Topic: 2015 Ford Focus Gets New Sheetmetal, 1.0-Litre EcoBoost

[tpl]

Ford was using a dry clutch. They tend to be grabby at the best of times.

Yes but 99% of MT car clutches are dry so why should the automation in Fords transmission be worse than a humans left foot and ankle joint...in this application.  I imagine that software controls some kind of solenoid needle valve  that then allows oil under pressure from a pump in the transmission to actuate the clutch. Not exactly new and state of the art technology.

You are correct. I was thinking of motorcycles, and the difference between dry and wet clutches there.

It may be difficult to replicate a human engaging a clutch. Well at least some humans. One friend of mine still can't engage a clutch properly, and he has as much experience as I have.

FWIW the 6 speed DSG we get here is wet and the original 7 speed DSG  in the euro 1.4 Golf is dry

measure the speed of the output shaft versus the input shaft and the variance over time and adjust the pressure accordingly. All of this within maybe 200 milliseconds.  Easy and the little old computer would have plenty of time to be controlling actuators for the dog clutches on the various cogs to select gears at the same time.   Even if the hydraulics are a bit cheapo the software should be able to adjust for that...VWs DSG does according to various articles on it.

[tpl]

I've driven a few and only noticed jerky behaviour creeping in traffic. It worked fine the rest of the time.

The guy at work is selling his for this reason, in traffic its either a broken automatic or a manual tranny being operated by a very unskilled driver. Thing is, in most larger cities the car will be spending some of its time in bumper to bumper traffic, if the tranny cant handle that, Id call it a failure.

We very rarely get first gear traffic here, so I don't care. 

Most of my days are spent in 1st and second for most of my ride to work.

For those who know TO  I once counted the gearshifts on part of my commute between entering the 404 at 16th Ave and getting onto the DVP just past the 401.   I lost count at somewhere over 120. It was, from the entry ramp  2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1,2 and so on repeating 1,2 with once in a while a 1,2,3,2 That was only half way home on a not terribly busy day.

[Fobroader]

I've driven a few and only noticed jerky behaviour creeping in traffic. It worked fine the rest of the time.

The guy at work is selling his for this reason, in traffic its either a broken automatic or a manual tranny being operated by a very unskilled driver. Thing is, in most larger cities the car will be spending some of its time in bumper to bumper traffic, if the tranny cant handle that, Id call it a failure.

We very rarely get first gear traffic here, so I don't care. 

Most of my days are spent in 1st and second for most of my ride to work.

For those who know TO  I once counted the gearshifts on part of my commute between entering the 404 at 16th Ave and getting onto the DVP just past the 401.   I lost count at somewhere over 120. It was, from the entry ramp  2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1,2 and so on repeating 1,2 with once in a while a 1,2,3,2 That was only half way home on a not terribly busy day.

Now...can you imagine that experience with a tranny as bad as the one in the Focus?? Not saying it isnt a good car by any means, this tranny just ruins another wise great car.

[tpl]

^^^ I have been in similar traffic with the DSG and that was smooth enough...at least as smooth as my 30+ years of MT driving. I have never damaged or worn out a clutch so I do know how to do this.  I was in a 330xi 5MT when I did this experiment...must have been 2005.

I meant to try a Focus with that transmission but never got around to it.

[MKII]

VW DQ200 has proven that dry dual clutch applications suck. (Ford should have used VW's dry clutch history as wisdom)
Read VW's dry clutch problems, now Ford's and it is easy to see dry dual clutch and thermal issues = lousy ownership experience.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6858488-DQ200-DSG-in-global-recall-Possibly-affects-Jetta-Hybrid

[tpl]

I look at that link and only see problems with the electronics being buggered by deposits from the oil. Nothing about the clutches failing in themselves.
"For this new recall VW is saying that the DQ200 dsg has a fault from factory. The synthetic oil used in the DQ200 dsg seperates into its sulphur constituents and deposit within the gearbox. These particles are conductive and create shorts in the gearbox leading to a blown fuse which causes the clutches to malfunction. This oil is what the car originally came with and this issue happens with no input from the user in terms of maintenance.
"
Personally I dislike the idea of electronics running bathed in hot oil but I can see that for all kinds of reasons including the packaging of the transmission it would be done and ought to work ok.

