Author Topic: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"  (Read 4540 times)

Geraldo

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Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« on: December 24, 2005, 12:17:14 am »
Hello to all!  Fantastic forum here...I'm a first-time poster and I'd very much appreciate some help with a big decision - buying the "dreaded" used car!

My budget is baically nil! I am considering two vehicles at this time, but it may expand. I test drove a 1998 Mazda Protege recently that has a little over 200,000KM. Apparently it has had only one owner and the records are included with the history of the car. It looked quite good actually and drove well, too, considering the mileage. It was traded into a Mazda dealership that had also serviced the same car since day 1. The service manager said that the car may very well need a tune-up and the belt will be due for a scheduled change.. The clutch was replaced at 120km. the asking price is around $5000. I am a little leary because I have visions of buying it and havin to fork out thousdands in repairs due to the age and mileage.

The other model is a 1997 Suzuki Esteem sedan (asking $3,500). Not much of a looker, but i've heard some good things about them. It has 150,000KM but I have yet to see it because it's a bit of a treck for me and haven't had the time yet. The one knock against it is that the dealer is a dreaded"curb-sider" and he claims to have purchased it at an auction. He also claims that it's a one-owner vehicle. The car looks good from the pics. I will be seeing it tomorrow or after xmas.  He claims it's running very well and has been certified.

So, what should I expect from cars with 150 to 200 KM and 8 years of usage? Assumming that both cars are in good shape (i will have a mechanic look both over) should I still expect to dish out $$$ over the next 3 years? I need to get by for the next 3 years with relatively few repairs or major surprises b/c the budget will be very tight untill 2008 or 2009. I realize this may be difficult to answer with any degree of accuracy, but what are the major repairs to expect from two reputable Japanese sedans? If I do the requisite timing belts, tune-up, etc, what else to expect? Is there a difference between a car with 150KM and one with over 200KM? What about the Mazda vs. Suzuki comparison? What would you go with?

BTW, both cars are 5speeds, have A/C and power windows/locks, etc..

Thanks very much in advance... I'd appreciate any input!
 
G

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2005, 01:30:34 am »
The difference between 150k and 200k can be huge, depending.

For many vehicles, ~175k is the point where many major parts need to be replaced, i.e. timing belt, water pump, fuel pump, etc.  A car with 200k will hopefully already have had much of this done, the other may not.

By what you've said, the Protege is a much better sounding car.  At this point mileage does not matter so much as how the car has been treated: if it's a one owner car with all the service records, then I'd say it's very solid.  Check those records and see what parts have been replaced.

As with any used vehicle, especially of this mileage, expect to have to replace a few parts.  You might be better off with an older vehicle that you pay $3000 for and pocket the other $2k for repairs.  Also, you will always get a better price buying privately - look for cars that aren't on lots would be my best suggestion.

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2005, 10:45:14 am »
That's a tough one.  You may get lucky and have no repairs (As I have been with my subaru 200,000+km '93)  Or you might be unlucky.

The mazda may be your best choice from the description though.  But as Demo suggested you might want to check some private sales.  Personally I wouldn't buy a used car of that value from a dealer.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2005, 10:50:26 am »
Why are you buying from dealers?

The Suzuki is out of the question and what bothers me about the Mazda is this;

 "The service manager said that the car may very well need a tune-up and the belt will be due for a scheduled change..

What is he saying; that the car runs like a bag of sh*t and that after you buy it this car will need a full tune and timing belt?

Yes, a car of this mileage will eventually need many things replaced.  Certainly all the fluids should be replaced.  If the dealer is installing a new T- belt and doing a full tune up including fuel filter, air filter, etc. then I suppose 5K (and no more) is OK for a newbie buyer.

Geraldo

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2005, 01:42:00 pm »
the service guy said that according to the "scheduled" maitenane, a belt would be recommended. Tune up, plugs, etc, I suppose would be a good idea regardless... I wouldn't getit done at that particular dealer. The car was not running like sh*t! It was actual quite decent,as as far as I could tell. No odd noses, rattles. CLutch seemed ok, and the engine ran well and was responsive. I driove it for 20 min including about 5km on the highway. It seems pretty good.. I guess I am fearing that i'll have to dump big buck into nit sooner than later.


Does anyone out there have experience with a Protege of this vintage? Assuming it has been  taken care of, should I expect some good years?


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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2005, 01:51:54 pm »
The Protege is a very reliable car. Do take it to a local mechanic that you trust and be willing to spend some $ to have him check it over thoroughly. The Esteem is an interesting choice as Suzukis' are very well made cars. I have friends who had Swifts, Metros, Fireflys (all essentially the same car) go well over 200000km without incident before they flipped them for other vehicles. For $3500 (which you might be able to negotiate) you would be getting a good reliable car that is underappreciated.

avtoller

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2005, 02:58:50 pm »
 :iagree: The Esteem is a good, reliable, under appreciated car. I too had a Swift and it was very reliable. My only concern is that it is being sold by a curbsider, generally NOT a good sign.  :-\

Offline johngenx

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2005, 03:50:31 pm »
Cars need stuff replaced.  That's the fact of owning one, and you'll never get around it.  Some cars eat parts earlier than others, and some have expensive parts and others not.

A Protege with 200K that's been looked after is a good bet if the price is right.  But, with ANY older used car, have some bucks in a budget for repairs.  I don't really consider a timing belt, water pump or any of the stuff people think as "major" as a big deal.  A timing belt replacement for most inline fours is about $250 parts and labour.  If you can't swing $250 for a repair, get a bus pass.  Not being sarcastic, that's the fact.

