Author Topic: What happened now?  (Read 6251 times)

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2012, 12:55:16 pm »
Lunch time conversation at work the other day:

"Aarman, do you think the US is going to attack Iran one day?" Aarman, an Iranian, living outside of his native country replies, "I hope so. I really do. It's the only way to get rid of the government". Silence falls, end of discussion.

I wouldn't be my money on the people of Iran rallying around their government. The regime are not the people, something that people in the West tend to not understand.

To be clear, I'm not saying that I believe the Iranian people will rally around the government. I'm just saying that that's what the Iranian government believes. It has happened before.

Prior to the second Gulf war, the Iranian government was just as unpopular as it is now. After the US invasion of Iraq, anti-US sentiment increased considerably in Iran and support for the government increased even though the US was attacking Iran’s erstwhile enemy.

The situation in Iran is complicated. The best policy is likely containment and allowing the Iranians to figure things out for themselves.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

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Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2012, 01:18:37 pm »
All this sabre rattling benefits Netanyahu to no end. No more attention on the Palestinians, he is free to expand the settlements in the West Bank.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/31/israeli-spending-west-bank-settlements


Offline Snowman

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2012, 01:23:21 pm »
I truly do not know what to say to a person who honestly finds more to worry about in relation to the US - a country that is admittedly not without fault - than a regime like Iran.   I find that perspective utterly remarkable.

Tell him he is correct.



 ;D  Another convert eh? 

Here's a suggestion - combine the next forum gathering with beer, wings, a cruise and a US flag burning ceremony (not necessarily in that order).

Not a hater or a lover. Just deal with the facts.

The claim that the US poses a bigger international threat than rogue states like Iran is not a fact but rather an opinion, and a readily contestable one at that.

Be that as it may, there is no point prolonging a clash of irreconcilable perspectives.

If I were a green Dewd that just landed from a long trip from Rigel 7 and looked at both nations as to who presented a bigger threat the answer would be clear.

Offline my2cents

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2012, 01:26:21 pm »
Egypt just finished a civil war in the name of democracy. They got to vote.

Who did they elect? The Muslim Brotherhood.

What is their stated goal? To eradicate Israel.

What are they doing now? Attacking the US embassy while still expecting $5 billion in funding from the US.

They are attacking US embassies all over the middle east. Why? Because somebody posted a clip on youtube pointing out that Mohammed married a 10 year old girl so they call him a pedophile. (I haven't seen it - but I suspect that's what it is).

Anyway - all the middle east countries are facing the same fate. Keep the dictators to keep them in line - or give them freedom to vote for Islamic law and proceed to try to eradicate all non Muslims.

This isn't a game.

Nobody has killed more Muslims than Muslims. They hate each other and they hate us. Just look at them every day on the news. Do they look sane to you?

If you can easily convince someone to blow himself up and he'll immediately go to heaven and get 72 virgins as a reward - you're dealing with some seriously brainwashed people.

Iran finances the Taliban and supplies weapons to kill our troops. That is an act of war.

In the same way the US told the Taliban to give up Bin Laden or suffer the consequences - Iran will suffer the consequences of all their meddling.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2012, 01:35:57 pm »
:iagree:, but I think part of the problem with the middle east is there is no functional love of democracy to rise up in the place of a dictatorship.  Iraq (and Libya, and Iran, and Syria) will once again devolve into a 'might is right' at the collapse of any organized goverment, democratic or despotic.  Enter the Taliban, stage right.

I'm not a poli-sci guy, but from what I understand, most of the middle eastern 'states' are arbitrarily hewn by former colonial powers forcing the traditional 'tribal' groups into disfuctional 'countries' (like Iraq, where a lot of the government is balanced between three+ groups).

Puppet states supported by the US or the Soveits (remeber THOSE guys?) in the middle east and elsewhere were a shade better than a full on dictatorship. 

Until the Millions of Muslims (or other religious stripes in the region) stand up to the hundreds Taliban and Al Quaeda militants, the region can / wants to subconsciously be governed by force.  Weapons are present everywhere, so it's not like the civilians are all unarmed.  There is no Stazi or KGB that evesdrops on the civi's to punish them with the Taliban, for example. 

What is worse - the middle east devolving into a a dozen Libyas, or the currenty situation.

The Middle East is in one sense a slave to historical grievances. You have the differences between ethnic groups like the Kurds, the Persians, the Arabs and the Semitic Israelis. You have the differences between a fistful of religions like the Protestant, Roman and Orthodox Christian sects, Orthodox and reformed Jews, the Shia and Sunni  Muslims and so on. Then ladled on top of that are the aftermaths of the different colonial powers from the Romans, Mongolians and Crusaders to the Soviets, British and Americans.

It’s no real wonder that they are in an almost perpetual state of conflict. They’ve never been static long enough to form cohesive countries.