[MKII]

tpl, if you really have an interest in the VW DQ200 history, I know you know how to properly research the issue.
That wee bit of a thread is just a tip of the cave in that VW is facing around the world (yes there is a world outside of North America) just depends if you want to see further then past your own nose. 

Read what you want into this news from Getrag from this years Frankfurt auto show news clips.
At present, Getrag supplies its dry clutch 6DCT250 to both Renault and Ford, and Volvo also employs it on the V30 and some of its current mid-sized models. It is expected that Getrag will replace this unit with a wet clutch version offering greater torque capacity and, possibly, seven rather than six speeds. This will complete Getrag’s move away from dry clutch DCTs, leaving only Fiat, with its high-torque D635, and Volkswagen, with its seven-speed DQ200, as providers of dry clutch transmissions.

[tpl]

Really all I care about is whether the 7spd Dual clutch in my B-class is wet or dry...and I don't care much with 3.4 years of warranty to go.  I am sure that somewhere there is documentation on that and I admit I have not searched. 
I was and am under the impression that the VW 7 spd DSG was a low torque transmission used only in Europe and I see in the NA Jetta hybrid now.
I have no problems with wet clutches although as I have not owned a motorcycle I have no experience with them.  As I said, I am intuitively unhappy with bathing electronics in hot oil.

I very much like the idea of a DSG and I firmly hope they will replace slushboxes and maybe even CVTs.


As for the original topic of the Ford 1.0 engine, my first two cars were both under 1 litre albeit with 4 cylinders each.

[tooscoops]

i was just curious to look up whether i was just crazy that the focus has done a lot of changes in a short amount of time...

2007


2010


2012


2015


not that i have a problem with changes more often, but i find this to be a lot more often than most other cars... and especially in a category where price is so important... they must have a higher than average r&d and design budget which should equal a more expensive car... glad it doesn't and all, but it makes me wonder what they could do price wise if they stuck with designs for the usual 6 years with a mid cycle refresh in the middle...

8yrs, 4 changes... they seem to sell a lot worldwide, so i guess they make it work!

[mixmanmash]

i was just curious to look up whether i was just crazy that the focus has done a lot of changes in a short amount of time...

2007


2010


2012


2015


not that i have a problem with changes more often, but i find this to be a lot more often than most other cars... and especially in a category where price is so important... they must have a higher than average r&d and design budget which should equal a more expensive car... glad it doesn't and all, but it makes me wonder what they could do price wise if they stuck with designs for the usual 6 years with a mid cycle refresh in the middle...

8yrs, 4 changes... they seem to sell a lot worldwide, so i guess they make it work!

Seems that way with the Honda Civic too - They changed the model for 2012.  Then after lackluster reviews, it was changed again for 2013 (sedan only IIRC).  And look, they changed it some more for 2014 (coupe only IIRC)...

However, one could argue that in the case of the Focus, 2010 was more like a mid-cycle refresh, and the 2015 certainly is a mid-cycle refresh.

[tooscoops]

the more i see the '15, the more i see little changes... though as a whole it doesn't seem all that changed, this is more than just a fascia... this seems to be every panel. same goes for the 2010...

i guess they are getting to a point now where changing the whole body is minor compared to the engine and all the other components. maybe we'll get back to the 50's and such where each year's launches actually mean something! 

[dkaz]

Keep in mind that 2010 design (2008-2011 IIRC?) was North American exclusive, and really just a refresh from the 2000-2007 model, which also got a refresh I think in 2004 or 05. That 2007 model you show is the original one from 2000. Here's the refresh:



I really like the Focus, it's too bad that back seat is so small.

[wing]

Yeah the 2000 lasted forever.  Until the official world change.  Ford is trying to sync up around the world.  The focus in Europe was there well before it came here, so they are now finally synching up properly.