Topic: Pilot Alpin Replacement for 1.6

[phil]

So, last spring on this board I asked about running my Pilot Alpins through the summer on my 2000 Acura 1.6 to get the maximum mileage out of them before replacement.  I tried it until June, but found that their traction in hot weather was unsafe and put on my summer tires. 

I may be able to get another winter out of the Pilots, but they are now 5 yrs old with 45,000km and but I would prefer to get new ones if I find a good price here in Edmonton or at Tiretrends.  Here are the options I am considering in 195/55/15:

Kumho KW17
Blizzak LM-22
W300 IceBear
Pirelli Winter210
Nokian RSI


Last year I was leaning toward the  Kumhos, but reviews since have been so-so.  The Nokians would be ideal here in Edmonton, but I'm not sure I want to go from an V-rated summer and H-rated winter tire down to an "R" (which is essentially a Q).  Would it really mess up my handling?  I wish the Dunlop M3 came in my size, but they don't.

I'd appreciate your opinions.  It would be easy to just pick the best tire in the ice and snow, but, unfortunately, life in Edmonton means snowtires are on for at least 6 months and handling has to be a consideration. 

Thanks,
Phil

[oversteer]

The Nokian WR is 'H' rated and available in your size.  Not sure how good they would be in really deep snow but I drove a Honda Civic through a snowstorm in Toronto with those tires and they were awesome.  Nokian really does make some amazing winter products.  Aside from that I like the Pirelli from your list based on what I've read.

[morty]

How much is in the budget? All are very capable winter tires. If you want to maintain some handling (relative) then go with H-rated or better. Surprised you did not include the Michelin on your list after getting 45,000km on a set of winter tires. W300 is by far the best value and offers great winter performance and wear. The assymetric design adds to high-speed stability and handling. The Kumho KW17 also offers this design and I am a big fan.

[phil]

Thanks, Morty.  I didn't include the Pilot Alpins b/c I thought they were pretty average in terms of grip, especially on hardpack and ice--the predominant conditions on Edmonton roads. Plus they are very expensive.  I couldn't tell them from my summers, though, the ride was that good. 

I am willing to pay $140 a tire if it indeed is the best tire out there (such as the Blizzak).  If there is not much between tires, then the KW17 would be fine.  The car is mainly used by my wife for commuting and for shuffling our one year old around.  I'm not going to quibble over $100 if it means their safety.  I plan to hang on to the car another 2 or 3 yrs.

Maybe you can clarify a few points for me, as well as narrowing a recommendation.  What is the difference between the Blizzak L-22 and L-25?  Also, what does it mean that the IceBear is XL with an 89 (as opposed to 85) weightload?

Thanks tons.
Phil

 

[morty]

Interesting comments on the Pilot Alpin.

LM-25 is supposed to offer better wear and better we stability. Bridgestone claims the new rounder design contributes to better wet and dry handling. You will see the LM-22 slowly phased out with the LM-25 being the replacement. In most cases we recommend going with the newer tire, as if a problem occurs will be easier to find a tire.

The XL means Extra Load. This tire will carry more weight than other tires in the same size without the XL designation. Usually means a stiffer sidewall and tougher casing. Offers better handling and high-speed stability.

[phil]

I see.  Thanks.  I'm seriously considering the Blizzaks or the KW17.  Either go all out and get what many argue to be the best winter tires, or save $200 for still very good tires.  I'd appreciate others thoughts on these choices. 

As I said, I was so-so on the Alpins, and as long as I get tires better in slick conditions I'll be happy.  However, maybe the fact that they were so good on dry pavement meant that they were less grippy on slick stuff.  The EL is no sports car, so I'd happily give up a little bit of handling for better grip, although I don't think I'll drop below an H if the summers are V-rated. 

Phil

[morty]

Both tires are very good and capable. Really boils down to what you are comfortable purchasing. If you "think" the Bridgestone has $200 more value then it is a better purchase. If you want to save some money the KW17and W300 are wonderful winters. No compromise, just savings.

[phil]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies.  It seems to me that the crux of the debate is the tradeoff between grip and handling.  I took one of my Alpins to a few tire shops and was told that I had 7/32 of tread left, or around 55%.  Certainly enough to get me through the winter, or a least most of it.  None of them was interested in selling me (at significantly higher prices than TT) an H rated tire.  Instead, they suggested the Q rated X-Ice and Nokian RSI.  I was told that I wouldn't even notice the handling issue.  My disappointment with the Alpin was its lack of grip, but I highly doubt that I would not notice the driving difference with the X-Ice.  Maybe the Alpin is a very good tire for its speed rating, and I just want it all from one tire!!  I also suspect that the lightness of the EL has something to do with it.

I'm still leaning toward an H-rated tire, but am also concluding that most tires are very good these days, so why spend more on the Blizzak when the Icebear is just as capable?  I understand that 5/32 is about as low as one wants to go with the treadwear, so much will depend on when winter decides to hit Edmonton and I put on the tires (usually the end of Oct). 

Phil

 

[morty]

Doesnt everyone want it all? In this case like life, there are compromises. Thank the man I didnt make the one compromise and end up in a minivan Interesting to hear that no one wants to sell you an H-rated winter. We have had wonderful success with these types of tires in the urban winter. They work great because we mainly drive on wet/dry pavement with the intermittent dump of snow. H-rated are well mannered when there isnt snow and capable of handling the roads when there is. A nice compromise.

Performance of your Alpin could have some to do with weight, but we also have to remember to adjust our driving. Heavy on the pedals will make any tire slip in the snow.