Topic: car insurance

[dorin]

I find it funny when I hear the old wifes tale that if you call your insurance company for advice they will rate you just from letting them know something happened.

Hogwash.

At least in Alberta, I work in a claims department with TD insurance and that couldn't be further from the truth. You pay premiums for a service, you would only see a negative impact to your rates if you filed a claim that you were at-fault for, and something was ultimately paid out... nothing paid... no negative rating. I've never heard of other companys that do anything like that either in my circles.

It might be hogwash at your company in your province, but how do you know it's hogwash in a completely difference jurisdiction?  Full of yourself much? 

Almost 10 years ago I made the stupid mistake of leaving my brand new bicycle in the back of my parents' car parked on the street outside of my apartment in downtown Ottawa.  It was 2 am and I was supposed to go riding early in the morning so I figured it wasn't worth the hassle to take it out.  Lo and behold, someone smashed the window and stole the bike out of the back seat.  I made the mistake of calling the insurance company to ask what they would cover.  In the end we didn't make a claim because they said they wouldn't cover the bike and it wasn't worth it just for the window after the deductible.  However, based solely on that call, my father lost his 6 stars no-claim rating and the 10% discount that went with it.  So it's not hogwash at all when it comes to Ontario insurance...

[ArticSteve]

What Dorin described is also happening in the residential market.  Have 2 minor claims in 5 years, after having none for 30 years, and kiss finding another company after your current one doubles your rate or cuts you off.  10 years ago not an issue.  Today there is just no meaningful government oversight over the behaviour of these pirates.  They will continue to feast on their prey.   

[safristi]

  Artic...Pics of the Auto SHOW attendees on the proper thread PLEASE....

[prail1]

Full of myself? Hardly. I did put the disclaimer for Alberta, and that I found it difficult to believe that would only be the case in Ontario.

For the other fellows question I work as a senior claims adjuster.

Which company were you insured with? It's normal that an auto policy would not cover the bicycle, did you carry some from of homeowners/condo/tenant insurance? Such a loss would be recoverable under that policy, if you carry both lines with the same company they generally should treat that as the same loss and apply one deductible between the two.

So your telling me word for word that you found out from the insurance company/broker on your renewal your rates went up because of that inquiry call? Did your parents file any other claims for the period?

[Snowman]

I don’t like the collusion strategies imposed by Ontario auto insurance companies…. But when my wife had her accident "they" dished out +/-$90k to cover ALL the costs relating to the six month period my wife was recovering from two broken kegs, a shattered knee, and an ankle the extra. The extra $600/year we paid for the next 4 years was nothing considering she was charged with careless driving because she had a single vehicle accident while falling asleep at the wheel. I feel very fortunate.

[dorin]

Full of myself? Hardly. I did put the disclaimer for Alberta, and that I found it difficult to believe that would only be the case in Ontario.

For the other fellows question I work as a senior claims adjuster.

Which company were you insured with? It's normal that an auto policy would not cover the bicycle, did you carry some from of homeowners/condo/tenant insurance? Such a loss would be recoverable under that policy, if you carry both lines with the same company they generally should treat that as the same loss and apply one deductible between the two.

So your telling me word for word that you found out from the insurance company/broker on your renewal your rates went up because of that inquiry call? Did your parents file any other claims for the period?

I guess there was a disclaimer in there, but it was two lines down from the "hogwash" comment and in a completely different paragraph so it didn't register.  Next time you might want to put the disclaimer next to the statement it's meant to apply to. 

Word for word.  Car and house policies were with the same company.  They did not agree to apply only a single deductible.  My parents' rate did go up and there were no other claims or inquiries other than for that particular incident.  I think we're talking about The Personal but I'm not entirely sure.

[jbbadboy]

In fact, Pilot Insurance is the largest of the companies in our brokerage...I've been insured with them myself for coming up to 6 years! 

What you state above CAN happen, but rarely does. Each accident is different and can't possibly be looked at individually here. 

Brokers DO NOT charge clients more for their services. This is unfortunately another misconception about brokers. Brokerages are paid a set percentage of the premiums written for an insurance company. However, rates are strictly regulated and you will find no difference getting a Pilot quote from my office in Toronto than from a brokerage operating in Sudbury with everything (vehicle/coverage etc.) being the same.

If a broker were to quote you the lowest premium of all the companies they represent, let's say $1000 and you get a quote with a direct writer for $950, it is not the brokerage charging you the $50 difference for it's services, the $50 is only a difference in price.
 
The point I was trying to make is that a broker, including yours, is supposed to be an insurance advisor to you and should be there to answer all of your questions and not scare you into thinking you shouldn't ask. It's this relationship that is the major difference in the relationship between broker & client vs. client & direct writer.

