Author Topic: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?  (Read 4356 times)

Offline huota

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2008, 10:54:09 am »
Top picks:
- BMW (incl. Mini)
- Audi
- Volvo

These are based on long-term owner experience in case of BMW and Volvo, and hearsay & perception in case of Audi.

Bottom picks:
- Anything by the big three (with the exception of the C6 Vette and possibly also the G8)
- Toyota

I find American cars too retarded, too ugly, and too disposable. The Toyota's are just too vanilla, and based on my experience of the current Camry, make for a very, very uninspiring drive.


Fiction is the lie through which we tell the truth

Offline ovr50

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2008, 11:28:06 am »
I put BMW on the bad list too because they are a dime a dozen.

You wish........
2022 Mazda CX-5 Signature Turbo in Snowflake White Pearl
and
2012 Toyota Camry SE V6 in Alpine White

unctuous

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2008, 11:37:36 am »
I put BMW on the bad list too because they are a dime a dozen.

You wish........

In Toronto they are.  I see as many low end BMWs on the DVP as I see Civics.  The high end BMWs are pretty cool though... and not a dime a dozen.

Offline tenpenny

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2008, 11:46:19 am »
I enjoy the fact that some cars are on the bottom lists because they're utter garbage; others are on the list because they're bulletproof, reliable, and boring.


My diesel car self-identifies as an electric vehicle.

Offline Snowman

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2008, 11:50:25 am »
I enjoy the fact that some cars are on the bottom lists because they're utter garbage; others are on the list because they're bulletproof, reliable, and boring.




An STI is the best of all worlds. Bulletproof, reliable, and exciting  :)

Offline Iso Octane

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2008, 12:30:15 pm »
I'd almost, almost, give GM another chance.  Strong cars like the Malibu and the Solstice are bringing me around but I admit that my bias against them is still far too strong, despite having driven very few GM vehicles.

I can objectively, logically say that right now they're making some fantastic cars, but on a emotional level I just can't make the commitment.   :-\

It feels as if it was only in the last 2 years that GM has finally decided to catch up and design products that could actually be compared to their global competitors.   Up until now their products looked crudely mediocre.  Crude is the right word.  An outright lack of class, lack of taste.  If the exterior was 1 generation behind, then the interior was 2 generations behind.  Every car they turned out had me asking "why"?  Why have you yet again produced a product that seemed so inferior in so many ways?  Why would I buy you over the Japanese one for any other reason than price?  What intrinsic value do you have over the competition other than, once again, bargain bin hunting?  Is it that hard to produce something that exudes some semblance of quality?  Does it really take over 25 years to realize that world is moving on and leaving you behind?  Why is it like this?  Corporate culture?  The unions?  The American buying public who demand nothing more than mediocrity?

So while the Japanese were going "let's copy them to learn how it's done, and then try to do it better, because we're proud of ourselves and borderline egomaniacs that way", the Americans seemed to be saying "yah, that'll do, it works dunn'it?"


Offline initial_D

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2008, 12:31:29 pm »
Of all the cars my family own and had in the last 5 years, it is only within a handful of manufacturers. We all had very good experience with those vehicles and the dealerships that service them.

Top 5
Honda/Acura
Toyota/Lexus
Infiniti
BMW
Mazda

I can't say there is a certain manufacturer that I would not buy from, even with previous bad experiences of certain models. Can't really come up with a personal bottom 5.

Offline TopGun

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2008, 12:33:57 pm »
I'd like to give Ford a second chance given their committment to racing.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2008, 12:45:10 pm »
I do not like Japanese/Asian imports as they are little cars designed for little people that go BEEP BEEP.
I put BMW on the bad list too because they are a dime a dozen.




Honda Owner

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2008, 01:04:18 pm »
My Top Picks:

Honda.

My first vehicle was a Honda CB550 SuperSport. It was well worn when I got it. I beat the bark off of it and it never let me down. I sold it to a friend and it kept soldiering along. I am sure it is still wailing away somewhere.

Since then, I have owned many Honda cars and motorcycles. Not one ever has stranded me or let me down. All had excellent resale. I looked forward to driving/riding every one every time I walked up to it. Honda has fabulous engineering and never goes over the top with anything.

Toyota/Lexus

My first car was a 1974 Toyota Corolla 1600. When my Dad bought it, all we heard was "Like that thar little car ain't never gonna start in the winter, eh! (HAHAHA!) It never failed. It went to 250,000 MILES before the body rotted out and that was 13 years later. It cost $2500 new. It never had more than brakes and tires. It went from Vancouver to Montreal many times and toured many the logging road with my canoe on top.

