Topic: The best winter vehicle (on road use)

[Bubba]

Didn't think cold starts would be a problem in Australia.

One of the best product names ever.

[wing]

Awd SUV without winter tires lol.  Perfect for driving opposite lock

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[Rupert]

   The mechanical linkage between the twin Stromberg carbs on the TR6 was a bit weak and in very cold conditions could distort and put the carbs out of sync. The system could also freeze up and not shut down...resulting in hairy stops before realising that it had happened. Can't remember starting problems but not a great engine...under powered (all of 98HP. in NA trim) and poor reving. The car would have been improved with a 2.6 L. 130HP Isuzu 4 cyl I always thought. OHC and willing rever. Fondly remembered mostly for the ambiance ... and very nice wooden dash....oh and difficult oil filter changing past the steering shaft on LHD (mostly after market revised in TR6s seen at shows)
   The SU carb on later BMC North American cars had electric heat for 60 sec. on start-up as I recall. Needed a bit longer in extreme cold and I rewired mine to a manual switch which was mostly in as delivered condition but when very cold I could over-ride and hold the heat for longer.
Still...freezing accelerators was not unknown in many cars in those years. You just had to overcome.
   
   The best winter car for normal road use on average (not extreme)....FWD properly shod. Enough slip to let you know the difficulty level on start-up and enough grip to facilitate the same starts. Stopping is the same for all and a great leveller in this regard. Land Rovers and posh SUVs and trucks need not apply. Only for the affluent posh and not for the rest of us. IMO. The new small Chev Trax seems like a good bet....bit more ground clearance.

[Slow_lane]

In my ownership experience our 2011 328 Xdrive is best winter car I have owned. Not only because of how it pulls and tracks through snow (I have Pirelli WS70's). The seat heaters worked real fast and gets nice & toasty. The steering wheel heater is fantastic. The car warms up very very fast and the cabin heats up in no time. If you have to deal with winter it is a nice car to be in.

The other nice thing is the way the wiper settings always revert to being off when car turned off. This is great because I usually use the rain sensing wiper option. It is so easy to leave them on when you turn off car. In other cars (hello Mazda 3) you go out after snowfall and turn your car on only to see your wipers struggling against a load of snow. I freak out and have to jump out in a panic in hopes of not burning out your wiper motor.

The only negative I have is that both the parking brake and the transmission (in park) lock and hold the back wheels. This leaves only the rear tires holding car in place on an incline. This has proven to be a problem for me as I have a sloping driveway. On icy days I have had problems with my car slipping while in park with handbrake on. This issue does not exist on my front wheel drive Mazda as the tranny locks front wheels and the parking brake locks the back. So you have 4 patches of rubber holding car in place vs just two.

[X-Traction]

Now, other people in the party own an old Subaru Legend wagon.  The Outback owner had a Legend wagon for many years before the Outback.  He maintained the Legend wagon was the best vehicle for using in shallow snow ever built. 

Do you mean the Legacy? 

I stupidly said "Legend" when I meant to say "Loyale".  I think the later Loyales were called GL's.  And the earlier Loyales had a low range.

[sailor723]

Now, other people in the party own an old Subaru Legend wagon.  The Outback owner had a Legend wagon for many years before the Outback.  He maintained the Legend wagon was the best vehicle for using in shallow snow ever built. 

Do you mean the Legacy? 

I stupidly said "Legend" when I meant to say "Loyale".  I think the later Loyales were called GL's.  And the earlier Loyales had a low range.

Actually the GL's and GL-10's came first. I had an 82 and an 87. Subaru continued to sell the car as a sort of loss leader decontented and at a reduced price after the Legacy came out in 90. That's when they were marketed as "Loyales". You are right, the 80's versions came with a two speed transfer case.

[dkaz]

I was so happy that my old Hondas had manual chokes.  (any you young 'uns even have a clue what a choke is?).