Offline Snowman

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2012, 01:40:34 pm »

If I were a green Dewd that just landed from a long trip from Rigel 7 and looked at both nations as to who presented a bigger threat the answer would be clear.

Stop goading me - I have work to do!

You want to consider weaponry and military capability but nothing else.  Yes, the US I assume has the nuclear capability to end life as we know it on planet earth.  That is indeed a dangerous prospect.  I'd rather no nation state have this capability.  But I'd far rather the US have it than a state like Iran. 

If you think otherwise you need to give your head a shake.

Get back to work and stop wasting the clients money! :stick:

Weaponry and a history of use....or misuse  :popo:

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2012, 01:43:59 pm »

Stop goading me - I have work to do!

You want to consider weaponry and military capability but nothing else.  Yes, the US I assume has the nuclear capability to end life as we know it on planet earth.  That is indeed a dangerous prospect.  I'd rather no nation state have this capability.  But I'd far rather the US have it than a state like Iran. 

If you think otherwise you need to give your head a shake.

When was the last time Iran invaded anyone?

How many governments have they overthrown?

Now ask the same questions about the US.

It is impossible to seriously suggest that Iran creates more instability than the US.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 10:56:09 pm by Sir Osis of Liver »

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2012, 01:53:12 pm »
In the same way the US told the Taliban to give up Bin Laden or suffer the consequences - Iran will suffer the consequences of all their meddling.

It took 9 years and $3T for the US to conclude the Iraq war. Iraq has a population of 33M, Iran's is 75M. This math doesn't work out well for the US at all. And frankly Obama isn't interested being a practitioner of Realpolitik.

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2012, 01:57:45 pm »
Iran finances the Taliban and supplies weapons to kill our troops. That is an act of war.

It would be interesting how calm the US would be had say, China invaded and occupied Mexico and Canada after a terrorists from Venezula staged a dramatic terrorist attack on Shanghai.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2012, 02:02:16 pm »
All this sabre rattling benefits Netanyahu to no end. No more attention on the Palestinians, he is free to expand the settlements in the West Bank.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/31/israeli-spending-west-bank-settlements

 :iagree: His injecting himself into the US election was also a deliberate attempt to embarrass Obama. I don't think he's succeeded.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2012, 02:02:39 pm »
Iran finances the Taliban and supplies weapons to kill our troops. That is an act of war.

It would be interesting how calm the US would be had say, China invaded and occupied Mexico and Canada after a terrorists from Venezula staged a dramatic terrorist attack on Shanghai.

 ;D

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2012, 08:53:54 pm »
$4.08 a gallon in Watertown NY today

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2012, 02:16:21 am »
What are you doing in NY State, buying herbicides.  :)

$5.11 for 1 US gallon here in the OS ($1.34).  Wait till Americans reach that price.  :rofl2:

Offline tenpenny

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2012, 07:58:39 am »
I truly do not know what to say to a person who honestly finds more to worry about in relation to the US - a country that is admittedly not without fault - than a regime like Iran.   I find that perspective utterly remarkable.

Tell him he is correct.

 ;D  Another convert eh? 

Here's a suggestion - combine the next forum gathering with beer, wings, a cruise and a US flag burning ceremony (not necessarily in that order).

Not a hater or a lover. Just deal with the facts.

The claim that the US poses a bigger international threat than rogue states like Iran is not a fact but rather an opinion, and a readily contestable one at that.

Be that as it may, there is no point prolonging a clash of irreconcilable perspectives.
My diesel car self-identifies as an electric vehicle.

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2012, 06:16:14 pm »
What are you doing in NY State, buying herbicides.  :)

$5.11 for 1 US gallon here in the OS ($1.34).  Wait till Americans reach that price.  :rofl2:

 :shuffle:
wife had kohls dollars to use
I did go to lowes  ;D

Offline Snowman

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2012, 08:53:36 pm »
What are you doing in NY State, buying herbicides.  :)

$5.11 for 1 US gallon here in the OS ($1.34).  Wait till Americans reach that price.  :rofl2:

Herbicides banned in NY, I go to Michigan  :) Wife got cranky at me when we crossed at Port Huron with Crab Grass Killer.

Offline Blue01

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2012, 01:39:02 am »
And back to the original topic.  Apparently not much happened! Nothing to be exact! ;D


Offline safristi

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2012, 07:31:28 am »
AP you are a mensch.................. :thumbup: :banana: among mensches.... ;) tautologically speekin'.....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 07:38:12 am by safristi »
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline Snowman

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Re: What happened now?
« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2012, 08:09:40 am »

Herbicides banned in NY, I go to Michigan  :) Wife got cranky at me when we crossed at Port Huron with Crab Grass Killer.

How much duty did they assess when you declared the herbicide?  ;D

I transferred it into an empty bottle of windshield washer fluid  ;D