When you work in a repair garage, the only cars you see who truly astronomical mileage are Toyotas, Hondas and old VW diesels. Toyotas are exceptionally well engineered. Bolts come off, threads don't strip, everything is accessable.

Volkswagen

This is emotional. When a VW is new, there is hardly a better car to drive. They have fantastic driving dynamics, fantastic interiors and always get a lot of attention. However, when the warranty expires, the "GM of Europe" philosophy comes to front. More hassle than I am willing to put into a car.

Hyundai-Kia

When I travel to Small Town Canada, I am surprised how many Hyundais and Kias I see. They have become the new Chevy. The offer a decent ride at a decent price. Not everybody can (or wants to) pay the premium for big brand. The owners love them and buy another one which is the best testament of all.

The Bad:

Ford

Fix or Repair Daily. Cars like the Tempo and Taurus were so singularly awful that they should have never been produced. If anybody ever wonders why the Japanese makers got such a major share of our market, look at the wonderful stuff Ford made in the 1980s, when the Japanese were making their names here. Even when the US government protected the US makers, they still continued to make junk like the Escort.

GM

I grew up in GM family. We worshiped at the Alter of the General. I vividly remember when my Dad bought a brand new 1979 Impala with F-41 and a 350 under the hood. Mechanically it was great but the interior was crappy in the extreme, panels didn't fit and the paint job looked like a drunk did it. GM then used its reputation to flog off gems like the Citation and the Celebrity. These rolling abominations were the biggest advertising Honda and Toyota ever had.

I worked at GM for years. The corporate culture is completely inward focused. GM doesn't really listen to customers or care about what they want. They dream up some model that they think will make them lots of money, produce it as cheaply as possible and advertise the living daylights out of it. When the thing starts to fall apart (and that doesn't take long) they will grudgingly fix it under warranty but never really address the issue such as strut tower bearings (all FWD), bad brakes (Malibu, Alero), steering shaft (trucks), a/c condenser (Cobalt), and worst of all, the Dreaded Intake Manifold Gasket (all 3.4 litre).

Chrysler

This is a mixed emotion. The 300 is a fine car for the money. The mini vans are the best value on the market. It is just the rest of the stuff they make is junk. Get yourself a Ram 1500 4X4 and see how the U-joints go out of it the day after the warranty is up. Same for the ball joints on the 3500. The Cummins is over priced and a nightmare when it does break. Find out that Chrysler designs these cars to be recalled to get them into the dealers to upsell labour. When the Dakotas and Duangos had to upper ball joint recall, Chrysler did the campaign in January so the dealers could upsell brakes in the slowest month of the year. They had known about the problem for months.

Offline tenpenny

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2008, 01:17:32 pm »
GM then used its reputation to flog off gems like the Citation and the Celebrity. These rolling abominations were the biggest advertising Honda and Toyota ever had.

Hey, I drove an 87 Celebrity for many years as a company car (277,000 km).  Other than wearing brakes, burning oil, and blowing a hole in the radiator (at 75,000 km), it wasn't a bad car at all.  Took one hell of a pounding, I can tell you.

Offline ovr50

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2008, 01:18:37 pm »
Marques and dealers I have been happy with over the past 10 years or so:

Happy: BMW, Toyota, Mazda, and Ford. Ranked in order as to vehicle and dealer.

So-So: Subaru (mostly the dealer's fault). I might give Subaru another chance but not with this dealer locally.

I also had one GM product bought used, and the local dealer was fine. Had a Jeep as a company unit back in 1994, and would have to rank the vehicle/dealer as only "so-so". Would likely not buy Jeep again.

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2008, 01:57:35 pm »
Top Pro Bias

Honda- I had a 93 Civic Coupe Si that I consider the best car I've ever owned. I put 60,000km on it in less than 2 years and it was flawless. It was fun sifted like a dream and I did nothing but change the oil and filiters not one hiccup.

