Author Topic: Test Drive: 2019 Toyota 86 GT Manual (Read 20247 times)

dirtyjeffer · « **Reply #100 on:** January 31, 2019, 11:14:05 am »

Quote from: rrocket on January 30, 2019, 05:53:48 pm

Turbo BMW M3. Large turbo. Turbo got to full boost 500RPM sooner, too. You guys get the idea....sky's the limit these days. But manufacturers play a big game of trade-offs (generally). You want more torque down low? Want more power up top? They (generally) like more torque down low and quicker spool (driveability issues)...so that means smaller turbos. Which means power suffers up top and drops off fast on these small displacement cars.

so, i've been driving the Sorento the last couple of days, and maybe it's just because i don't drive it too often, but it seems extra zippy lately...could the really cold air temps have something to do with that?...i think the colder the air, the more dense it is?...maybe it's just because i'm used to my Rio5, but it seems like it's got a bit of extra grunt with the air temps in the -20C to -25C.

Jaeger · « **Reply #101 on:** January 31, 2019, 11:17:54 am »

Quote from: dirtyjeffer on January 31, 2019, 11:14:05 am

Quote from: rrocket on January 30, 2019, 05:53:48 pm
Turbo BMW M3. Large turbo. Turbo got to full boost 500RPM sooner, too. You guys get the idea....sky's the limit these days. But manufacturers play a big game of trade-offs (generally). You want more torque down low? Want more power up top? They (generally) like more torque down low and quicker spool (driveability issues)...so that means smaller turbos. Which means power suffers up top and drops off fast on these small displacement cars.
so, i've been driving the Sorento the last couple of days, and maybe it's just because i don't drive it too often, but it seems extra zippy lately...could the really cold air temps have something to do with that?...i think the colder the air, the more dense it is?...maybe it's just because i'm used to my Rio5, but it seems like it's got a bit of extra grunt with the air temps in the -20C to -25C.

That's not just something you think. That's something that is. It's why hot air balloons float. And why intercoolers are a thing.

dirtyjeffer · « **Reply #102 on:** January 31, 2019, 11:30:36 am »

Quote from: Jaeger on January 31, 2019, 11:17:54 am

Quote from: dirtyjeffer on January 31, 2019, 11:14:05 am
Quote from: rrocket on January 30, 2019, 05:53:48 pm
Turbo BMW M3. Large turbo. Turbo got to full boost 500RPM sooner, too. You guys get the idea....sky's the limit these days. But manufacturers play a big game of trade-offs (generally). You want more torque down low? Want more power up top? They (generally) like more torque down low and quicker spool (driveability issues)...so that means smaller turbos. Which means power suffers up top and drops off fast on these small displacement cars.
so, i've been driving the Sorento the last couple of days, and maybe it's just because i don't drive it too often, but it seems extra zippy lately...could the really cold air temps have something to do with that?...i think the colder the air, the more dense it is?...maybe it's just because i'm used to my Rio5, but it seems like it's got a bit of extra grunt with the air temps in the -20C to -25C.

That's not just something you think. That's something that is. It's why hot air balloons float. And why intercoolers are a thing.

well i suppose that is one nice about this cold spell...any way to determine how much "free HP/TQ" i'm getting?

Ex-airbalancer · « **Reply #103 on:** January 31, 2019, 11:34:12 am »

There is the chart

dirtyjeffer · « **Reply #104 on:** January 31, 2019, 12:59:36 pm »

Quote from: Airbalancer on January 31, 2019, 11:34:12 am

There is the chart

well, it has the air density, but i don't know what the formula is to calculate how much extra HP/TQ i would get because of that increased density (which was more what i was looking for)...it looks like the air density is increased about 10% (vs 0C)...more air equals more fuel equals more power, but not sure what that number would be.

Jaeger · « **Reply #105 on:** January 31, 2019, 03:11:08 pm »

Quote from: Cadure on January 31, 2019, 02:51:32 pm

Let’s talk about turbos vs normal aspiration at altitude. Say 3500 feet. I certainly know that I would want a turbo then.

How much torque drop off with a NA motor vs forced induction?

Yeah but the turbo takes half a day to spool up and provide any boost, so the n/a motor would totally smoke it anyway. All day, every day.

rrocket · « **Reply #106 on:** January 31, 2019, 03:13:02 pm »

Quote from: Cadure on January 31, 2019, 02:51:32 pm

Let’s talk about turbos vs normal aspiration at altitude. Say 3500 feet. I certainly know that I would want a turbo then.

