Topic: Camry Last in Globe & Mail Comparo

[UmroAyyar]

 

[random006]

+1

What a bizarre notion to require pics of every single thing one has claimed here.  OK Artic, where are yours?  Where are ALL of yours?


BTW, after 4 pages of this, I get the impression that the entire thread is one big case of:  "all sound and fury, signifying nothing".

[safristi]

  Shakespeare hates Genesis..................

[UmroAyyar]

+1

What a bizarre notion to require pics of every single thing one has claimed here.  OK Artic, where are yours?  Where are ALL of yours?


BTW, after 4 pages of this, I get the impression that the entire thread is one big case of:  "all sound and fury, signifying nothing".

I think the most useful comment was defining how all these midsize cars are so close in their features/capabilities?

Probably the toughest segment to compete in and its almost impossible for a decision to buy one to go horribly wrong. People who own these cars and live with them on daily basis are a better judge than most of the "pox on your choice crowd".

The targetted demographic votes with their dollars on these.

[Angry Chicken]

You can't win. You don't understand the cliques around here, its pretty ingrained. Nobody is going to give you any slack, nobody is going to change their opinion (ever), nobody is even going to imply they are willing to listen to you.

So its simple. Save your energy, stop trying.

Amen.   

[footlong58]

Why would I have bothered taking pictures of Camry's I've driven?? They are Camry's, not Ferraris. I'm not going to put their photos in an album to tell future generations about all the Toyota Camry's I drove in my day. 

I've driven the last 3 gens (99-02, 02-06, 07-now) and they all drove sloppy, had spongy brakes with no feel, over boosted and vague steering... Other Toyotas (ie Corolla) are the same deal. I just don't understand how anybody who actually cares about driving and road feel would want one over the other awesome cars in the category

 

WOW!  I've never seen AS not have anything to say!

[WpgMonty]

^^^  What Umro said.

"People who own these cars and live with them on daily basis are a better judge than most of the "pox on your choice crowd".

The targetted demographic votes with their dollars on these."

I was going to make some caustic comment, but it would only add to the sound and fury of the thread. Instead, I'll add to the "debate" (as it is).

I owned a Corolla, presently am the owner of a Yaris, regularly drove 2 different generations of Camry as a company car, our present work vehicle is a Rav4, preceeded by a Sienna, preceeded by two different generations of Tercels. I don't have any pictures to prove the above stated facts, so you'll have to take my word on above said facts, though. I would say that I have owned and driven enough Toyota products in the last 20 years to be able to post an opinion without getting insulted and flamed.

Each of the above vehicles were purchased/leased because Toyotas are reliable, durable and retain high resale values. Not one of the cars was purchased/leased because of awesome driving dynamics or blistering performance. I hesitate to guess how many people bought a Camry based on driving dynamics, but I suspect it's a very miniscule percentage. Most customers buy a Camry, and most of the other Toyota products for those reasons; to wit: reliability, durability and retained value.

I'm no Toyota fanboy, if anything I've become a cheering section for Ford, but Toyota builds what people want; that's why they're number one in global sales. I mean, come on, they're usually more expensive than the competition and Toyota  dealerships are notoriously pompous and haughty (again, I've got enough experience over 20 years with several local dealers to make this claim), but yet they sell Camrys in record numbers. Why? As Umro pointed out, consumers have voted with their wallets, and most of them are not "drivers" so much as pilots. The Camry and the Accord rule for a reason.

And so what if it finished sixth in a six car field? If it was a horse race, they all would have finished within the length of a nose, that's how close all these family sedans are. Can't some of you give credit where it's due? And those of you that are fanboys, geez lighten up a little when your favourite is getting some criticism. Have a serving of some graciousness and dignity everybody.

[safristi]

..may i serve this to the offendors..............??...........

[Seafoam]

^^^  What Umro said.

"People who own these cars and live with them on daily basis are a better judge than most of the "pox on your choice crowd".

