Topic: Saab's "XWD" isn't just a slip-and-grip system

[Mitlov]

Maybe this is old news to others here, but I just learned from my May Automobile Magazine that the "XWD" that Saab is putting into its 9-3 models is more than just a traditional slip-and-grip system.  Well let me clarify--if you just get a 9-3 XWD, it's slip-and-grip.  But if you get a 9-3 XWD with the optional eLSD (the acronym ghbPCP was rejected), then it actually engages in prospective torque-vectoring, much like Acura's SH-AWD.  Automobile wrote:

Near the end of our test-driving day, Saab handed us the keys to a 9-3 Turbo X for a very brief eLSD test on the ice.  Immediately, we felt the rear diff at work.  Turn-in was far more eager, and the chassis and handling balance felt more neutral.  The Turbo X was also more stable during quick transitions compared to the 9-3 without eLSD.  More important, the Saab system felt more cohesive and linear than does Acura's more complex SH-AWD.

If Acura continues to refuse to make a turbo SH-AWD TSX with 6MT, and if Audi does, in fact, refuse to offer a B8-generation A4 with both quattro and a manual in North America, then a 9-3 Aero XWD with eLSD and 6MT looks pretty darned tempting (at least if you're willing to overlook Saab's little reliability ratings issue).  I'll make mine a Turbo X, retro wheels and all:

[jcon]

Maybe this is old news to others here, but I just learned from my May Automobile Magazine that the "XWD" that Saab is putting into its 9-3 models is more than just a traditional slip-and-grip system.  Well let me clarify--if you just get a 9-3 XWD, it's slip-and-grip.  But if you get a 9-3 XWD with the optional eLSD (the acronym ghbPCP was rejected), then it actually engages in prospective torque-vectoring, much like Acura's SH-AWD.  Automobile wrote:

[Spheric]

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the relative lateness of Volvo and Saab into the AWD market. Given the arctic Scandinavian winters I would thought that Volvo/Saab would have been the earliest adopters of 4WD/AWD technologies. I guess folks in Stockholm use winter tires a lot.

[The Mighty Duck]

I've always found Saabs very expensive for what you get, but they're very pretty and by all accounts the engine is a dream.  I imagine my "poor value" tune could be changed by a Turbo Saab with a proper AWD system...

Cool.

[ktm525]

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the relative lateness of Volvo and Saab into the AWD market. Given the arctic Scandinavian winters I would thought that Volvo/Saab would have been the earliest adopters of 4WD/AWD technologies. I guess folks in Stockholm use winter tires a lot.

Volvo had some AWD models available:

[ghost]

Just wait for GM's stupid discounts.... You can get a 9-3 SS for the price of a v6 camry.

[initial_D]

Would make one awesome used car buy for a winter sports car!

[TopGun]

I'll make mine a Turbo X, retro wheels and all:

Nice...if I can get it in a non-black interior.

The one they had at the Toronto Auto show looked like a really dark purple.

A great used car buy indeed!

_{Edit:  Read article on NetCarShow.com...only black interiors...argh.}

[gottarondo]

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the relative lateness of Volvo and Saab into the AWD market. Given the arctic Scandinavian winters I would thought that Volvo/Saab would have been the earliest adopters of 4WD/AWD technologies. I guess folks in Stockholm use winter tires a lot.

...and thus don't believe that winter driving needs to cost a lot a big technological assist?

[initial_D]

Proper tires and common sense is more important in winter driving. State of the Art Techno is no match against Stupidity. 

[HeliDriver]

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the relative lateness of Volvo and Saab into the AWD market. Given the arctic Scandinavian winters I would thought that Volvo/Saab would have been the earliest adopters of 4WD/AWD technologies. I guess folks in Stockholm use winter tires a lot.

Scandinavians are a pretty frugal, practical bunch. Think back to the pre-Ford and -GM days of Volvo 240s and Saab 99s. To me, those cars are a perfect reflection of the no-nonsense Scandinavian mindset. A true Swede could get anywhere he needed to go with nothing more than four decent winter tires, so why bother with the added expense and complexity of AWD?

I see the introduction of AWD on Volvos and Saabs as pure Ford/GM influence, and almost a betrayal of the cars' heritage.

[dorin]

[Mitlov]

In my opinion--and this was backed by some comments by a Saab official in the Automobile article--the move to AWD has more to do with the horsepower wars than winter ability.  I don't think it's a coincidence that XWD was released the same year that the 9-3 Aero got 270+ horsepower.

You can make a really sweet-handling FWD car with 200 hp or less (GTI, Civic Si, Mini Cooper S, TSX).  With only a couple exceptions (Mazdaspeed3), building a sweet-handling FWD car with substantially more power is difficult.  Even when you do, the torque steer is monstrous.

