Topic: New TL (2009)

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Kevlar, can you drive the Pontiac G8 while you're at it? Yeah-yeah, automatic only, but wonder what you think (aside from it being huge).

[mgaida]

I've noticed that even with my 08 TL.  My 05 Accord seemed to have more trunk room.  I think part of the reason is that the TL's trunk has panels built to conceal the hinges and underside of the speakers and subwoofer.  As a result it's taken away some of the cargo room.

And here's another question.  Why does a $45,000 car still have trunk hinges .  Unfortunately, the Genesis and CC have them as well.  I know the Mazda6 has struts and I believe the G37X does as well which dramatically increases trunk space.  I know, I know, if I want trunk space, buy a wagon, but it is still nice to drive a sedan and have a decent amount of space.

[Wetson]

I've noticed that even with my 08 TL.  My 05 Accord seemed to have more trunk room.  I think part of the reason is that the TL's trunk has panels built to conceal the hinges and underside of the speakers and subwoofer.  As a result it's taken away some of the cargo room.

And here's another question.  Why does a $45,000 car still have trunk hinges .  Unfortunately, the Genesis and CC have them as well.  I know the Mazda6 has struts and I believe the G37X does as well which dramatically increases trunk space.  I know, I know, if I want trunk space, buy a wagon, but it is still nice to drive a sedan and have a decent amount of space.

That's a good question.  There must be some mechanical reason for it.  Perhaps durability?  I don't know.  I am glad that the hinges are covered though.  The Accords exposed ones were a bit of a pain because when the trunk was really packed you had to make sure there was enough space for the hinges to fold inwards.  At least with the covered ones you don't have to worry about it.  In all honesty, for myself, the trunk room on the TL is more than enough.  Sometimes it gets full but very rarely.  I don't have little ones to cart around with sports gear etc........  Just open house signs.

[Allen]

I drove the g37 sedan and I find it feels tighter and more agile than my TL, the interior is far better than the previous generation G35's  and you have to love 328HP

[Jaeger]

Doesn't the G-37 now offer a 7-speed transmission?  Makes the brand-spanking-new-cutting-edge TL look a little yester-tech in that department.

Jaeger

[rrocket]

^^^^ Riiighht.  The TL will be available with AWD and a 6 speed tranny next year.  G were never offered with manual tranny + AWD.  IMO that's reason enough to disregard the G.

[Allen]

^^^^ Riiighht.  The TL will be available with AWD and a 6 speed tranny next year.  G were never offered with manual tranny + AWD.  IMO that's reason enough to disregard the G.

Rocket hows the AWD on the Supra ... just pulling your leg big guy

[rrocket]

I can overlook the lack of AWD for 625 HP.....  But seriously, having no AWD in my Supra is one of my biggest disappointments (or frustrations).  I would just LOVE to be able to wring the Supras neck in the snow.  Snowman wailed on my Supra in the wet, and he said the traction control was "pretty good", which is a compliment considering he drive a Subaru and knows what traction and control is all about.  However, now with so much power, the factory traction control just can't keep up........

If I'm ever out your way, you can tell me how YOU like the AWD in the Supra....

[Jaeger]

^^^^ Riiighht.  The TL will be available with AWD and a 6 speed tranny next year.  G were never offered with manual tranny + AWD.  IMO that's reason enough to disregard the G.

Hey, I stand up and applaud every time a manufacturer offers a manual transmission on any vehicle - no exception here.  The 6sp. / AWD TL should kick some butt, though regrettably, still look hideously fugly while doing so.  ( I have seen this vehcicle dubbed the "Aztecura TL" elsewhere - grimly appropriate).

But if I were an auto driver shopping in the premium luxury segment, I would find 5 forward speeds sub-par in a brand new vehicle.

Jaeger

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

I couldn't conceive of buying either a Cayman or a Boxter with an automatic tranmission.  But since the context seems to have been lost on you, I was discussing premium luxury sedans.

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

I couldn't conceive of buying either a Cayman or a Boxter with an automatic tranmission.  But since the context seems to have been lost on you, I was discussing premium luxury sedans.

Jaeger

  context seems to be lost on me.  ummmm yah.   the cayman and boxster both still come with 5 speed manuals and six speed manuals.  my point being is six speed manuals in high end vehicles is relatively new.   i remember test driving a brand new 3 series just a year and a half ago that had a 5 spd manual.  audi also just completely switched over to a six speed manuals.  imo, many of these high end cars have so much torque adding a seventh gear is not necessary.   

Ummmmm - yah - you still don't got it.  I'm talking automatics, not manuals.  I'm describing 5 speed automatics as retro in the category of premium luxury sedans.  The Boxter and Cayman are not sedans, and the fact that they offer 6 speeds in a manual transmission has no relevance at all to the point I was making.  But hey, you want to talk about Porsche sports cars, go right ahead.  I love 'em.

P.S. - You do know that a sentence traditionally starts with a capital letter, right?  It's the shift key.  Give it a try.