I'm 30, my second car when I was 17 was an 86 Honda Civic wagon with 5 speed manual and manual choke. Loved that car. Almost 13 years... time flies.

[blur911]

I've had an assortment of good winter cars, but the worst would be a Mustang II Cobra I had in college.  The summer performance tires just made it that much better.  I remember replacing the heater fan in a parking lot one cold xmas.
I once tried my 911 in snow.  Started it, put it in gear, got out and watched the wheels spinning at idle with absolutely no traction, got back in and shut it off.

For best I've owned I'd say it starts at a FWD Audi Coupe, it had bum warmers and winter tires.  Blew reverse on it trying to get out of a snowbank.
Next would be my Audi 90q20v sedans, bum warmers, heated mirrors, AWD and winter tires, still, occasionally didn't start at -30 and so-so ground clearance.
Next is my Audi 5000 turbo quattro, bum warmers, heated mirrors,  locking diffs, only got stuck once, on a snowplow berm I tried gettting through but ended up high-centered on.  Rad froze and exploded one -30 night (guess I should have added a bit more anti-freeze)
Second best is our present Subaru Outback VDC, AWD,  bum warmers, heated wiper area on the windshield, heated mirrors,  traction/stability control, winter tires, decent ground clearance, always starts... except the engine is now dead and I'm in the process of removing it and cursing it.

Present winter beater, Porsche Cayenne S.  AWD (haven't had to switch it to anything more demanding yet, but it has lockable diffs and low-range transfer case) heated seats (best I've experienced), heated steering wheel (in case any Aussies visit), traction/stability control, winter tires.  Haven't tried it yet in the nasty stuff but it get out of our snowy uphill cottage driveway with no drama.  Will report further once we have some real winter.

[X-Traction]

Now, other people in the party own an old Subaru Legend wagon.  The Outback owner had a Legend wagon for many years before the Outback.  He maintained the Legend wagon was the best vehicle for using in shallow snow ever built. 

Do you mean the Legacy? 

I stupidly said "Legend" when I meant to say "Loyale".  I think the later Loyales were called GL's.  And the earlier Loyales had a low range.

Actually the GL's and GL-10's came first. I had an 82 and an 87. Subaru continued to sell the car as a sort of loss leader decontented and at a reduced price after the Legacy came out in 90. That's when they were marketed as "Loyales". You are right, the 80's versions came with a two speed transfer case.

Thanks for the corrections.  Here in Vancouver, at least, they have long since been very difficult to buy used because people got into passing them on to friends and relatives.  They have an amazingly large cargo area for the size of the car. They suffer badly from the front fenders rusting out (and engine problems), but you can buy new fenders for them online.

However I refuse to travel in them because they lack virtually all the safety features of more modern cars.

[Fobroader]

I've had an assortment of good winter cars, but the worst would be a Mustang II Cobra I had in college.  The summer performance tires just made it that much better.  I remember replacing the heater fan in a parking lot one cold xmas.
I once tried my 911 in snow.  Started it, put it in gear, got out and watched the wheels spinning at idle with absolutely no traction, got back in and shut it off.

For best I've owned I'd say it starts at a FWD Audi Coupe, it had bum warmers and winter tires.  Blew reverse on it trying to get out of a snowbank.
Next would be my Audi 90q20v sedans, bum warmers, heated mirrors, AWD and winter tires, still, occasionally didn't start at -30 and so-so ground clearance.
Next is my Audi 5000 turbo quattro, bum warmers, heated mirrors,  locking diffs, only got stuck once, on a snowplow berm I tried gettting through but ended up high-centered on.  Rad froze and exploded one -30 night (guess I should have added a bit more anti-freeze)
Second best is our present Subaru Outback VDC, AWD,  bum warmers, heated wiper area on the windshield, heated mirrors,  traction/stability control, winter tires, decent ground clearance, always starts... except the engine is now dead and I'm in the process of removing it and cursing it.

