Topic: H vs T vs Q winter tires??

[coolnoob]

Greetings all,

I am driving a 1990 Acura Integra and this will be my first winter driving experience.  I live in Edmonton and I'll be expecting the worst of winter, so definately be getting winter tires, but there's a lot of good choices, and I am not sure which tire and speed rating to go with(currently driving BFG traction t/a -H).  Here's my dilemma:

Dunlop WinterSport M3, a couple of the Kumho's(KW-11, KW-17), and I am sure there are other better?

I'll be mainly driving in the city with some highway and safety is my first priority, price is another too.  What's a noob to do 

[morty]

M3 and Kw17 are wonderful tires. They will offer more similar driving to your current tires with very good winter capability. If you are really concerned with deep snow and ice condtions then the Q and T-rated tires will be better. They have softer tread compund and casing that works better in the more extreme conditions.

If you are mostly driving in city conditions the I would steer you towards the H-Rated type winters. If you are really concerned with extreme ice and snow and plan on adventuring out to more rural areas the you might consider the Q and T-Rated tires like the KW11

[coolnoob]

Great, thanks Morty for the prompt response!  Though I can't seem to find any H rated for my tire size.

[coolnoob]

Ok so I am furthering my dilemma.  Hope you guys can help me out. I get access to a discount at Canadiantire.  Their best winter tire for my tire size is the Michelin X-Ice (Q-rated).  Total price comes to $121.40 per tire and that includes everything (install, balance, tire levy, and GST) and also factoring in the $50 rebate.  Not a bad price, so I am going to consider this tire as well.  However I am still interested in 2 of Kumho's offerings(KW-11 and KW-17) both T-rated. 

So what do you guys think?  Consumer Reports recently rated the X-Ice as their top winter, but how does it compare to the 2 Kumho's?  Again, safety and handling is definately my priority.

[morningla]

hey, what tire size was that price quoted for? I'm looking for some winter tires too, I called Can tire and I found that the X-Ice and their own Nordic Icetrack is around the same price for 195/60/14.  I was thinking if the price is similar, i might as well go with branded ones.  around $700+ for everything including the steelies.

[johngenx]

This will be my 23rd Edmonton driving winter, and I always use the best winter tires possible.  Sure, more than half the time the roads are pretty decent, but when they're not, they are HORRIBLE.  A cold snap will bring black ice and intersections that are worse than skating rinks.  The other problem is crazed drivers sliding through intersections on their 2/32 all-season tires.  You need great ice/snow handling to avoid the loons.

Edmonton has a reputation for not plowing their roads, and it's well deserved.  Residential streets are not plowed for the duration of the winter and conditions can get downright awful.  And the freeways can be really bad as well.  Many times I've driven down the Whitemud Freeway (one of the businest roads in the city) with snow scraping the undercarriage of the car.

I had h-rated snows (Pilot Alpins) for one year on the Mercedes and then tossed them out.  We've been running Blizzaks, studded KW-11's and other no-compromises snow tires and I'd never change now.

[coolnoob]

morningla: actually the quoted total price I got from Can.tire for 195/60R14 for X-Ice came to $158.9/tire, but after I purchase my merchandise certificates at a discounted price, and factoring the $50 visa card rebate it comes to $121.40.  The X-Ice and Icetrac about the same price? Wow, here there's a $50 difference between the two.  Sound like you're getting a sweet deal.

johngenx:  thanks! always welcome to hear from a fellow Edmontonian.  When will you be changing to winters and how do find the studs for Edmonton weather?  Did you find any noticable compromises when driving in non-ice conditions? 

[phil]

I usually stick on my Pilot Alpins at the end of October.  But they are H-rated, so a warm spell or no snow is not as much of an issue.  I hate the Whitemud, esp. west of 159 St, and the drive to Banff or Jasper can be tricky as well, even if there is no snow.  I, too, am confronted with the dilemma to switch to Q-rated to deal with these issues.  The problem is that sometimes the Pilots stay on to early May, since a spring flurry is not uncommon around here.  But I don't want to drive Q tires when the snow has melted or I go spring skiing in Banff. 

P

[morty]

Only thing we have available in 195/60/14 H-rating is the Blizzak LM-18.

[random006]

Only thing we have available in 195/60/14 H-rating is the Blizzak LM-18.

Ah but that's the heart of the issue, isn't it?  H rated winter tires are still an oddity.  I understand that the numbers are rising but the average driver looking for H rated winters to replace H rated all seasons is not likely to find such a beast, is he?

[morningla]

Sorry, I was wrong, the price between IceTrac and X-Ice is around $50 ea. coz of the discount.  The tech must have quoted me the overall price of each tire the phone.

ice trac install will still cost me $600+ with steelies.  I might try to find a used set this year and replace the tires later on.

[coolnoob]

phil:  Keep us updated on what you decide to run on 

morningla:  I am trying to find myself a used set of steelies too.  good luck.

[johngenx]

...johngenx:  thanks! always welcome to hear from a fellow Edmontonian.  When will you be changing to winters and how do find the studs for Edmonton weather?  Did you find any noticable compromises when driving in non-ice conditions? 

I will either switch the morning of the first big snow (I have them on steels in the garage) or Nov 1, whichever comes first.

I drove for years on studded tires without any problems.  I often drive to Jasper and then down the Parkway (terrible conditions most of the time on 93) and the studded tires were superb.  However, this year I have opted to install the new Bridgestone Revo One on the Mercedes and the WS-50 on the Forester.  We're going to try studless and see how it goes.  I think I'll get some chains for the trunk, just in case.  Coming back from a few nights in the backcountry, we've come to the car to find a METER or more of new snow and nearly impassable roads.

In the city, no problems on the studs.  They wear faster on dry roads, and I suppose they're noisy.  On the Mercedes, I never noticed the noise as the car has a great deal of sound insulation.  You have to take a bit of care on wet pavement, but overall I wouldn't call them un-safe by any stretch.

H-rated snow tires are just too compromised for me in the snow/ice department.  I had one white-knuckle winter on the Pilot Alpins.  They're not bad in the city (though they're not a great ice tire compared to Blizzaks or studded tires) but I had several "holy cow we're not making it home" drives on the Icefields Parkway.  I'd hop in my wife's car (she had an E-Class the winter I had the Pilot Alpins) and couldn't believe the advantage her Blizzaks gave her over my Pilot Alpin equipped C-Class.  Her car had the ESP and I rarely saw the low-traction warning light flash, even on glare ice.  She was hooked and hasn't run anything but Blizzaks since...

People about the Blizzaks and the fact that the ice-grip compound goes away after 55% is worn, but I pitch my snow tires out when they get down to 5-6/32 anyway.

[ktm525]

Good points Johngen but I wouldn't throw all H rated winter tires into the same pile. I think a good deal of your problems were the Michelins. I had Pilot Alpins as well on my Contour SVT and like you got rid of them after one year. I replaced the Pilots for the Artic Alpins and they were not much better. They were OK on ice but terrible in the snow (for a winter tire). It looks like Michelin went back to snow school and came out with the X-Ice. This new tire looks waaay different from the Arctic Alpin so I think Michelin knew their first design was not so hot. I am currently running some Hankook W400's that are H rated and have been happy with them. They don't have the bite of a Hakka but they have clawed my poor Passat through a couple feet of fresh stuff on the Smith Dorrien. On the plus side the sidewall is a little stiffer so when I hit Hwy 1 going east at the end of a day I can feel confident tucking in behind that BMW pulling 150 km/h.