Topic: Subaru Legacy... Cleaner Than a Camry Hybrid?

[The Mighty Duck]

Read this in the paper this morning, very interesting stuff!  Not only cleaner than a Hybrid, but nearly as clean as an electric, zero-emissions vehicle:

The Legacy PZEV, which replaces the base 2008 Legacy 2.5i, is around 90% cleaner than its conventional (non-PZEV) counterpart. On the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) air pollution scale (it runs from zero to 10), the Legacy PZEV earns a stellar 9.5 points, which is just a half-point (0.5) behind a zero-emissions vehicle (think electric). To put this number into perspective, the outgoing Legacy rates a six out of 10. The Toyota Camry Hybrid gets an eight.

http://driving.canada.com/research/viewroadtest.spy?artid=97672

If this kind of performance is achievable from a regular gasoline engine, why aren't all modern gas engines scoring a 9.5?  The Legacy's engine isn't even particularly good on gas compared to some smaller gas engines...  shouldn't the Yaris and Fit be able to score even better?

[mmret]

It isn't the engine so much as the intake/exhaust system, would be my guess.

Impressive unless there is some loophole in the testing / rating system that they managed to abuse, intentionally or otherwise.

[Ice]

Mazda's sold in Ontario are apparently PZEV as well with that high 9.5 rating.  I didn't know that Subaru did that up here but thats amazing.  I still kinda wish I was able to get a Mazda...as thats another good reason.  Basically its just more equipment on the exhaust portion.  The "problem" is that it robs the engine of a little extra power (a couple HP apparently) so some people hate the PZEV versions of these cars.  But for everyone else that just really doesn't care too much...these are pretty good for the environment all things considered.  Or rather could be allot worse.

[Schmengie]

From the article:

"Combined, these measures deliver a vehicle that dumps near-zero tailpipe emissions. In fact, in a smoggy city, the exhaust gas may be cleaner than the air entering the engine. Think about that for a moment: a car that cleans the air as it is driven."

OK, so would you seal your lips around the tailpipe and breathe the fumes? What a load of horse - carbon monoxide and dioxide ARE NOT removable from the tailpipe emissions of gasoline-burning engines, never mind that there's almost no oxygen. This is cleaning the air???   

Maybe if we started measuring these components we'd have some idea of the real damage we're causing the environment. Calling these vehicles 'near-zero emissions' is a dangerous folly and a downright LIE. 

[UmroAyyar]

http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/tag/pzev

So why aren’t PZEVs in every showroom? The main reason, as you might guess, is cost. Although Subaru charges $200 for the option, some estimate that it costs as much as $1,500. If Subaru passed on the entire expense, it could hinder sales and slow the automaker’s compliance with ultra-low-emission laws.

Most PZEV builders don’t even offer them outside the hot-air – er, clean-air – states because they don’t want to multiply their losses. Subaru says it’s one of the few manufacturers that make PZEVs available everywhere.

Still, PZEV is one-tenth as expensive as hybrid hardware and technology. And if the cost were spread among a larger number of vehicles, it would probably drop further.

“That’s why test markets like Texas are important to us to see how much demand there is for PZEVs,” said Subaru spokeswoman Lisa Fleming.

"PZEV models are already available from Toyota, Ford, Honda, GM, Subaru, Volvo and VW. They’re scrubbed-up versions of familiar models, from the VW Jetta to the Subaru Outback. But chances are, you’ve never heard of them."

[UmroAyyar]

Check this treasure trove, list of PZEV vehicles (pzev version available).

http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch/cleansearch_result.asp?vehicletypeid=16

[UmroAyyar]

There is flawed reporting in the article. Poorly researched I would say.

I did go to EPA's website and actually compared the Air Pollution Scale score/rating of the above mentioned vehicles.

Here's the link to compare these vehicles.
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Trio.do

Here's what I found after I compared Subaru Legacy, Toyota Camry and Toyota Camry Hybrid. The ratings are identical for vehicles which are sold as PZEV. (non-PZEV are rated worse of course).

[ghost]

Looks like lots of car are PZEV already! Subaru just slapped on a plastic badge for marketing purposes. I'm thinking those old yellow school buses really need to be PZEVed! Think about the children!!!

[MKII]

From the article:

"Combined, these measures deliver a vehicle that dumps near-zero tailpipe emissions. In fact, in a smoggy city, the exhaust gas may be cleaner than the air entering the engine. Think about that for a moment: a car that cleans the air as it is driven."

OK, so would you seal your lips around the tailpipe and breathe the fumes? What a load of horse - carbon monoxide and dioxide ARE NOT removable from the tailpipe emissions of gasoline-burning engines, never mind that there's almost no oxygen. This is cleaning the air???   

http://www.catalysts.basf.com/Main/environmental/mobile_sources/automotive_emissions/premair_catalysts

[Sir Osis of Liver]

From UmroAyyar's list, it looks like the 2008 Outback was already PZEV, which is good. Looks like I got the benefits of low emissions, and no plastic decal on the tailgate.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I was intending to research more into this, thanks ya'all 

Was wondering how Subaru was doing this, but makes sense. Now, I'm wondering why Subaru is the only one advertising it? Guess most people are after and manufacturers market toward saving money at the pumps... preserving Earth is just a by-product.