Mazda- Despite its problems (it was a 3rd owner used) I still loved my 2nd generation RX7. Everyone should at least have chance to experience a rotary reving to redline and the balanced RWD handeling. My uncle had a 1st Gen RX7 that was a roller skate on wheels. The ^ wagon we almost bought was as athletic as any Wagon I've drivien than the Mazda 3 we had for a rental is one of my favorite small cars. I'm all about zoom zoom

VW- I put this here becuase against my better judgment (relaibaility) I still want to give VW another chance. I loved the fit finsih and solid feel of my 86 GLI. I love the new GTI as a budget Audi. Somthing about their interiors just does it for me. You know they are good when they make me want to ignore that little voice in back of my head that says you are going to regret it.


Bottom 4

Volvo- I will never give them another chance. While the car may improve the only dealer in 3 hours drive service dept is so inept and part price so high that I would not risk it. The feel of the cars likley will never be sporty enough for me anyways. Nope not a chance

Saab- My narrow escape for owening a 9-3 put me on edgde to start. the sales people were horrible. The car had had turbo replcments already. The depresication is the pits. A friend has owned 3 now all were money pits and I've never driven one that shifts like its anything other than a bad video game. They will never be on my shopping list

Dodge- I had several for work cars owned a 1998 Neon and every Doge I've ever had has had warped brakes and a noisy suspension withon 3 years. Their newer cars have the ugliest paltic interiors. Even the Viper I rode in was cheap and ugly inside. MiniVans make me ill. I'll never own another dodge.

GM (except maybe Cadillac)- While I think the Malibu is a nice step I have driven many GM cars (work rental) and not one of them has ever inspired me to want to get back in it the next day. They simply don't build anything that interests me (that I can afford since I'll never be a Vette owner)

vdk

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2008, 02:08:50 pm »
Top:
Audi
BMW
Volvo
VW
Acura

Bottom:
Toyota
Hyundai


Leviathan

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2008, 02:35:24 pm »
Buying a car today I'd be looking:

top: Mazda
middle: pretty much anything else except:
bottom: Nissan

Depends on the model being considered in some cases. In a year or two from now that list may be different as manufacturers have their ups & downs.

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2008, 08:06:02 pm »
Bob, one thing for sure give Hyundai another chance after you see the Genesis.
I'm pleased with my Sonata and even more impressed with my Dad's 08 V6 Tuscon, which was assembled in its homeland. As far as the dealers the crappiest experience you'll (arguably) find in Thornhill and the best I had at Richmond Hill Hyundai - bot my dads car there.

Much as I want to give them a chance, maybe not $40K of a chance, I'd probably buy used..

I also (despite all the naysaying on this forum) want to try something from the GM/Dodge stable, I quite like the new Malibu but it's not outstanding, I might look for something interesting in the next year or so...


Choosing a car based on reliability is like choosing a wife based solely because she is punctual. There is more to it than that...

carlos_da_fig

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2008, 08:46:46 pm »
Top:
Honda
GM (some models)
Toyota

Honda has a good reputation for a reason - their cars are very well built.  Toyota is reliable and fuel efficient, and they aren't afraid of building wagons and hatchbacks.  As for GM, they have a lot of great new models out, and every one my family has owned has been perfect.

Mid:
Mazda

I loved my 1988 323 Wagon but my 2000 Protege has not impressed me.  I love the looks of the Mazda3, but I have not heard great things from people who own them

Bottom:
Suzuki
At the bottom of the list just because of my bad experience and hard to find parts.  Cheap cars should have cheap parts. 

Willing to try again: 
Chrysler - my wife had a 97 Dodge Neon which was 100% reliable - she put nearly 300k on it and never had to any major work on it.  For any work that needed to be done, like pads and rotors, the parts were always dirt cheap.
Ford - I would love to try the new Fiesta and Focus when they come out.  I was also a big fan of the old Focus wagon and 3 Door.  A friend of mine swears by Escorts and he has driven them for years.


MadMav

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Re: Manufacturer Bias - second chance?
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2008, 04:23:58 am »
Top picks:

Ford
Mazda
Toyota
Honda
Chevrolet

Bottom of the barrel
VW
KIA
Chrysler

I grew up in a Ford family we had a succession of Mustangs, Comets (a Merc), Broncos and Granadas.  I've owned a Maverick, a Mustang and have a Fusion right now.  Generally we were happy with them, all were kept at least ten years and they provided reliable transportation.  The worst was probably our '82 Granada it was dependable enough but had a really mushy suspension and was underpowered.

Never liked Chryslers almost nothing they've built in the last twenty years has interested me and the current line up is just ugly and cheap looking.  VW has too many reliability issues it seems great cars to drive but repairs are expensive and frequent.