Topic: Wheel Stud Broke while Torquing

[2JDM]

My buddy was over doing a winter tire swap for his 2019 Civic.

We ran into the following issues:

1) His lug nuts were wayyy too tight to loosen my hand using a breaker bar. On one lug nut, something slipped while trying to loosen one of the nuts and we heard a sharp noise. 

2) We get an impact wrench to loosen the bolts. This time it worked. Some nuts were very tight and it took a while for the wrench to loosen. All studs were intact, no issues.

3) Put on the tires/rims with no problems. Anti-seize on the contact points of the hub.

4) Retorqued to 88 lb ft. Found out after that OEM spec is 80. Loosened with the breaker bar and retorqued to 80.

5) All seemed to go well except one stud snapped! It happened to be on the wheel where we heard the noise. Not sure if it was the exact nut. 

What went wrong? Is it possible to "overtighen" using the torque wrench? Is my torque wrench un-calibrated? Defective stud?? 

[tortoise]

Seems to me it was weakened when you tried to remove it or when it was initially over torqued.

[rrocket]

Seems to me it was weakened when you tried to remove it or when it was initially over torqued.

This, possibly.

But I do wonder about the addition of anti-seize on the nuts/studs/mounting face.

The difference in torque is roughly 25 percent between Lubed vs. Dry.

EDIT: This article claims up to 40 percent difference. Which means on the extreme end the bolt could be over tightened by 40 percent! Allegedly.


"Obviously lubrication of threaded bolts has lots of benefits, but with it comes the overriding concern that the lubricant will change the torque required to develop proper tension on the bolt—and how that could affect the integrity of the joint. Some estimate that adding a lubricant could reduce the required torque reading by up to 40 percent.

So for example, let’s say a company has always used a torque of 100 ft-lbs to install a bolt in a certain application, and let’s say that that 100 ft-lbs was spec’d for use with dry threads with no lubricant. Then one day, an operator says, “Hey I read this article that said thread lubricant is good for the bolted joint to reduce wear, so I’m going to try it.”

But when they apply the lubricant and then use that same torque spec to tighten it down, they wonder why the threads got damaged or the bolt head broke off."

[EV Dan]

It happened to me once. The "mechanic" was a dumbass type who used an air impact wrench on everything. Half a year later, after a lugnut was obviously over-torqued it came off together with the lug. So I don't think you did anything wrong, it's just some places couldn't care enough to use a torque wrench.  One of the reasons I like doing wheel changes myself. Also, I heard on Motorweek that over-doing the lugnuts can warp rotors.

[Guy]

It happened to me once. The "mechanic" was a dumbass type who used an air impact wrench on everything. Half a year later, after a lugnut was obviously over-torqued it came off together with the lug. So I don't think you did anything wrong, it's just some places couldn't care enough to use a torque wrench.  One of the reasons I like doing wheel changes myself. Also, I heard on Motorweek that over-doing the lugnuts can warp rotors.

Yes, I heard that too.

[2JDM]

Seems to me it was weakened when you tried to remove it or when it was initially over torqued.

This, possibly.

But I do wonder about the addition of anti-seize on the nuts/studs/mounting face.

The difference in torque is roughly 25 percent between Lubed vs. Dry.

EDIT: This article claims up to 40 percent difference. Which means on the extreme end the bolt could be over tightened by 40 percent! Allegedly.


"Obviously lubrication of threaded bolts has lots of benefits, but with it comes the overriding concern that the lubricant will change the torque required to develop proper tension on the bolt—and how that could affect the integrity of the joint. Some estimate that adding a lubricant could reduce the required torque reading by up to 40 percent.

So for example, let’s say a company has always used a torque of 100 ft-lbs to install a bolt in a certain application, and let’s say that that 100 ft-lbs was spec’d for use with dry threads with no lubricant. Then one day, an operator says, “Hey I read this article that said thread lubricant is good for the bolted joint to reduce wear, so I’m going to try it.”

But when they apply the lubricant and then use that same torque spec to tighten it down, they wonder why the threads got damaged or the bolt head broke off."

Didn't use anti-seize on the threads/studs. Only the contact point which is OK from what I understand.

Anyways hes going to find a shop this week to get the stud replaced. Hes a bit paranoid now driving around hoping all his studs don't snap off...

[capriracer]

Didn't use anti-seize on the threads/studs. Only the contact point which is OK from what I understand. ……

I don't think that's right either.  The mounting surface of the lug nut contributes to the torque value.

I think antiseize is only supposed to be used on the mating surfaces between the wheel and the hub, not on the lugs or the lug nuts.

[tortoise]

Quote from: 1FGC on Yesterday at 04:12:29 pm

Didn't use anti-seize on the threads/studs. Only the contact point which is OK from what I understand. ……

I think antiseize is only supposed to be used on the mating surfaces between the wheel and the hub, not on the lugs or the lug nuts.

I think he is saying that is what he did.

[Blueprint]

I say blame whoever installed the wheels the last time around. Happened to me twice recently. Once with the Golf, whose service included a brake inspection, and the dealer overtorqued - I could not budge them at tire swap time. I brought all four mounted tires to the dealer and they swapped them for free, torquing with a proper torque wrench this time.

Then last year with the Audi - same thing, they removed the wheels during service and overtorqued. 3 came off, the last one the required torque was beyond what the lock nut could take and it stripped. Dealer managed to remove it and gave me a new set of Audi oem wheel locks. All free.

Just to complete the dealership picture - had Honda swap the wheels on the van as it was a no-charge item with the required service. Had my steelies, oem wheel covers and bag of special lug nuts with hubcap rings on them right in the back of the van. Told them too. Got home, noticed a missing wheel cover - they used the alloy nuts knowing very well that their own products have bolted-on wheel covers for more than a decade now  Popped the 3 remaining covers off, drove back to Honda and had them re-do the nuts and supply a correct new oem 2012 Odyssey LX wheel cover - all free.

Needless to say I swap tires myself, use a torque wrench and I have zero issues if nobody else touches the wheels.

[Arthur Dent]

Almost every mechanic I have every come across loves their air tools and torques the everlovingshite out of the wheel nuts. I once had a tire shop break about half the lug bolts on my Triumph Spitfire after I pleaded with them not to use the air tools. They could not even stop after breaking the first one. Idiots.