[initial_D]

 

Also AWD is great term that can be used to market a car, any car.

[HeliDriver]

In my opinion--and this was backed by some comments by a Saab official in the Automobile article--the move to AWD has more to do with the horsepower wars than winter ability.  I don't think it's a coincidence that XWD was released the same year that the 9-3 Aero got 270+ horsepower.

You can make a really sweet-handling FWD car with 200 hp or less (GTI, Civic Si, Mini Cooper S, TSX).  With only a couple exceptions (Mazdaspeed3), building a sweet-handling FWD car with substantially more power is difficult.  Even when you do, the torque steer is monstrous.

True. Just look back a few years to the 93 Viggen. That car seemed like a disaster to me, although it did seem to have its fans. 

[Mitlov]

Autoblog just reviewed the Turbo X, and they really liked it:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/22/first-drive-saab-turbo-x/

Saab's TurboX is a vehicle you can mention in the same breath as the BMW 3-series without any shame.

[Snowman]

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the relative lateness of Volvo and Saab into the AWD market. Given the arctic Scandinavian winters I would thought that Volvo/Saab would have been the earliest adopters of 4WD/AWD technologies. I guess folks in Stockholm use winter tires a lot.

Scandinavians are a pretty frugal, practical bunch. Think back to the pre-Ford and -GM days of Volvo 240s and Saab 99s. To me, those cars are a perfect reflection of the no-nonsense Scandinavian mindset. A true Swede could get anywhere he needed to go with nothing more than four decent winter tires, so why bother with the added expense and complexity of AWD?

I see the introduction of AWD on Volvos and Saabs as pure Ford/GM influence, and almost a betrayal of the cars' heritage.

Disposable income due to extremely high income taxes is the real issue. When I was there two years ago 60% of the workforce is receiving a pay cheque from the government.

[Mitlov]

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the relative lateness of Volvo and Saab into the AWD market. Given the arctic Scandinavian winters I would thought that Volvo/Saab would have been the earliest adopters of 4WD/AWD technologies. I guess folks in Stockholm use winter tires a lot.

Scandinavians are a pretty frugal, practical bunch. Think back to the pre-Ford and -GM days of Volvo 240s and Saab 99s. To me, those cars are a perfect reflection of the no-nonsense Scandinavian mindset. A true Swede could get anywhere he needed to go with nothing more than four decent winter tires, so why bother with the added expense and complexity of AWD?

I see the introduction of AWD on Volvos and Saabs as pure Ford/GM influence, and almost a betrayal of the cars' heritage.

Disposable income due to extremely high income taxes is the real issue. When I was there two years ago 60% of the workforce is receiving a pay cheque from the government.

Wait...low disposable income caused by high taxes have prevented Volvo and Saab from adopting AWD until very recently?  AWD isn't very expensive at all.  Look at the Suzuki SX4.  The fact is, both Volvo and Saab are upscale/premium brands.  If Swedes were so poor that they couldn't afford AWD, Volvo and Saab would be budget brands like Kia.

[Snowman]

One thing that has constantly surprised me is the relative lateness of Volvo and Saab into the AWD market. Given the arctic Scandinavian winters I would thought that Volvo/Saab would have been the earliest adopters of 4WD/AWD technologies. I guess folks in Stockholm use winter tires a lot.

Scandinavians are a pretty frugal, practical bunch. Think back to the pre-Ford and -GM days of Volvo 240s and Saab 99s. To me, those cars are a perfect reflection of the no-nonsense Scandinavian mindset. A true Swede could get anywhere he needed to go with nothing more than four decent winter tires, so why bother with the added expense and complexity of AWD?

I see the introduction of AWD on Volvos and Saabs as pure Ford/GM influence, and almost a betrayal of the cars' heritage.

Disposable income due to extremely high income taxes is the real issue. When I was there two years ago 60% of the workforce is receiving a pay cheque from the government.

Wait...low disposable income caused by high taxes have prevented Volvo and Saab from adopting AWD until very recently?  AWD isn't very expensive at all.  Look at the Suzuki SX4.  The fact is, both Volvo and Saab are upscale/premium brands.  If Swedes were so poor that they couldn't afford AWD, Volvo and Saab would be budget brands like Kia.

I was responding to “Scandinavians are a pretty frugal, practical bunch” in SirCivic’s post. While in Scandinavia I was amazed by the number of bicycles being driven, even in the winter, and how efficient the rail transportation system was. Upon further discussions with the locals car ownership is limited to people with well paying jobs and out of reach of the average person.

A good friend of mine here in Sudbury who is a GM for a large Swedish Multinational picked up his boss from Sweden at the airport in his XC-90 only to discover that all he could afford back home was a Chrysler Caravan.