Between 200,000 and 300,000 that Mazda will probably need some suspension work, maybe a new rad (cheap) perhaps a valve cover gasket (cheap) and maybe a clutch if it's been ridden. (not so cheap)  But, buying a $4000 car and spending $1200 a year on keeping it in top shape is cheap compared to dropping a minimum of $4000 a year on a new car.

We had a 1988 626 that needed stuff on a regular basis after about 130K, but nothing that broke the bank and it was much less than the lowest lease payment on the cheapest new car.  Now, I'm a little handy and most of the service work and many of the repairs I can do, but some stuff I had the dealer do, and it was still cheap.  Plastic rads (all cars have 'em now) tend to wear out sometime after 200K, but on a Mazda, it's usually about $250 installed at the dealer.

I keep my 1998 Mercedes in like-new condition.  If a part is even suspected that it might be close to the end of it's life, it's replaced.  It gets serviced much more frequently than the schedule calls for and even with my super-duper-anal-ness about not letting anything go, it still runs a fraction of the operating cost of a new econo-car thanks to flat depreciation.

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2005, 06:29:20 pm »
Just  a thought , what is the actual replacement interval for a timing belt on the Mazda?  200,000 seems a long time for a belt to me but am probably wrong.
Get the dealer to show you the actual maintenance schedule for that car and make sure (from the records) that everything has been done.  Some questions to ask:
When were the brakes done?
Tune-up of any sort?
Air filter? Fuel filter? (both should have been done several times by now)

I would stay away from curbsiders, in Greater Vancouver they are a huge problem.

Whatever you decide, get a mechanic you trust to do a thorough check of the vehicle.

Good luck on your first purchase, hope we help.

Got to post pictures when you get it!
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Geraldo

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2005, 08:20:56 pm »
the belt has already been replaced, as has the clutch. I was also concerned about suspension work. It seemed fine. I am going back to school next sept. and that is why I am so concerned about budget.

I will have a mechanic look at it but i will of also consider the esteem.. nit all curbside cars are dudes... some of them must be road-worthy.. hopefully, a mechanic will be able to determine that.

BTW, i just read a few reviews on esteems. The Canadian reviews were quite positive, them American reviews were not at all. But, if you're looking for ecnonomy.... ultimately, I am looking for quality/reliability..

I don't care what my neighbours think! So what if an esteem  isn't  sexy!

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2005, 02:50:08 am »
the service guy said that according to the "scheduled" maitenane, a belt would be recommended.

A timing belt is more than a "recommended" item.  It is a must do, so what the service manger is saying to you, without killing the deal, is that this Protege needs a timing belt and a tune up which they aren't willing to do as part of the sale price.  At that mileage you will need a timing belt, idler and tensioner, not just the timing belt so that cost is about $150. plus tax for parts, so I think your looking at closer to $500 tax in parts and labour.  Parts for a tune up and new thermostat will cost you $100.  Which engine does it have?

A car with 200k km is always due for something but the tranny and engine in this car should be good for many more years.

The Suzuki is an auction car and a low end one at that and consider it someone else's past headache.  If is was a good car it would not be at the auction and it will need a T-belt as well.

Buy private.

Below is the timing belt kit for the Protege 1.8; 1.5 is similar
« Last Edit: December 25, 2005, 03:06:21 am by articsteve »

Geraldo

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2005, 09:47:35 am »
It's the 1.8 engine. I am leaning towards the Protege, especially since the car has all records and it was purchased and serviced at that dealership.

However, I did come a cross a '93 corolla wagon! Now I've heard very good things abot that car! It's a private deal too...one owner..


Thank you for your input - happy holidays

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2005, 11:21:21 pm »
Based on that, the Corolla sounds like it could be a gem.  If one owner has had it for this long, chances are its been taken car of, not tossed around because the owner knew they'd be ditching it in three years.

Private sales are definately a better way to go in your position.

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2005, 08:15:09 pm »
If you go for the 93 corolla check it out for body rust other than that they are bulletproof.If it's a wagon it would also have the bigger 1.8 litre engine which has a bit more torque than the 1.6. They also have timing belts like the protege that have to be changed.

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Geraldo

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2005, 11:49:45 pm »
The corolla sold almost immediately after the  add went on! Man, those cars are like gold.. too bad, cause that would have been my first choice... especially b/c it's a wagon. I just wish more were available as they are next to impossible to find

got my mechanic looking for me now as well.. it's down to corolla, protege, civic or suzuki -

avtoller

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2005, 01:06:22 am »
Good luck in your search - they are all excellent choices.  ;)

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2005, 09:12:50 am »
Hi Newbie

Do yourself a favour, If you have $5000.00 to spend on a used car, take your money and put it in the bank.

 Depending on your credit you should be able to finance or lease a brand new vehicle for about the same as your monthly pmts would be on a used one.

And if your not sure what kind of vehicle to buy, buy a Toyota or a Honda,
they have the best resale and reliabilty just check the consumer reports.

Just remember when you buy a new vehicle not to get caught in the low pmt/low km situation, be smart with this purchase and every other next one will go as smooth as silk.

Regards
vtccarguy

Geraldo

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2005, 10:40:24 am »
Don't need any more debt! I've been living on credit for the past 3 years as a grad student.. a used purchase seems to be the most prudnet choice but only as long as the car is soilid. I  figure even if i have to dump several hundreds every 6 months, it's cheaper on a per annum basis

not sure if i'll ever buy new again - my friends have bought new and they're payments are outragious. Plus, the depreciation is incredible. They loose thousands within a couple of years..even the better makes

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Re: Newbie help!! Used car "dilemma"
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2005, 11:47:58 am »
For $5K I'd pass on both dealerships and curbsters. Buy from a private party (get it inspected by a mechanic - not Cdn Tire either). The local bargin finder or autotrader is a good source. buysell.com or canadatrader.com