How much torque drop off with a NA motor vs forced induction?

Yep! Turbos really help in altitude.

rrocket · « **Reply #107 on:** January 31, 2019, 04:48:33 pm »

Quote from: dirtyjeffer on January 31, 2019, 12:59:36 pm

Quote from: Airbalancer on January 31, 2019, 11:34:12 am
There is the chart
well, it has the air density, but i don't know what the formula is to calculate how much extra HP/TQ i would get because of that increased density (which was more what i was looking for)...it looks like the air density is increased about 10% (vs 0C)...more air equals more fuel equals more power, but not sure what that number would be.

It's different for every car....and typically it's calculated knowing how many more PSI you can run in cool weather vs. warm.

I knew what it was on my Supra.

On some cars (depending on set-up) you'll actually get boost spikes/creep in cool weather.

Jaeger · « **Reply #108 on:** February 01, 2019, 01:21:48 pm »

Now this sounds very promising.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a19682494/theres-a-next-gen-toyota-86-and-subaru-brz-coming-and-it-might-have-more-power/

OliverD · « **Reply #109 on:** February 01, 2019, 02:54:09 pm »

Yeah, that's great news. And somewhat surprising.

Sir Osis of Liver · « **Reply #110 on:** February 01, 2019, 02:59:05 pm »

So 260hp in for the 2.4 turbo in the Ascent.

230-40 for a normally aspirated version of 2.4L maybe?

Jaeger · « **Reply #111 on:** February 01, 2019, 03:13:12 pm »

Quote from: Sir Osis of Liver on February 01, 2019, 02:59:05 pm

So 260hp in for the 2.4 turbo in the Ascent.

230-40 for a normally aspirated version of 2.4L maybe?

That kind of specific output seems out of vogue these days.

OliverD · « **Reply #112 on:** February 01, 2019, 03:30:17 pm »

I feel like we'd sooner see a 2.0T in the next 86/BRZ rather than a naturally aspirated 2.4.

ArticSteve · « **Reply #113 on:** February 01, 2019, 03:54:40 pm »

"It's not that easy to boost the engine," Tada said through an interpreter. "If you just increase the horsepower, that creates an unbalanced car, so we have to start from redesigning the platform to accommodate more horsepower."

What a load of crap. Try ditching the Prius tires with go with some real width.

Jaeger · « **Reply #114 on:** February 01, 2019, 04:35:49 pm »

BS indeed. You can certainly give a car more horsepower than it was designed to handle. But please, I'm just not buying that an extra 30 hp would make this thing twist itself into a pretzel.

dirtyjeffer · « **Reply #115 on:** February 01, 2019, 04:54:48 pm »

Quote from: Jaeger on February 01, 2019, 04:35:49 pm

BS indeed. You can certainly give a car more horsepower than it was designed to handle. But please, I'm just buying that an extra 30 hp would make this thing twist itself into a pretzel.

yea...a set of real rubber alone would likely handle an extra 30-50 HP just fine.

johngenx · « **Reply #116 on:** February 01, 2019, 11:03:49 pm »

When I drove the FR-S, I did push it quite hard through a couple of ramps and it felt like the chassis could handle quite a bit more power. The only tweak I’d make is reigning in the oversteer a bit, which I’m sure wouldn’t be hard.

dkaz · « **Reply #117 on:** February 02, 2019, 12:09:13 pm »

The oversteer is the biggest reason to get an 86!

johngenx · « **Reply #118 on:** February 02, 2019, 01:01:34 pm »

Quote from: DKaz on February 02, 2019, 12:09:13 pm

The oversteer is the biggest reason to get an 86!

True. But with an extra 75-100hp it might get a little too much. Just reign in the chassis so it feels as it does now, but with the extra ponies.

Honestly, I have no idea of how this car got past legal. It's easily the most tail happy stock car I've driven that wasn't using big power to induce it.

dirtyjeffer · « **Reply #119 on:** February 02, 2019, 04:12:17 pm »

Quote from: johngenx on February 02, 2019, 01:01:34 pm

Quote from: DKaz on February 02, 2019, 12:09:13 pm
The oversteer is the biggest reason to get an 86!

True. But with an extra 75-100hp it might get a little too much. Just reign in the chassis so it feels as it does now, but with the extra ponies.

Honestly, I have no idea of how this car got past legal. It's easily the most tail happy stock car I've driven that wasn't using big power to induce it.

ditching the Prius rubber alone would likely help with traction.