Present winter beater, Porsche Cayenne S.  AWD (haven't had to switch it to anything more demanding yet, but it has lockable diffs and low-range transfer case) heated seats (best I've experienced), heated steering wheel (in case any Aussies visit), traction/stability control, winter tires.  Haven't tried it yet in the nasty stuff but it get out of our snowy uphill cottage driveway with no drama.  Will report further once we have some real winter.

What kind of 4x4/awd does the Cayenne have?? I imagine its pretty awesome as the ones in the 911s are apparently amazing.

[Angry Chicken]

- permanent AWD.  No slip-and-grip allowed!;
- effective seat warmers;
- effective, quick defrost and overall cabin heating
- easy to start in minus whatever (OK...minus 30 and above) w/o plugging in
- dependable
- fun to drive, even on frozen wintry roads (performance winter tires?)
- manual or manumatic transmission that allows you to select take-off gear

You just described my Forester!  Being a manual, the torque split is 50/50. The heater and defrost work great, the wires in the bottom of the windshield help keep the wipers from icing up.  The butt warmers are awesome. I only use the highest setting on the coldest days, and even then after 5 minutes I have to turn them down.  They get too warm.  Subaru's stability control isn't t too intrusive either.  It will allow me to slide the back end a bit before the nannies kick in.

And the new Forester won SUV of the Year honors with Motor Trend.  I just finished reading the article.  I think it would be a really good choice measured against the criteria we have mentioned so far. 

[Black Hatch]

Late to this thread, but man what a difference AWD (albeit grip and slip) and winter tires make in driving (compared to my RX-8).

Heading to the movie theatre yesterday pretty slipper all around Edmonton intersections with the ice but the CX-5 made it like a champ.
People driving 30 kph less than the speed limit (30kph in 60kph) and I just scoot around them in the right lane. 

Almost had a Prius taxi hit me from the rear when I stopped at a red light with a moderate (panic?) stop;
that is the leadup to the intersection was iced but with ABS and winter tires I stopped before the red light.

Maybe people don't know how to drive because it seems like people just hammer on the gas from the intersection as I keep seeing vehicles spin their tires and get almost nowhere.

I think AWD CUVs are almost perfect for winter driving.

[5 Wheel Drive]

- permanent AWD.  No slip-and-grip allowed!;
- effective seat warmers;
- effective, quick defrost and overall cabin heating
- easy to start in minus whatever (OK...minus 30 and above) w/o plugging in
- dependable
- fun to drive, even on frozen wintry roads (performance winter tires?)
- manual or manumatic transmission that allows you to select take-off gear

You just described my Forester!  Being a manual, the torque split is 50/50. The heater and defrost work great, the wires in the bottom of the windshield help keep the wipers from icing up.  The butt warmers are awesome. I only use the highest setting on the coldest days, and even then after 5 minutes I have to turn them down.  They get too warm.  Subaru's stability control isn't t too intrusive either.  It will allow me to slide the back end a bit before the nannies kick in.

And the new Forester won SUV of the Year honors with Motor Trend.  I just finished reading the article.  I think it would be a really good choice measured against the criteria we have mentioned so far.

Cool...I'll have to look up that article!

[blur911]

I've had an assortment of good winter cars, but the worst would be a Mustang II Cobra I had in college.  The summer performance tires just made it that much better.  I remember replacing the heater fan in a parking lot one cold xmas.
I once tried my 911 in snow.  Started it, put it in gear, got out and watched the wheels spinning at idle with absolutely no traction, got back in and shut it off.

For best I've owned I'd say it starts at a FWD Audi Coupe, it had bum warmers and winter tires.  Blew reverse on it trying to get out of a snowbank.
Next would be my Audi 90q20v sedans, bum warmers, heated mirrors, AWD and winter tires, still, occasionally didn't start at -30 and so-so ground clearance.
Next is my Audi 5000 turbo quattro, bum warmers, heated mirrors,  locking diffs, only got stuck once, on a snowplow berm I tried gettting through but ended up high-centered on.  Rad froze and exploded one -30 night (guess I should have added a bit more anti-freeze)
Second best is our present Subaru Outback VDC, AWD,  bum warmers, heated wiper area on the windshield, heated mirrors,  traction/stability control, winter tires, decent ground clearance, always starts... except the engine is now dead and I'm in the process of removing it and cursing it.