The targetted demographic votes with their dollars on these."

I was going to make some caustic comment, but it would only add to the sound and fury of the thread. Instead, I'll add to the "debate" (as it is).

I owned a Corolla, presently am the owner of a Yaris, regularly drove 2 different generations of Camry as a company car, our present work vehicle is a Rav4, preceeded by a Sienna, preceeded by two different generations of Tercels. I don't have any pictures to prove the above stated facts, so you'll have to take my word on above said facts, though. I would say that I have owned and driven enough Toyota products in the last 20 years to be able to post an opinion without getting insulted and flamed.

Each of the above vehicles were purchased/leased because Toyotas are reliable, durable and retain high resale values. Not one of the cars was purchased/leased because of awesome driving dynamics or blistering performance. I hesitate to guess how many people bought a Camry based on driving dynamics, but I suspect it's a very miniscule percentage. Most customers buy a Camry, and most of the other Toyota products for those reasons; to wit: reliability, durability and retained value.

I'm no Toyota fanboy, if anything I've become a cheering section for Ford, but Toyota builds what people want; that's why they're number one in global sales. I mean, come on, they're usually more expensive than the competition and Toyota  dealerships are notoriously pompous and haughty (again, I've got enough experience over 20 years with several local dealers to make this claim), but yet they sell Camrys in record numbers. Why? As Umro pointed out, consumers have voted with their wallets, and most of them are not "drivers" so much as pilots. The Camry and the Accord rule for a reason.

And so what if it finished sixth in a six car field? If it was a horse race, they all would have finished within the length of a nose, that's how close all these family sedans are. Can't some of you give credit where it's due? And those of you that are fanboys, geez lighten up a little when your favourite is getting some criticism. Have a serving of some graciousness and dignity everybody.

well said

[Erik]

Why would I have bothered taking pictures of Camry's I've driven?? They are Camry's, not Ferraris. I'm not going to put their photos in an album to tell future generations about all the Toyota Camry's I drove in my day. 

I've driven the last 3 gens (99-02, 02-06, 07-now) and they all drove sloppy, had spongy brakes with no feel, over boosted and vague steering... Other Toyotas (ie Corolla) are the same deal. I just don't understand how anybody who actually cares about driving and road feel would want one over the other awesome cars in the category.

The new ones have cruddy interiors full of hard plastics, uneven panel gaps and are worse than even the new Chevy Malibu or refreshed Hyundai Sonata.

I've heard the new SE is a different car... I haven't driven one of those... but why have a sloppy car thats dressed up when you can have one that has better dynamics to begin with?? (6, Altima, Accord) The Camry has been getting worse every generation while everybody else gets better.

The Camry is the definition of an appliance on wheels... it does nothing better than its competitors, but it has the reputation of being a "safe" choice so it sells to a lot of people who don't care/know about cars.

Very true.
What surprises me is the fact that the Camry made enough of an impression on you that you would remember ANY of them.
Kinda like what is the best store bought vanilla ice cream you ever had: People buy that the most too.

[Squishy]

I've heard the new SE is a different car... I haven't driven one of those... but why have a sloppy car thats dressed up when you can have one that has better dynamics to begin with?? (6, Altima, Accord) The Camry has been getting worse every generation while everybody else gets better.

If you are referring to the handling, some people actually prefer a big floaty car, myself included.  I don't take corners very fast and that oscillating motion after a bump just...makes me happy.

I didn't notice that in the fifth gen Camry I drove, though.  Maybe the handling is sloppy compared to other Japanese models, but I found it nowhere near as floaty as our old Buick.  I recently drove both a 97 Cadillac Seville STS and an 01 Lincoln Town Car and they were both very floaty, in a good way.

[barrie1]

You should try a newer STS and see just how good the rear end is planted as they do corner extremely well and fast also on dry roads. Theres No floating around in the newer additions in my view. I don't race my cars but I like to know what they can do if I ever have to do it. 