Jaeger

[Mitlov]

Are you guys really treating the make-or-break factor of a performance car the exact number of speeds in a transmission?  Unbelievable.  This has got to be the most ridiculous form of spec-sheet comparisons of sporty cars I've ever seen.

A Corolla XRS has a six-speed manual.  An EVO GSR has a five-speed manual.  I guess the Corolla is sportier and more advanced 

[Mitlov]

Back on topic, I saw a new TL today.  The front is better than in pictures, but the back is (impressively) worse than in pictures.

From reviews I've read, the SH-AWD 6MT is a joy to drive...with the exception of completely numb steering.  Shame they couldn't get that detail right.  Otherwise, a decent package, I guess...but not one that has any subjective appeal for me.

[Wetson]

Back on topic, I saw a new TL today.  The front is better than in pictures, but the back is (impressively) worse than in pictures.

From reviews I've read, the SH-AWD 6MT is a joy to drive...with the exception of completely numb steering.  Shame they couldn't get that detail right.  Otherwise, a decent package, I guess...but not one that has any subjective appeal for me.

Hopefully they'll improve the steering on the SH-AWD in the next year or two.  I couldn't agree with you more on your comment about transmission speeds.  Sheesh.

[Jaeger]

Are you guys really treating the make-or-break factor of a performance car the exact number of speeds in a transmission?  Unbelievable.  This has got to be the most ridiculous form of spec-sheet comparisons of sporty cars I've ever seen.

A Corolla XRS has a six-speed manual.  An EVO GSR has a five-speed manual.  I guess the Corolla is sportier and more advanced 

Perhaps you would point out where I said that it was make-or-break factor?  I didn't.  And it isn't.  I said a 5 speed  seemed a retro choice for a contemporary premium luxury vehicle.  Just as a 4 speed auto seems retro today even in a lower range vehicle. And again, I was speaking of automatics, not manuals.  I have yet to see an 8 speed manual. 

The make or break factor on the TL is the fact that the sight of it makes me a little nauseous.  Well, more than a little, to be honest.  Congrats to those that managed to snag one of the old ones

Jaeger

[Allen]

The make or break factor on the TL is the fact that the sight of it makes me a little nauseous. 
Jaeger

That's my big problem with it, you can have all the technology you want but at the end of the day for me at least, you have to like the looks of your car and the 4G TL dosen't remotely do it for me

[mgaida]

Edmunds has a comparison test between the TL SH-AWD and the G37 Journey (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=135807?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*)

Unfortunately, rather than compare AWD to AWD they decided to spew something about the G37 Journey being the "pure sport sedan" (I guess that was the one they happened to have sitting around and couldn't get their hands on a G37 Sport AWD).  The Infiniti won, but I would still like to see a valid comparison.  They made a big deal about the Infiniti's price advantage, although, if you compare the TL SH-AWD with Tech package to the Infiniti G37 Sport AWD, I believe the Infiniti is more expensive, at least in Cdn $.  Infiniti - $51,415 (incl. freight/PDI) vs. Acura - $49,815 (incl freight/PDI).

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but it somewhat annoys me that a brand new ground-up redesign of the TL continues to have a 5-speed automatic and significantly less horsepower than the G37.  I surmise that even if one compares AWD to AWD, the Infiniti will be faster.

Oh well, I guess I will still have to drive them both.

[Jaeger]

mgaida - thanks for that link to the comparo - an interesting write-up, to be sure.

My favourite line: "If you can avoid eye contact with the TL's Medusa face and make it into the TL's cabin without being turned to stone..." LOL!

For what it's worth, the reviewers didn't think the fewer forward ratios brought to the table by the Acura was irrelevant or unworthy of commentary:

"Acura has found 305 horsepower at 6,200 rpm and 273 pound-feet of torque at 5,000 rpm within the TL's 3.7-liter V6, but it's not enough to get the TL to keep up with the Infiniti in a straight line.

Perhaps the reason lies in the fact that the TL is saddled with 250 pounds more and two fewer gears in its transmission...."

I found the as-tested 0-60 time of 6.7 seconds (the same as that for the less-pwerful but lighter FWD version) to be decidedly underwhelming.  It not only gets waxed in that category by the G, but by a host of much more pedestrian automobiles as well.  Before the apologists get all riled up, yeah, I know, 0-60 isn't a "make or break" factor and buyers of these cars do not spend their days racing from stoplight-to-stoplight and so on... 

Jaeger

[dougjp]

"The Shield"

I thought about putting this in the sales reports section however its more to do with the car design changes for this TL (and the TSX). Seems to me people are voting on Acura's designs with their feet, and wallets. The following really stands out in the list to the point of being shocking.

November 2008 Acura sales 914, November 2007, 2,212, down 58.7%. Overall, light vehicle sales dropped 10.3% Nov '08 vs. '07. In comparison, GM down 23.4%, competitors Audi up 21.6% and BMW down 6.3%.