Present winter beater, Porsche Cayenne S.  AWD (haven't had to switch it to anything more demanding yet, but it has lockable diffs and low-range transfer case) heated seats (best I've experienced), heated steering wheel (in case any Aussies visit), traction/stability control, winter tires.  Haven't tried it yet in the nasty stuff but it get out of our snowy uphill cottage driveway with no drama.  Will report further once we have some real winter.

What kind of 4x4/awd does the Cayenne have?? I imagine its pretty awesome as the ones in the 911s are apparently amazing.

I could try to explain it, but better to cut and paste from the factory info, mine does not have the Advanced Offroad Technology Package:

Porsche Traction Management (PTM) permanent four-wheel drive system, which is standard on both Cayenne models and feeds 62 percent of the engine power to the rear wheels and 38 percent to the front wheels in the basic mode. A multiple-plate clutch operated by an electric motor and controlled electronically is able to vary the distribution of power according to specific driving conditions, whenever necessary feeding up to 100 percent of the engine torque either to the front or the rear.

 Due to its intelligent four-wheel drive, the Cayenne is able to handle minor off-pavement conditions without requiring modification of the traction systems. When driven on rough terrain, the Cayenne uses the Porsche Traction System integrated as a standard feature in the power divider. This reduction gearbox comes with a 2.7:1 gear ratio for even the most extreme off-pavement driving maneuvers. By activating the low range mode by way of a toggle switch on the Cayenne’s center console, several control systems are automatically prepared for off-pavement conditions. PTM switches to the appropriate gear ratio for off-pavement driving and activates a special off-pavement control map for the differential locks. PSM switches on the traction-oriented off-pavement ABS and ABD system.

The Cayenne’s standard off-pavement driving characteristics can be enhanced to a higher level. In the event individual wheels lose contact in demanding terrain, a direct and rigid connection of the four-wheel drive system provides mobility. Operating the off-pavement switch a second time activates the 100 percent front-to-rear differential lock.   Both models are equipped for water crossing up to a half meter deep (556 mm or 22 inches when set to the special off-pavement level) thanks to the Cayenne’s special sealing concept, a high-rise intake funnel, its elevated transmission purge opening, and full encapsulation of the side sills.

As an option, Porsche offers the Advanced Offroad Technology Package for the most extreme off-pavement conditions. Apart from special side protection and a steel plate underfloor panel around the radiator, this package includes a fully controllable (up to 100 percent) differential lock on the rear axle. To fully activate the lock, the driver operates the central off-pavement switch a third time. The fully controlled rear axle lock then ensures even better traction when setting off on slippery surfaces with varying frictional coefficients and in bends.

The package also uses anti-roll bars on the front and rear axle, which are hydraulically activated and deactivated by a switch in the center console. This increases front and rear axle lock by 70 mm or 2.76 inches, which improves ride comfort by minimizing body sway and enhancing off-pavement driving qualities and traction when negotiating rocks, tree trunks or bumps.

To ensure the Cayenne’s sporting driving qualities on the road, the anti-roll bars can only be disconnected in the low range mode. As soon as the Cayenne, with its anti-roll bars disconnected, returns from rough terrain to the road, the anti-roll bars are automatically reconnected once the vehicle exceeds 50 km/h or 31 mph to provide the additional stability required for on-pavement driving as a safety feature.

[quadzilla]

^^^^ WOW, that sounds like some pretty serious stuff.

[mmret]

Cayennes are oft used in the Dakar rally I believe (Touraegs too).

At least that was the case with the 1st gen where they were platform mates -- not sure if that has changed now.