[rrocket]

STS??  Are you kidding us?  The CTS isn't even in the same class as the Camry, Honda, etc.. let alone the STS.

For starters, it's not available with a 4 banger (like the others).  Then, the base price is ohhh...$40,000 compared to $20's for the others.  And the STS?  Base price $60,000 or so.

I think maybe you've posted in the wrong thread perhaps?? 

[Squishy]

The comparison only involved suspension setups, for which base price is not a definitive indicator.  I have not driven any Buicks lately (which are more comparable overall to a Camry) so I had to go with the more upscale models.

[mpsrent]

Before anyone asks, no I did not take a picture of every car I have driven. 

I am shopping for a mid size car. I really wanted to like the Camry. I test drove an LE 4cyl automatic on the assumption that this is what I was buying. The car was drop dead boring. A nice car and likely a good car, but boring.

I test drove an Altima 4cyl CVT in some wild winter weather this week. The CVT took a little to get use to. I noticed the engine braking at very low speed. Having said that, it is a very nice car with good power (4cyl is 1990's 6cyl power) and a good sporty ride. Without getting into a Nissan/Toyota debate (no loyalty, never owned either) the Altima did have personality. The Camry had not personality. It was a car.

I look forward to trying a new Accord. I might even try a Mazda 6. I could try a Mailibu but I really want to move away from GM.

[Honda Owner]

You should try a newer STS and see just how good the rear end is planted as they do corner extremely well and fast also on dry roads.

On my last trip to Europe, I had the chance to drive a Mercedes Benz E320 CDi. It was way nicer than a 4 cyl Camry.

[Ice]

Before anyone asks, no I did not take a picture of every car I have driven. 

I am shopping for a mid size car. I really wanted to like the Camry. I test drove an LE 4cyl automatic on the assumption that this is what I was buying. The car was drop dead boring. A nice car and likely a good car, but boring.

I test drove an Altima 4cyl CVT in some wild winter weather this week. The CVT took a little to get use to. I noticed the engine braking at very low speed. Having said that, it is a very nice car with good power (4cyl is 1990's 6cyl power) and a good sporty ride. Without getting into a Nissan/Toyota debate (no loyalty, never owned either) the Altima did have personality. The Camry had not personality. It was a car.

I look forward to trying a new Accord. I might even try a Mazda 6. I could try a Mailibu but I really want to move away from GM.

Did you try the Camry SE?  Its a very different car...not everyone knows or fully appreciates that. It may still not be what you're after but its worth consideration.

My parents have an Accord (new one) and I think its a brilliant midsize sedan (bordering on full size).  I've driven a 4 cyl Altima and that was quite a bit of fun and quite a bit of power too...but I didn't like the interior so much.  In any case the key thing in this segment...and probably in most other segments is to just go out and do the test drives and see which one suits you best.

All of these cars are competitive to the extreme with one another and I don't think there is a clear winner amongst them.  Every review you read of these has a completely different order of which car came out ahead if thats any indication.

[Iso Octane]

Honestly, I miss the days when you could really rip on a car.  The days when stereotypes were true.  Heck, the time upon which stereotypes were built.

Nowadays the only thing to talk about is styling.  Love it or hate it, how it looks is the most important differentiator because mechanically they all perform just fine (TSBs and recalls notwithstanding.)  I used to love following the bread and butter cars because they were so different.  The "domestics" were really crappy, cheesy interiors, rusty after a while.  Then there was the Camry which was super smooth.  Each generation brought massive change and that was exciting.  But IMO we've now reached some sort of a plateau.  All the mainstreamers have converged, and there really isn't anything in it anymore.  They're all quality offerings.  None of them are sports cars.  The Altima may look the most potent, but it's not much if at all sharper than a Camry to be quite honest. 

Pick the one that you feel best expresses your personality.  Yup... personality...