Brokers DO NOT charge clients more for their services.

Sure they do.  Every year along with my policy I get a disclosure form stating that the brokerage company is  receiving a commission anywhere from 10 to 20%  from the insurance company that underwrites my policy.  So you say: Brokers DO NOT charge clients more for their services  Correct.  But what you don't say is that you receive a commission from the company, obviously.  It amounts to the same thing.

Now I'm still with a broker because for me there is still value in their service even though I might save a few bucks with a direct insurer.   I have tried numerous options and I believe the broker system is better on the claims end of things which is really the main service one is buying.

The point I was trying to make is that a broker, including yours, is supposed to be an insurance advisor to you and should be there to answer all of your questions and not scare you into thinking you shouldn't ask.

Of course.   But their first obligation is to the company.  Example:  You as a broker get a call from one of your customers insured by the Pilot.  They say they hit something like a tree or a rock and there might be 3K in damage.  They ask what is their best option economically.  Submit a claim, pay the deductible and get the insurance company to pay for the repair or just suck it up and pay out of pocket because future rate increases would exceed the cost of repair.  Oh, and by the way the girl friend was a little banged up, but is fine now. 

What the h*ll are you going to say to that    Legally, the Pilot which has contracted to insure your client is on the hook for any injuries that the girl friend might have sustained and she has 6 YEARS to bring any claims forward in Ontario (period of limitations).  The Pilot needs to know that the potential of a law suit (loss) exists.  The Pilot has the right and wants the right to begin a defense of any possible claim and to minimize any loss from it.  Your non disclosure of any knowledge of an event that puts them at liability no matter how remote supersedes any off hand privacy that you have with a client.  Read the policy and the brokerage agreements.

My response in this situation is to make sure the girlfriend is fine (since you've already touched on the economic results of claiming above). I would also ask you to call me if anything changes in the girlfriend's medical condition. As far as I understand it, (I'm not a claims expert), an accident benefit claim for the girlfriend would be paid first by any medical plan she may have through her employer (if there is coverage for this), then under her own auto insurance policy (if she has one) and failing that, under your policy. You also have up to one year to submit a claim on your auto insurance policy.

Whenever you call me as your broker I note our conversation on your file in our office. This information is not accessible by your insurer unless requested during an investigation, which is rare. If you call me back and tell me that things have gotten worse and she needs medical help then a decision on how to submit the claim can then occur. Upon reporting your claim it will be noted that previous conversations had taken place between broker and client (on what days and what we discussed) and can be proven by the notes on your broker's files to show that this isn't a quickly falsified claim. If the girlfriend turns out to be fine then the incident ends there. Notes are never erased but no claim is submitted and your insurer does have any record of an incident occurring as your policy has not been affected.

With respect to your commission point, the disclosure form that brokers provide with your policy is telling you what the brokerage is given by an insurance company for writing and servicing your policy. It is not a commission per se, it is what the insurance company pays the brokerage. If your premium is $1000, your statement is telling you that the brokerage is given $100-$200 of your premium for the writing and servicing of your policy. This document is provided to let you know exactly what your broker is paid and so you are aware that your premiums are influenced by your broker.

I hope that helps.

[ArticSteve]

OK, so from what I've read from the above is that if your client has a bang up, while he has ppl in his (insured's) car, but circumstances allow him to call you up to discuss the merits of filing a collision claim or not, you are not obligated, by virtue of your brokerage agreement with the Pilot, to notify them that they MIGHT be exposed to a personal injury claim that can be filed against them any time in the next 6 years, long after your client (insured) has moved on to another company or moved out of Province.  You see the legal complications regarding this kind of thing.  Supposedly that is the reason behind the Pilot wanting full and immediate disclosure from their brokers.

I gotta call my Pilot lady on Monday anyways so I will ask again. 

[jbbadboy]

I look at my job as one of being an advisor for my client. In any situation, claim-related or not, my focus first is to do what is best for my client.

I definitely see the legal complications here and each claim is unique. If there is an accident with people being hurt more than the usual minor soft tissue/headache that may occur for a couple of days then I recommend that it's best to submit a claim. Damaged cars can be fixed or replaced, health is more important.

[barrie1]

I had a claim about a year and half ago on my homeowners policy which is also wrapped up together with my vehicles as well. This did not raise my cost at all last year as i actually went down. my Shed which was a 10x14 collapsed under the weight of the ice and snow and was reolaced by them with a cheque for $2700. I added $600. to it and had one built by the Mennonites in our area. Much superior building and should last for at least 50 years easily. Its all wood with vinyl siding and they used No.1 houselumber as well. 

[fina]

What about Belairdirect?

I think this is your best option. I just signed up with them.