup, he has yet to make any profit or produce at the rate advertised.  
(I told him I could fix that with a bit of electronics and wiring, buy it at 10c/kwh and sell it back to them at 80, makes sense to me, but I'm evil)

I think the advertised power rating assumes direct sun light  and not average weather conditions. Did he set it up on the ground or is it a roof install?

[blur911]

Would smaller scale hydro projects, similar to those on the Trent-Severn Waterway, be a viable option?  Transmission costs are less when the power is generated close to where it's needed.

Several years ago Ontario Hydro shut down most of the small scale hydro projects, we used to have one at Kingston Mills, they shut down all the private producers.  The manufacturer I work at wanted to put in a co-gen plant as we needed steam and backup power.  Ontario Hydro said they wouldn't buy excess from us so that was the end of that idea. 

BTW, a friend has a 10kw solar setup, he has yet to make any profit or produce at the rate advertised.  
(I told him I could fix that with a bit of electronics and wiring, buy it at 10c/kwh and sell it back to them at 80, makes sense to me, but I'm evil)

I think the advertised power rating assumes direct sun light  and not average weather conditions. Did he set it up on the ground or is it a roof install?

Ground based.  It sat there installed all last summer before Ontario Hydro got around to hooking it up after much prodding and complaints. 
He's never seen it go over 8kw ever.  With payments, interest, (cost was $80k) and rate of return, he's wondering if it was such a good idea.

[ArticSteve]

Ground based.  It sat there installed all last summer before Ontario Hydro got around to hooking it up after much prodding and complaints. 
He's never seen it go over 8kw ever.  With payments, interest, (cost was $80k) and rate of return, he's wondering if it was such a good idea.

Hydro only pays for what they use.  There are so many factors.  For example, all depends on what type of transmission line the unit is hooked up to.  However, its seems that ppl that got in very early negotiated their own contracts at considerable legal expense to themselves, but essentially those contracts guarantee X amount per kw regardless if it's used or not.

This comes from a guy who farmings about 8000 acres in and around Harriston, Palmerston and Listowel.  The GOV was encouraging owners of large agricultural structures to participate in the program.  However, he discovered that only buildings hooked to a Tier 3 transmission line would be viable, for what technical reasons I can't remember, and that the power produced must be purchased whether it's needed or not.  According to this fellow, any producer not on the right transmission line, and most are not, and who didn't get in early and get a guarantee that all power produced would be bought, will not break even.

I have a perfect roof for some solar panels.  But I am on a Tier 1 transmission line and would have no guarantee exactly how much Ontario Hydro would buy from me so it would be a lost cause financially.

However, if I get a plug in vehicle of some sort say in 4 years when Toyota or Nissan has got these vehicles better sorted out I'll be tempted to self install some sort of solar electric generating devise to charge the vehicle.

[blur911]

Ground based.  It sat there installed all last summer before Ontario Hydro got around to hooking it up after much prodding and complaints. 
He's never seen it go over 8kw ever.  With payments, interest, (cost was $80k) and rate of return, he's wondering if it was such a good idea.

Hydro only pays for what they use.  There are so many factors.  For example, all depends on what type of transmission line the unit is hooked up to.  However, its seems that ppl that got in very early negotiated their own contracts at considerable legal expense to themselves, but essentially those contracts guarantee X amount per kw regardless if it's used or not.

Hydro will pay him for whatever he produces, he just isn't producing much. 
On the larger scale farms getting it on the grid can be a problem, they just had to run new lines past my work to connect to a solar farm being installed further down the road.